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Holley Sniper EFI in my 73

Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Model Specific Forum
Forum Name: 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
Forum Description: Technical discussion for 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
URL: http://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=16564
Printed Date: 16-July-2018 at 3:13AM
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Holley Sniper EFI in my 73
Posted By: geno8769
Subject: Holley Sniper EFI in my 73
Date Posted: 23-September-2017 at 11:10PM
Continuing Saga of My Holley Sniper EFI install. 




Take a look at my video's to date .



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1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769



Replies:
Posted By: GranTorinoMan
Date Posted: 24-September-2017 at 7:28AM
I was wondering if you established your peak engine HP / Torque numbers before your EFI install? It would be interesting to see what power gains you achieve after its dialed in.


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 28-September-2017 at 5:07AM
I didnt. But most of the reviews that I read said they made almost the same horsepower. You just get a bunch of added benefits with it..




-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 28-September-2017 at 8:04AM
Next video....

 




-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: GranTorinoMan
Date Posted: 03-December-2017 at 4:51AM
The effort to install EFI is great but as you say the benefits is the payoff, especially if you don't want the smell of gas on you. My brother was a big Quadrajet carburetor fan and he really knew how to dial them in. What I didn't like was the smell of gas and carb cleaner spray around him and his work bench. 


Posted By: 72GTS351CJ
Date Posted: 03-December-2017 at 12:42PM
Last I looked they were in the 2000 dollar range. Now at 1200 or so they have my attention. Reviews are outstanding !! Installations looks very easy. I might be on the phone with Summit Racing real soon

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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special                                     


Posted By: havanariviera
Date Posted: 03-December-2017 at 1:28PM
My 72 had a brand new FAST EZ EFI professionally installed shortly before I got it. Based on the receipt provided, it was $2,500 at the time for the kit, with a two day install that cost an additional $2,000. I liked the concept initially; dependable start, smooth idle, better mileage, modern, self-tuning, digital tach, etc. All sounds great, and worked well - until it didn't. Even when installed properly, the sensors can fail, the self-tuning feature on the screen can get corrupted, go blue and freeze (like any computer), and so on. If there is excess emission from some unrelated cause, or exhaust that's outside of the specified range - eventually, (and without warning) it could foul out the sensor. When that happens, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get the car going again, no way to override. My car was towed twice in three years, both times were because of failed EFI. Had a different mechanic evaluate it, retune it, seemed to work for 6 months before it failed again. FAST tried to troubleshoot it multiple times, sent out an entirely new kit, and it failed too. Needless to say, my experience with EFI has created a skeptic in me. My mechanic put a Holley 625 carb on in it's place and I haven't looked back. Something to keep in mind, especially if traveling long distance. If the carb has issues, a mallet and a screwdriver will probably help it along just enough so you can nurse it back home for a proper repair. In contrast, if an EFI component fails, you're stuck. That's my two cents; again - this was a FAST EZ EFI, but as I look at it now - the car was born with a carb, and there are two many variables that have to all work together seamlessly (at all times, for the duration of the system's presence) to be assured of reliability. 


Posted By: 72GTS351CJ
Date Posted: 03-December-2017 at 1:44PM
Thanks for chiming in. Maybe I'll sit back and wait a bit to see some reviews a year from now. Don't like being stranded helpless

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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special                                     


Posted By: ilyes
Date Posted: 03-December-2017 at 3:04PM
Installed one a few weeks ago. I like it better than fast, hands down. The interface is better than fast and fitech, though a bit harder to set up the parameters the first time. The harness bulk is about the same size as the Fast, Fitech is a lot let.

Now, after driving all 3, I like the fitech and Holley the most. Fast is inconsistent on hot starts, especially on lower vacuum engine.


Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 03-December-2017 at 4:39PM
Originally posted by havanariviera havanariviera wrote:

My 72 had a brand new FAST EZ EFI professionally installed shortly before I got it. Based on the receipt provided, it was $2,500 at the time for the kit, with a two day install that cost an additional $2,000. I liked the concept initially; dependable start, smooth idle, better mileage, modern, self-tuning, digital tach, etc. All sounds great, and worked well - until it didn't. Even when installed properly, the sensors can fail, the self-tuning feature on the screen can get corrupted, go blue and freeze (like any computer), and so on. If there is excess emission from some unrelated cause, or exhaust that's outside of the specified range - eventually, (and without warning) it could foul out the sensor. When that happens, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get the car going again, no way to override. My car was towed twice in three years, both times were because of failed EFI. Had a different mechanic evaluate it, retune it, seemed to work for 6 months before it failed again. FAST tried to troubleshoot it multiple times, sent out an entirely new kit, and it failed too. Needless to say, my experience with EFI has created a skeptic in me. My mechanic put a Holley 625 carb on in it's place and I haven't looked back. Something to keep in mind, especially if traveling long distance. If the carb has issues, a mallet and a screwdriver will probably help it along just enough so you can nurse it back home for a proper repair. In contrast, if an EFI component fails, you're stuck. That's my two cents; again - this was a FAST EZ EFI, but as I look at it now - the car was born with a carb, and there are two many variables that have to all work together seamlessly (at all times, for the duration of the system's presence) to be assured of reliability. 
THIS^^^^ that's exactly why i prefer carbs and older cars!!!!
 had an issue with my blazer and the EFI, got tired of throwing parts and money at it! put a edelbrock intake and holley carb on it with an older stand along HEI!!! no more issues!!!!Wink


-------------
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION


Posted By: aquartlow
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 12:54AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

Originally posted by havanariviera havanariviera wrote:

My 72 had a brand new FAST EZ EFI professionally installed shortly before I got it. Based on the receipt provided, it was $2,500 at the time for the kit, with a two day install that cost an additional $2,000. I liked the concept initially; dependable start, smooth idle, better mileage, modern, self-tuning, digital tach, etc. All sounds great, and worked well - until it didn't. Even when installed properly, the sensors can fail, the self-tuning feature on the screen can get corrupted, go blue and freeze (like any computer), and so on. If there is excess emission from some unrelated cause, or exhaust that's outside of the specified range - eventually, (and without warning) it could foul out the sensor. When that happens, there is absolutely nothing you can do to get the car going again, no way to override. My car was towed twice in three years, both times were because of failed EFI. Had a different mechanic evaluate it, retune it, seemed to work for 6 months before it failed again. FAST tried to troubleshoot it multiple times, sent out an entirely new kit, and it failed too. Needless to say, my experience with EFI has created a skeptic in me. My mechanic put a Holley 625 carb on in it's place and I haven't looked back. Something to keep in mind, especially if traveling long distance. If the carb has issues, a mallet and a screwdriver will probably help it along just enough so you can nurse it back home for a proper repair. In contrast, if an EFI component fails, you're stuck. That's my two cents; again - this was a FAST EZ EFI, but as I look at it now - the car was born with a carb, and there are two many variables that have to all work together seamlessly (at all times, for the duration of the system's presence) to be assured of reliability. 
THIS^^^^ that's exactly why i prefer carbs and older cars!!!!
 had an issue with my blazer and the EFI, got tired of throwing parts and money at it! put a edelbrock intake and holley carb on it with an older stand along HEI!!! no more issues!!!!Wink
X3 for me as well. I REALLY wanted to do EFI for a long while on my ride, ever since the 1st Holley Pro-jection units came out about 25 years ago. Those were very unreliable for whatever reasons, either sensor, software or installation. Now with the fairly affordable new crop of self tuning EFI in the recent years the urge to change-over was even greater, but I again procrastinated and thus just installed a wideband which allows me to get my Holley carbs tuned for my engine's needs. The results are good(maybe not to the extent of EFI) and can be tuned and/or fixed by me on the side of the road if the need arises. The self learning EFI systems are(on paper) great, but potential issues arise by either failures with the units, sensors, installation short-falls or a combination of all these and also unseen, overlooked or unfathomable factors.
  Another issue that I have heard/read about that sorta surprised me is simply an older engine that uses umbrella valve seals instead of the more modern positive control valve seals, these older umbrella seals allow a bit of oil to bypass the valve stems and screws with the tuning and/or an O2 sensor's accuracy/longevity. I wonder if this situation is being brought to a potential customer's attention, before the product is bought. I realize this isn't the fault of the self learning EFI units, but it should be presented in the installation discussion to allow more a positive experience and/or longer lasting benefits.  
  I seriously hope the OP gets his Holley Sniper system figured out and it does run well for him, so he can reap the benefits for years to come.  


