electric fan conversion
Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Model Specific Forum
Forum Name: 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
Forum Description: Technical discussion for 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=13543
Printed Date: 18-April-2024 at 5:48AM
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: electric fan conversion
Posted By: 73torino gt
Subject: electric fan conversion
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:28AM
| I was thinking about converting my 73 gran torino sport to an electric fan, anyone have the pros and cons of this?also what year vehicle could I get the set up from. |
Replies:
Posted By: GranTorinoSport
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:49AM
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Just did it myself. There are many options both with the fan itself and the power/control methods. First of all you will need to determine what size of fan you want. Do you need max cooling (are you running a big block stroker or something like that?) Many have used electric fans from the famous Mark VIII, also Ford Windstars and Taurus'. There are many aftermarket options as well. Spal and Flex-a-Lite both make good fans in a variety of sizes. For my 521 stroker, I started with a dual fan (flex-a-lite 330/340 I believe) and it wasn't quite enough. It would have been fine for a smaller motor, but just not up to the task of cooling a 521. I then moved to the largest fan I was able to fit against the radiator, a Flex-a-Lite 490. I decided to build my own fan controller because I wanted to over build it, and I wanted the ability to add customizations down the line. However there are many really good controllers, some by the major companies, Derale, Flex-a-Lite, etc, and some by smaller outfits (there is one that comes to mind that has been discussed here, but I can't remember the name). For a smaller motor and a faint heart when it comes to electrical things, I might recommend a Ford factory fan (Mark VIII can be a tight fit for some) and an aftermarket controller. BTW, I have my smaller Flex-a-Lite dual fan for sale, in case you were interested. ------------- Scott Eklund Webmaster |
Posted By: 73torino gt
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:58AM
| It would be for 351c that's been beefed up but nothing to crazy.I seen a kit on Dearborn for 400$.that seems a little nuts. |
Posted By: 73torino gt
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 6:59AM
| How much HP will u generally gain from switching? |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 7:18AM
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Not sure how much HP or MPG you may gain changing over to an electric fan(s), but I definitely noticed a difference in how fast my BB spooled up after exchanging the heavy clutch fan/fan clutch assembly. Installing an upgraded alternator(read 3G large case 130 amp alternator) is usually required. I went with a '98 Ford Windstar dual electric fan assembly in my Ranchero and would do it again in a heartbeat. Good luck, Todd ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: GranTorinoSport
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 7:30AM
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I didn't make the switch for more HP. I am not sure what the gain is, but prob minimal I would imagine. I did the switch for better control over temp. Quicker warmups, better cooling in traffic and other low speed conditions, etc. It is a smarter way to have your car setup, and much more modern-minded. But as you note, it is expensive. Not sure what you use your car for, but I do a ton of daily driver stuff with mine, so being able to sit in traffic on 405 on a 90 degree day and not worry about boiling over is good. Also being able to get warmed up quicker on cold winter days so I have heat on the way to work is another plus. ------------- Scott Eklund Webmaster |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 8:20AM
Scott, All good points here as well as in your first post in this thread. Living in central Fl.(with 95-100 degree weather and 90%+ humidity in summer), I can attest to the cooling abilities of a dual electric fan(and a 3 core all aluminum radiator). I can also say that when driving at speed with an electric fan(s) "correctly" mated to fan controller(s), there is no parasitic hp/mpg loss like when using a flex/clutch fan, so a little bump in useable power and a reasonable increase in mpg can be achieved. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
GranTorinoSport wrote:Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 9:53AM
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Looking at doing this myself. Are there any cons to using the bigger Mark VIII style on a single feed/speed set up. Those fans run a controller that runs a Low and a High speed, correct? What if I just hook it to a solenoid (that can handle the draw of course) so it just runs on full High only? ------------- Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME! 1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 10-March-2015 at 1:06PM
The only Con I saw while trying to install one on my ride was the depth of the whole unit, wouldn't work on my ride since I have a BB and all it's accessories. You can use the fan on High or Low only, no problem. You can use a screw-in sensor in the intake or T-stat housing that either has a positive or a negative trigger sent to the relay that turns the fan on for a "set it and forget it" system or just wire a switch inside the vehicle if a manual system is wanted. A 70amp relay will work fine, here is a pic, note the size of the Battery and Load terminals of the 70 amp relay on the left compared to a 30/40 amp "regular" Bosch style relay.  ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: SirDan89
Date Posted: 11-March-2015 at 5:34AM
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FWIW, my derale temp sensor bit the dust in under 6 months then shortly after the fuse holder that came with the kit melted. I don't think ill be using their products again to be honest. You will pick up some power but probably not enough to even feel. Highway mpgs will probably get a touch better. The real benefit is the engine warms up quicker, better for the engine and better for you as you'll spend less time waiting for warm air out the vents. I think OEM fans are the way to go if you can fit one in there. They had to go on thousands of cars and have to be reliable.
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Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 11-March-2015 at 6:05AM
I see that you are a new member so 1st let me say...Welcome to the forum! Which Derale fan controller and/or sensor were you using? I use 2 separate Derale 16749 fan controllers for my dual electric fans(1 for the smaller fan and the other controls the larger fan), these come with the "better" screw-in sensors and not the push-in type that goes into the radiator fins(never been a fan-pun intended-of this type of sensor). The "Molex" plug on the sensor where it attaches to the controller, don't seem to make the best connection. I used the 16749's to send a negative trigger to larger 70amp relays(as pictured above), the Derale unit's are limited to 25amps continuous duty rating(the main reason I went with larger relays). Doing it this way adds a little bit to the wiring duties but this install has been trouble free for over 2.5 years. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 25-October-2015 at 6:13AM
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I realize this topic has been idle for a while, just thought this info would be of some use to those wondering if there is a HP or mileage advantage/disadvantage when going with electric cooling fan(s). I can personally tell you it made a difference in the way my BBF runs, "spools up" and MPG returns. Some of the result figures are surprising. http://www.network54.com/Forum/215655/message/1066184641/Car+Craft+Cooling+Fan+Dyno+Test" rel="nofollow - http://www.network54.com/Forum/215655/message/1066184641/Car+Craft+Cooling+Fan+Dyno+Test ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 23-July-2016 at 10:41AM
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For those interested.... Found this posted somewhere https://www.hollisterroad.com/categories.php?cat=6 They have simple controllers and connectors for the Taurus and mark viii fans. I'm trying the 2000 windstar dual fan with a Dakota digital controller. http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=852/prd852.htm Anyone find a good spike suppression diode to limit the voltage transients from switching the fans on/off. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: Power Surge
Date Posted: 23-July-2016 at 2:52PM
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Here's another option.... Back when I used to design and produce parts for the Gen2 Lightnings, I developed an electric fan setup for them that worked awesome. I mounted an electric fan inside the opening of the STOCK radiator shroud using small metal brackets. It was wired up to a dual relay pack, where one relay was triggered when the AC was turned on, and the other relay was triggered by a 180* temperature switch tapped into the intake manifold coolant. So you retain the stock underhood look, and the large factory shroud allows the fan to pull more air across the radiator than the slim modern setups (this was CFM tested and confirmed). Just food for thought... ------------- Sal Mennella 73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 23-July-2016 at 3:24PM
Not trying to change your mind on the controller you chose, but a PWM controller would alleviate the start-up spikes since they ramp up the voltage to the fans based on temp instead of 100% on and 100% off. If my set-up gives me any issues I will try one of these or something similar from another manufacturer: http://derale.com/products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm-controller" rel="nofollow - http://derale.com/products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm-controller Good luck ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 23-July-2016 at 4:34PM
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Thx... A variable speed fan will help...but you still get switching transients. Lower amplitude but more of them and continuous. I was thinking two speed with two fans to keep the controller simpler. I think installing transient suppressor would be a good idea no matter which type fan or electric water pump. You also get alot of transients from the alternator. Not a big deal with vintage car circuits except when you start installing things like electronic ignitions and fuel injection Here is a reference http://www.interferencetechnology.com/transient-voltage-suppressors-tvs-for-automotive-electronic-protection-2/ The voltage regulator provides some suppression of transients from the alternator now we add relay switching 10 to 50 amps after the regulator. I believe suppression is needed where the fans connect to the main line battery power Mmm....definitely advantages with a pwm setup...has me rethinking the plan ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: Regul8r 2