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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.


Posted By: havanariviera
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 2:15AM
Agreed, it just seems to me (I can't work on cars, so I have all my work professionally done) that unless the old car is extremely tight in every way possible, issues are inevitable. As mentioned in the post above, "older umbrella seals allow a bit of oil to bypass valve stems and screws" and potentially interfere with self-tuning, sensors, etc. This is a perfect example in my case of why the EFI would operate without issue for months at a time, and then fail without warning. In one of the situations, I drove 50 miles with no symptoms; parked for 5 minutes to go in and get a soda at a convenience store, came out and got nothing. It was trying to turn over, but just wasn't getting any fuel/air mixture to start back up. When a carb is going bad or need to be retuned, rebuilt - you'd likely experience a rough idle or some other symptom that indicates you need to address it. With the FAST EZ EFI, like I said - fine one minute, left me stranded the next minute. The other oddity is that the screen would indicate errors when none were present, you'd have to consult the manual or call FAST to understand, address, and clear the error code. The concept of self tuning does sound good on paper, but it's basing the actions on the conditions present as gleaned from the sensors. One day it would be running so rich, there would be soot coming out of the tailpipes, and without manual adjusting it on the touch screen, I'd keep driving so the system could "learn" - you're encouraged to do that. So then it would self adjust, and the next day I'd be getting lean pop any time I accelerated. The other thing as I alluded in my post, if you're out and something fails on the carb or other related component, you can probably stop in an auto parts store or even a garage and get the minimal parts needed or a quick repair that will get you home. With EFI, there is no such thing as stopping into the nearest Autozone and buying a new, compatible O2 sensor if it were to fail and you're 50 miles from home. For me, this is less of a critique of the FAST system, and more on bolt on EFI in general. I'm sure there are plenty of guys who have had good luck and no issues. For my car, it just wasn't a match and I wasn't going to continue to pour money into a system that I had no faith in. With the Holley 625 and the 4V Edelbrock intake, the car runs great - the idle is just as smooth as EFI, never runs rich, no lean pop - the only thing missing is better gas mileage. But I'll pay extra fuel costs to avoid the risk of running an unreliable EFI setup that has the potential (twice demonstrated in my case) of leaving me stranded with no options other than a tow.


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 8:34AM
Originally posted by geno8769 geno8769 wrote:

Next video....

 
Thanks for sharing these videos. They are a great resource for the forum.
Originally posted by ilyes ilyes wrote:

Installed one a few weeks ago. I like it better than fast, hands down. The interface is better than fast and fitech, though a bit harder to set up the parameters the first time. The harness bulk is about the same size as the Fast, Fitech is a lot let.

Now, after driving all 3, I like the fitech and Holley the most. Fast is inconsistent on hot starts, especially on lower vacuum engine.
 
Why did you end up changing the FI system?  Last time I remember you were installing the FiTech system on you car. 


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Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 8:40AM

I like the idea of Fuel injection, but I have several reasons for probably never installing it on my Torino.  First, I like the idea of an old car having old technology.  It's nice to have simple mechanical parts that can be tuned and fixed easily.  Plus I want to keep my car appearing stockish.

Second, the cost of the systems has come done, but they are still very pricey, once you figure in the fuel system mods that are also required.  And me living north of the border, I always have to live with higher prices in general.
 
Third, while OEM fuel injection is dead nuts reliable, I am question the reliability of aftermarket systems.  And while you can have go to any parts store to get parts for your 25 year old FI truck, that probably won't happen for these aftermarket systems. 
 
But I am glad they keep coming down in price and improving with time.  I may never put on my Torino, but I could foresee using an FI system on another project down the road.


-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: ilyes
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 12:19PM
I still have the Fitech in my car, and don't plan on changing it unless I score a tunne ram, then I'd put 2 of them on top. I've installed a lot of these EFI at work, so I just want to share what I like/dislike about them.


Posted By: 72GTS351CJ
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 12:31PM
How about a few pics

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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special                                     


Posted By: havanariviera
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 1:09PM


Posted By: havanariviera
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 1:10PM


Posted By: havanariviera
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 1:11PM
For what it's worth, here are a couple shots of when the FAST EZ EFI was installed; aesthetically, it didn't look bad - the throttle body setup almost looked like it belonged. It just wasn't meant to be for me.