Date Posted: 23-July-2016 at 6:02PM
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Page 29 covers the electric fans I put in Lola... http://forum.grantorinosport.org/lola-mae_topic10150_page29.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.grantorinosport.org/lola-mae_topic10150_page29.html I did this to add EXTRA cooling when cruising, hot days and towing. My stock fan does not rob enough power for me to worry about and the noise? Well, IF the noise of a fan irritates you then you are probably driving the wrong car... I hear Hyundai and Kia are the quietest on the market today and reasonably priced. lol ------------- Carl, Member/Admin since 07. Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space. Owner- www.CaNDeCustoms.com |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 23-July-2016 at 11:50PM
I didn't install a suppression diode when installing my Windstar fans but I did install a factory Ford diode between the +/- fan leads to keep the fans from generating electricity and/or back feeding the electric system when they are "free wheeling" at any mph while they aren't being energized by the controllers. This diode may also help with the suppression, but not intentionally installed for that purpose. I used a Ford diode you can find in 80'/90's junkyard vehicles, part #F2TF-14A604-AA, I get them by the hand full for just a few bucks. Easily wired into the system due to the spade connectors, cheap to replace, but never had to replace the first one. I used this diagram as an example of the installation: http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjylJjX9ovOAhWMmR4KHdceD5UQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fordmuscle.com%2Farchives%2F2003%2F02%2Felectricfan%2F&bvm=bv.127984354,d.dmo&psig=AFQjCNFtS6v9O4-Ha24ZYbjM6sDBoGs7mg&ust=1469443745307687" rel="nofollow">  Hope this info is helpful. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 12:10AM
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That is helpful. Thanks. You are 100% correct in putting that diode in to protect the circuit. Its a back EMF protection diode to prevent a reverse voltage from getting applied from the fan spinning or on/off control where the field in the motor's coil collapses and sends a negative voltage spike onto the return path. Also, in this implementation using a relay to switch the fan rather than a FET will shorten the lifetime of that relay significantly. Relays will have a limited number of cycles. If going the PWM route it would be advisable to implement a FET switch with the proper heatsinking to insure reliable service. A properly designed FET circuit would outlive the car. If you can find the datasheet for that Bosch relay the expected lifetime could be calculated. It should provided the number of cycles it was design for in the datasheet. Is that fan controller a pwm controller? If it's not then your relay should be ok. That diode is a great part to use with these mods...thanks for that reverse protection idea. Now just have to find a supply somewhere. Where did you find it on the salvaged car and which car? I have terrible boneyards around me due to the political incorrectness of a salvage yard. I live to close to the political mecca of teh US. Here is a nice write up on the pros/cons... http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/PWMControl.html ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 12:30AM
I used the diagram as a tutorial only, on mine I used 70amp relays due to my Derale controllers only being able to sustain 25amp continuous duty without an issue(maybe). Basically the Derale is the temperature controlled negative trigger for the heavier duty 70amp relays. If the 70amp relays give me any BS I would remove them and install some PAC-80's. IIRC, I found the diodes on '92-'93 Ford Aerostar's or possibly Explorers in their respected under hood fuse panel/box. I should have "really" looked at the part number, F2 is date code for '92+..... . If you can't find them locally I may have a few laying around, send me a PM with address and I'll send you a pair. I have a BUNCH of the smaller black diodes just not sure if they are robust enough for the application.
------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 12:27PM
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This is very interesting... http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/PWMControl.html http://www.autocoolguy.com/#!auto-cool-rt/caot I may try it. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: Power Surge
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 2:08PM
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I'm a bit curious why you are so concerned with pulse width and startup voltage spikes? ------------- Sal Mennella 73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
Posted By: Regul8r 2
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 3:43PM
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the Windstar and the Mark VIII fans draw A HUGE power spike on initial start up that cause havoc if you do not have them wired correctly. ------------- Carl, Member/Admin since 07. Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space. Owner- www.CaNDeCustoms.com |
Posted By: Power Surge
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 4:01PM
What kind of havoc? I have used both of those fan setups for years with simple relays with no problems. Even the OE wiring setup is just relays... ------------- Sal Mennella 73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
Posted By: Regul8r 2
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 7:23PM
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by Havoc I mean, headlight dim, overheating wires if not proper gage used, overloading the old 40 and 60 amp alternators. More of an issue if you are just slapping them in an old parts full old wiring car without doing SOME upgrading and prep work. ------------- Carl, Member/Admin since 07. Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space. Owner- www.CaNDeCustoms.com |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 24-July-2016 at 7:32PM
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This controller is pretty nice. Does two fans and controls an electric water pump. Alot of nice features but it is pretty expensive. $264 w shipping. Not sure about the advantage. 200 bucks buys alot of relays. http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.com/PWMControl.html http://www.autocoolguy.com/#!auto-cool-rt/caot ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 27-July-2016 at 5:25PM
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Tried a 2002 Crown vic fan; it was close but to deep 2002 Windstar dual fan; to wide will require quite a bit of mods I'm running out of options. I guess the 95 Taurus fan. Anyone tried a 2014 Taurus fan? Looks like it might fit. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: russosborne
Date Posted: 27-July-2016 at 5:29PM
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John, I have a 351C and the Lincoln MKVIII fan just fits with about a half inch to an inch between it and the water pump. Cools like crazy. Fits on the radiator like it was designed to be there. But on a bigger engine it might not fit. Don't know.  Russ |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 28-July-2016 at 12:01AM
I use a '95-'98 model Windstar fan assembly and I had to trim the shrouding where the trans lines are, the upper and lower radiator hose locations and the lower drain. I also used a piece of 1/8"x 3/4" galvanized flat stock stiffen the top of the assembly where the top mounts are located, attached it will 3/16" rivets and made the two "L" brackets to fit into the factory receiver bracket at the bottom of the core support. Not sure if the '99-'03 Windstar assemblies are wider and/or deeper. I also used a Champion all aluminum 3 core, here are some pics of the radiator/fan assembly:      This dual electric fan assembly has absolutely no problem keeping my 472" BBF cool in central Florida heat even when using the A/C and stuck in traffic. Hope these are helpful. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 28-July-2016 at 12:08AM
Yep, those Mark VIII fans are THE BEST SINGLE OEM fan out there, believe me I tried to install one on my ride. I found that the Mark VIII would not fit mine with a BBF and A/C without major mods to core support/radiator brackets. Did you also upgrade to 3G large case alternator or at least get a larger, more powerful unit? ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 28-July-2016 at 1:51AM
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I'm sticking with the 351C but plan on building it up. I wanted to have ample cooling capacity for the future. I'm in the process of converting to a 3G 138Amp Alternator. I overlooked that initially. My original plan was to go with a mark8 fan but I can't find a mark8 fan anywhere... No new assemblies and a few overpriced used ones. The 2002 Crown Vic fan looks almost like it except the shroud is larger. I think its the same "basic" fan adapted to a newer model. I wish that I took some pics. I have a 351C and it hits squarely on the water pump but otherwise fit the size of the radiator. 2002 Vic fan has the resistor built in the assembly and is a 2 speed on the large fan. 2003 Crown vic and new looked like a PWM control. The Windstar Fan I tried is the same size/shape as the one mention above. It could work as mentioned...but would require cutting reliefs for the inlet and outlet plumbing and around the trans lines. So its definitely an option for those willing to give it a try. The fan I tried was a Motorcraft RF95 unit. The same basic fan is on the Freestyle going back to the early Windstar models. This fan has a small single speed fan and the larger fan has a 3 terminal connector; looks like a 2 speed. The newer models progressed to PWM control. I didn't dive into the electrics because I will design/fix that when I find a fan I like to stick with. The 2014 dual fan found on the Taurus is the same one used on the Police Interceptor. It looks like it might fit, but I can't find dimensions online. Was hoping someone had looked into it. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 28-July-2016 at 3:18AM