Posted By: 72GTS351CJ
Date Posted: 04-December-2017 at 2:16PM
Looks like a nice clean installation. What a shame it's not reliable.... Geno.. I loved your video. Let us know how it runs

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72GTS Clint Eastwood Special                                     


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 09-December-2017 at 1:23PM
Well I finished it and here is the video. So far I am extremely happy...



-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: 72GTS351CJ
Date Posted: 09-December-2017 at 2:26PM
Geno, I watched the video and it sounds like it runs great. But I'm curious, you said in the video you just got the efi back from holley....What was the problem?

-------------
72GTS Clint Eastwood Special                                     


Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 09-December-2017 at 4:12PM
Clap glad you got it working! i never realized your car was in that great of condition... that horn pad looks brand new Thumbs Up

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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION


Posted By: lynchster
Date Posted: 09-December-2017 at 6:10PM


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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
91 F-150


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 10-December-2017 at 6:50AM
Awesome, glad that is' up and running.  Thanks again for sharing the great videos.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 11-December-2017 at 3:59AM
The ecu would not take a tune from the factory. After trying everthing, including new SD card, and down load of software. They had me mail it back to them and they worked some magic and when I got it back it worked great.

So far it seems wonderful. I will do an update after I put some miles on it..




-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: fordismyboss
Date Posted: 11-December-2017 at 7:01AM
Clap Great to know this project is a success!

Can't wait to see a picture of that larger 26 gal. fuel tank in the back of your '73! Curious how far it hangs down....


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 11-December-2017 at 7:13AM
If I get home before dark I'll try to get a picture. How far away do you want the picture from? 

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1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: fordismyboss
Date Posted: 11-December-2017 at 7:42AM
May I suggest an image that is wide enough to see both rear tires? This way, we should be able to see the tank, the bottom portion of the rear valance, the sway bar and the lower control arm mounting points. From this we can judge how your 26 Gal. tank hangs compared to our 22 Gal. units.

Thank you!


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 06-January-2018 at 12:26AM
Here is a picture with the new tank in. I finally got home before dark yesterday.




-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 06-January-2018 at 3:27AM
So that's the 26 gallon tank?  It seems to stick down a bit more than stock, but that's not bad at all.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 06-January-2018 at 5:19AM
looks great!


-------------
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION


Posted By: MrSmog
Date Posted: 06-January-2018 at 12:28PM
the 26 gallon tank, is that for the later 74-76 cars? Is this efi a multi port or a throttle body setup? As the lost art of carb tunin slowly vanishes from gearhead culture, more of these setups will get sold I bet. I have tried to explain carbs, jets etc to a few young guys into 4 wheelers and they act as if i am describin some sort of black magic and wizadry lol


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Past 1974 Ranchero GT Q code

Present 1973 Q code formal roof base model Torino with ralleye equpiment package and 4spd.


Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 06-January-2018 at 12:59PM
LOLThumbs Up

-------------
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 07-January-2018 at 12:53AM
It definitely doesnt look to bad. 

It is a later tank. I have a perfectly good 1973 tank that I took out. If anyone needs it, I wont ship, but its free to a good home. So if your close let me know....

I agree, I spent a lot of time trying to get the tune right sand I just could get it to work to my satisfaction.


-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 07-January-2018 at 2:54AM
I have the 26 gallon tank in my gold '72 Formal. Not super noticeable, but mine has been painted black to somewhat hide it. I do enjoy no fuel spillage out the back, the added capacity, easier refueling, and the fact it is a newer, fresh tank. From the side, you cannot see it at all, and it is barely noticeable from the rear.




-------------
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: 7T9_Tbird
Date Posted: 07-January-2018 at 4:17AM
I was looking into changing the 'Bird over to EFI a while ago, and found this on Youtube;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI

Pretty good comparison w/real numbers.  Also didn't know some of these are manifold picky.


-------------
John
79 Thunderbird Heritage
79 Thunderbird Town Landau


Posted By: geno8769
Date Posted: 08-January-2018 at 1:26AM
Plus its relatively inexpensive. I bought mine from Rock Auto for around $119.00.

So added volume and a fresh tank.



-------------
1973 GTS "Q" Motor
2013 F150 CC 5.0 4x4 XLT

https://www.youtube.com/user/geno8769



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