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Also look for a 2-speed single electric fan assembly out of a '94-'97 Cougar/Thunderbird, work great and have "almost" the same cooling capacity of a Mark VIII assembly. You may be able to "get" away with a single fan, I didn't want to risk it with a BB and A/C, the caveat is the dual fan assembly fits WAY better than the single for my application. Good luck and post some pics. FWIW, a stock 130amp 3G large case alternator puts out around 80 amps at idle(about 1200 alternator pulley rpms) and up to 160 amps at full tilt, so they are a little under rated. The aftermarket rebuilds (AZ/Advanced/O'Reilly)may be a little under this due to not using/rebuilding with the best parts. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 28-July-2016 at 5:10AM
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Thanks for all the info! Really helps to learn from others experiences. I got a new Bosch alternator. Good quality and good experiences using them on other cars in the past. I figured 138 Amp was the marketing number. That why I went with that rather than the 100amp one. Can't ever have to much power :-) ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: mcford
Date Posted: 28-July-2016 at 6:08AM
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CROWN VIC fan works with a cleveland. you mount it in the factory 72/73 shroud. I have pictures at home, I'll have to find them, tonight. ------------- Mike |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 29-July-2016 at 3:08AM
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I dont want to cut up the old schroud. Just in case I want to swap it back. Also the shroud is 40years old. Brittle and cracking. I'm looking for a good "new" fan that I can replace easily if it fails and not run into part obsolence issues. Looked at aftermarket fans and they are rather pricey. The only aftermarket fan that looks descent and not break the bank was a flex-a-lite black magic fan (180#) I think someone already mentioned it on this thread. So far the best fitting fan was that Windstar fan. The Crown Vic fan was to tall...I could cut down the height to gain an inch or so...just seems like more work than necessary. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: mcford
Date Posted: 29-July-2016 at 5:41AM
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Couldn't find the pictures last night and I could have sworn I took some of the fan setup. I have an exterior picture of the car but noting else. His name was Jim Batie. From Washington state. Used a 92-97 CV/GM/TC fan. No trimming of your original shroud. It fits right in the opening and he attached it to the shroud with 6 or 8 rivets or bolts. ------------- Mike |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 6:41AM
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There's a guy about 2 hours away from me selling a pair of Lincoln Mk VIIIs for parts, he has fans in both. I'm going to go check one out and see what they look like and if they would fit on my 72 Montego. Of course first I have to finish the alternator upgrade... ------------- 72 Montego MX Wagon |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 6:44AM
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Cool...share some pics :-) From what I read teh mark8 fan was 19" tall. I'm not sure how to mount it on our radiator. Can't find any pics or install details. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 7:10AM
Any more pics showing how you mounted it? Its definitely close but fits with a 351C. Its hard to find this fan now. Not making any new ones and everyone from 4wheelers to hot rodders using up the supply. I want to find an equivalent replacement. The closest to the mark8 fan was that Crown vic fan. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 7:27AM
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When I get up to see the guy who has the 2 MK VIIIs if I pick up one fan for me I can certainly pick up the other fan too and ship it. he is asking $150 Canadian for the fan, that's about $120 USD (but of course I'll try and work him down from that price.) ------------- 72 Montego MX Wagon |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 8:59AM
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Thats so pricey now for a used fan. Buy a used fan and it may fail in a month. Hard to get a replacement. Thats the problem with the market right now the supply isn't there. Need to find a good alternative; windstar looks the best so far. Continuing the search. FYI... 2002 crown vic fan vs stock: http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/jj27606/media/20160722_165958.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/jj27606/media/20160722_170136.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Windstar fan vs stock: http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/jj27606/media/20160728_071510.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/jj27606/media/20160728_071712.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 9:12AM
------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: russosborne
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 9:51AM
Here is how I did it. 4 little bolts/nuts. Had to drill a couple of holes but nothing difficult. I left the stock tabs on the fan, didn't want to modify it yet. This was a quick install to get the car on the road. Sooner or later I will probably trim it up. Remember, these are a two speed fan, so you would need a two speed controller or two one speed controllers. I just have one controller, don't need both speeds as of yet. I've tried it on both, the high speed is insane.  I also have not yet upgraded to the 3G alt. It will work this way, but the 3g would be better. It's on the list. And you can get replacement motors for these. The reason everyone is using these is because they are hands down the absolute best electric fan around. As long as it fits the radiator, which for us is not an issue. Russ  |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 30-July-2016 at 2:42PM
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They have motors available for the '96 and earlier 2-speed Mark VIII fan but not the higher 2-speed fans that went on a '97 or '98, just an FYI. The closest single electric fan to a Mark VIII fan is one that fits a '94-'97 T-bird/Cougar, it is a 2-speed unit with about an 18" fan blade. Here is some useful info that may clear up a few things: http://forums.tccoa.com/6-general-tech/136722-ultimate-mark-viii-fan-thread.html" rel="nofollow - http://forums.tccoa.com/6-general-tech/136722-ultimate-mark-viii-fan-thread.html As far as a 3G alternator upgrade, get the 130amp large case, not the small case 95amp 3G, due to the large case puts out more amperage @ idle and everywhere else in the rpm band. One that will just about be a direct bolt-in is a 3G from a '94 Taurus w/ 3.0, LESTER #7765. This alternator is "clocked" correctly for wiring access. There are probably other applications that will work just as good but this is what I found worked great for my application. Good luck. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 31-July-2016 at 12:22AM
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Thats helpful information. Here are some relay and PWM controllers I found with reviews on the net of guys that are using them. I like how they are built. The PWM controllers are sealed/potted, good sized heat sinks, over current and over temp protection. He is using oversized high current transistors in the design. http://www.dccontrol.com/
------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 31-July-2016 at 12:26AM
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Russ, I can see the top, looks like some basic angle iron to create tabs to mount in the stock upper location How did you mount the bottom of the fan? ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 31-July-2016 at 1:08AM
I have heard the PWM controllers he builds are of good quality, but the wait times to get them are fairly long. If I was to change to a PWM controller and not use a Derale unit I would definitely go with one from here http://www.autocoolguy.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.autocoolguy.com/ , at least the 85 amp version but probably the 125amp just for overkill. The PWM controllers do have advantages, but you may be over-thinking this a bit, the stock 70amp relays I have been using have been rock solid for over 3 years. Dorman makes a very reasonable priced aftermarket electric fan for the Windstar, so you don't need to use a dated/used part. Again, good luck with your choices.
------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 31-July-2016 at 12:55PM
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Yeah...im coming to that same conclusion. I like the idea of a mark8 fan, but its a 20year old fan. Plastic wears out...becomes brittle..cracks breaks; not just the motor. If you can get your hands on a mark8 fan for a reasonable price and get a spare then I think its still a good option. For me, salvage yards around here are horrible. I'm not going to pay $150+ for a fan that is really worth $40-60 used. I can get the windstar dual fan for $100 for a new fan and not have any problems in the future trying to source the part. Look how many minivan are out there. I'll be dead before this part becomes scarce. Now its just figure out the fan controller options; weight the trades. Thanks for all the help guys. I have to finish installing my clutch pedals and getting the car back together before I finish the fan. Prolly do it in a month... 2 tops. ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: russosborne
Date Posted: 01-August-2016 at 1:10PM
For the top I just used a couple of little L shaped brackets I found in our leftover hardware jar. The lowers I just drilled the fan housing to match up with some holes on the radiator. the first picture is of the front of the bottom of the radiator, just to show where I did it (but on the rear part) Hope this helps. Russ   Russ  |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 01-August-2016 at 3:33PM
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Those mark8 fans really do fit well on these torinos, almost like they were designed for the car.
Update: Found Mark8 replacements or at least close as possible T-bird LX 94-97 Cougar XR-7 94-97: True 2 speed 18" fan. Same blades and housing as on mark8 fan. You can still get these fans new. Found them on rockauto and amazon. Motorcraft RF24 DORMAN 620118 FOUR SEASONS 75627 Ordered the Four seasons fan and decided to go with the 2 speed controller. Simple proven setup. Will probably get hollisters 2 speed controller with the built in diodes. Edit: just received the Cougar fan and uses the same connector as the Mark8 fan and looks just like the pics Russ posted. Still a nice quality unit. I'm gonna run with it. I think it will have enough capacity for my plans. I'm not running a big block. I looked at doing the controller myself using Bosch relays or a Volvo relay setup, connectors, and BMW 2 speed sensor. I can't build it for much less (using quality parts) than the Hollister setup. I'm gonna give his design a try. https://www.hollisterroad.com/products.php?cat=8 ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 05-August-2016 at 8:44AM
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Always late to the party and everyone drank all the beer! Found another link that already came to the same conclusions. http://forum.grantorinosport.org/mark-8-electric-fan-install_topic9175.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.grantorinosport.org/mark-8-electric-fan-install_topic9175.html ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: gnrlee01
Date Posted: 04-October-2016 at 2:40PM
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i see you all are running smallblocks on this thread. is anyone here running a 460 or bigger and is in a constantly hotter climate area, like florida or anywhere down south? if so, what all did you use to achieve the electric fan conversion and what should i begin looking for? ------------- 74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 04-October-2016 at 3:13PM
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todd (aquartlow) is running a stroked out big block and he lives in florida!!!
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 05-October-2016 at 12:04AM
Thank you John, for mentioning me/my ride  . Gnrlee01, I will say I would definitely do the conversion again, but there is a good bit of work involved (to do it correctly and not have any continuing issues) for a successful and reliable install. A large case 130amp 3G alternator is 1st on the list, a dual electric fan assembly is really a must with a vehicle with A/C and/or living in any southern state to get the most cooling fan CFM, HD relays, adjustable fan controllers, wiring-LOTS OF WIRING, are just a few things to deal with. A few things I have noticed is how much faster engine "spool-up" is, the 1-2 gain in mpg and how cold my A/C is now(just can't drive a bunch in central Fl. without A/C).
------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: 05-October-2016 at 1:13AM
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What electric fan did you go with, Windstar dual or something else? What fan controllers did you use? ------------- 72 Montego MX Wagon |
Posted By: gnrlee01
Date Posted: 05-October-2016 at 5:10AM
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yeah, do you have any specific part info, like from what year/make/model of vehicle any donor parts came from and/or any part numbers that you had to get for new parts? any pics on what got wired and into where? wiring is like greek to me...  ------------- 74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 05-October-2016 at 11:53AM
For my conversion I used a dual electric fan assembly for a '95-'98 Ford Windstar, due to the electric fan motors fit on either side of the BBF water pump. I replaced my original 3 core copper/brass rad with an all aluminum Champion 3 core, just because the original was on it's last legs. This pic shows how the dual electric fan assembly fits the Champion rad. Here are the Derale fan controllers I used for adjusting the ON/OFF cycle temps, these have relays that are "only" rated for 25 amps so I use the controllers to "trigger" much more robust 70amp HD relays(note spade width difference on the 70amp relay on left as compared to a "regular" 30/40 amp Bosch relay), couple of pics of what I used. When the large fan comes on I have recorded a momentary 64 amp spike and a continuous running 23 amp reading using my Southwire AC/DC clamp meter.  In order to facilitate easier (+)power wiring/cabling upgrades, I installed this fuse panel/block from a foreign vehicle(I believe a Mitsubishi or Hyundai), makes future upgrades or distribution needs much easier(I use this to power my electric fuel pump, electric fans & controllers, headlight relays-hi & low beams, horn relay, cornering light relays, aftermarket ignition and A/C compressor relay). The ANL fuse holder an 0ga cable goes to amplifiers  .  These pics were taken before I "cleaned" up the cabling a bit, shows the fuse panel's cover to conceal the fuses. The fuse holder on the battery hold down is rated at 120 amps, it powers/protects the fuse panel.  Like I stated in my previous reply, LOTS of wiring, but mine has been rock solid reliable. Hope this is helpful. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: gnrlee01
Date Posted: 05-October-2016 at 12:01PM
wow!!!  you werent kidding...i think i may have to gather up all my parts for this mod and just wait till i get down to florida to hit you up for some electrical teaching lessons.  ------------- 74 gts 460/auto with factory sunroof |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 05-October-2016 at 12:43PM
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The 3G install required the other ANL fuse/fuse holder and 4ga cable, so that added to some of the wiring in the pic. Some of the wiring could be eliminated if you use pre-set turn-on sensors instead of the adjustable controllers, like a 185 turn on/175 turn off sensor which could be wired directly to a 70amp relay as a trigger for each fan. I would have went this route but I chose to control the exact temp I wanted and/or have the adjustability. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 19-June-2017 at 8:39PM
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Now I have the 97 cougar fan installed with 2 speed controller. Noticed my radiator has small leak so bought that 3 core champion radiator.... Radiator basically fits except it's loose in the mounts. What rubber isolators or brackets dud you use to hold the champion radiator? ------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 19-June-2017 at 11:55PM
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The upper mounts can be easily "tweaked" to fit the top "rail" mounts of the Champion radiator more snugly. I actually needed to do this and drill a new mounting hole in my upper mounts to pull the radiator closer to the front core support, I then welded up the original holes and painted the brackets. Having a big block really limits the available room forward of the water pump. If you Google images for the upper mounts you can see there are differences in the stock top bracket mounting angles, some are bent more than others, no rhyme or reason. ------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 20-June-2017 at 12:12AM
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What about the rubber isolators? The champion mounts are smaller which allows the radiator to slide around in the rubber mounts as compared to the original. Even the bottom mounts. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptp-7-1711-bl?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-prothane-motion-control&gclid=CjwKEAjw7J3KBRCxv93Q3KSukXQSJADzFzVSct7-_9_0_OwSpoipHSUKzPss9ITzMNz7-AQF7_L-EhoCFsLw_wcB" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptp-7-1711-bl?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-prothane-motion-control&gclid=CjwKEAjw7J3KBRCxv93Q3KSukXQSJADzFzVSct7-_9_0_OwSpoipHSUKzPss9ITzMNz7-AQF7_L-EhoCFsLw_wcB http://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/spectra+premium/cooling+depot,BSH3503K,radiator+mount,11583" rel="nofollow - http://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/spectra+premium/cooling+depot,BSH3503K,radiator+mount,11583 I tried looking at various substitutes including bronco mounts, rubber isolators from international harvester, etc etc. I can't seem to find anything that fits it properly. for the upper it looks like a chevy top radiator support might be adapted... this one is for a chevy truck..its 30" wide which looks like it may fit an allow using rubber isolators to be adapted https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-9673" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-9673 http://www.hedman.com/radiator" rel="nofollow - http://www.hedman.com/radiator 9426 or 9673 I guess I could cut the uppers to shorten them to fit..reweld. I see what you mean by pulling them in...but the champion radioator litterally flops around inside the channel of the brackets. If you need to replace the rubber what can you use? Especially for the lowers...
------------- -John 1973 GTS |
Posted By: stanman
Date Posted: 20-June-2017 at 12:54AM
| Could you add some liquid urethane like they use for windshields in the original mounts? Put some sandwich wrap or similar on the radiator where it touches the urethane. Set the radiator in place and leave it to cure for a day or so. Lift the rad out and remove the plastic and trim the urethane where necessary. BOOM! Custom mounts. |
Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 20-June-2017 at 1:02AM
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The lower mounts are getting hard to find, to say the least. A "shade tree" fix that would work is to use a 3-4"(long enough to fit inside lower core support) piece of 5/8 or 3/4" heater hose and slit one side so the HH will grip the lower radiator "rail", then set the radiator with the heater hoses attached into the original lower radiator mounts. Doing this will also raise the radiator a bit and possibly help with the upper mount looseness, but will really help with having an extra "cushion" for the bottom mounting rails. IIRC, Before I bent my upper mounts(it doesn't take much), my Champion radiator was loose as well. My Champion radiator's installed height is just about even/level with my core support using just the original stock lower radiator insulators. This pic may be helpful showing how much I bent my upper brackets to fit radiator, you can still see the original mounting holes in this bracket before I welded the hole up, I moved the brackets forward on the core support about 1/2-3/4". http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/1047689_1" rel="nofollow">
------------- www.supermotors.net/22468 Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 20-June-2017 at 1:02AM
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Sounds like an idea...I probably should post a new thread on this. All the other aluminum radiator threads were closed. Here is a pic of the mount and how much slop is between the radiator and mounting bracket. http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/jj27606/media/20170616_183324.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- -John 1973 GTS |