Realistic expectations.. or not? 351C
Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Powertrain Specific Forum
Forum Name: 335 Series Engine Forum
Forum Description: 351C, 351M and 400 engines
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=19283
Printed Date: 16-April-2024 at 11:22AM
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Realistic expectations.. or not? 351C
Posted By: Bueller
Subject: Realistic expectations.. or not? 351C
Date Posted: 26-December-2020 at 1:11PM
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Hey guys and gals.. So I’m spit balling on doing a rebuild in the next year or two on the 4V. I’d like to do a power tour in the next few years, so everything is getting reworked. I’m thinking I’d like to get 450-500 hp to the rear wheels naturally aspirated. Is that fairly realistic/reliable on these engines? Thinking some aluminum heads, cam, and bumping compression back up. Along with sniper fuel injection. ‘Might’ consider stroking it, if that’s what it takes. I’m just after good reliable power. Not taking it racing or anything like that. What have you guys gone with on these that works good and holds together? I don’t have any experience with the 335 series... Frank
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Replies:
Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 26-December-2020 at 1:17PM
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450 to the wheels isn't that hard at all with stock heads, pistons to make compression, a proper cam and a little attn to detail. are you familiar with the forum post / articles by George Pence? http://forum.grantorinosport.org/ford-351c-and-335-series-engine-information_topic18192.html?KW=george+pence" rel="nofollow - http://forum.grantorinosport.org/ford-351c-and-335-series-engine-information_topic18192.html?KW=george+pence
------------- 72 GT Ute |
Posted By: Bueller
Date Posted: 26-December-2020 at 1:24PM
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I’ll check that all out for sure, thank ya.... Doesn’t bother me to run stock heads, especially if I can save a little money doing it. Hoping I can find a good machine shop that knows what he’s doing with these older blocks...that’s probably my biggest worry on getting this project underway. It seems to be getting harder and harder to find anyone willing to do anything the right way anymore.... Frank
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Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 26-December-2020 at 2:48PM
^^^ you got that right! ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: 72 RS 351
Date Posted: 27-December-2020 at 2:27AM
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Ditto, proper machine work is key, balancing and blue printing an engine are critical keys to big reliable power. ------------- Don 73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
Posted By: BadHabit351
Date Posted: 01-September-2021 at 9:11AM
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Jon Kaase, when asked in an interview for a quick recipe for a 400 hp 351C, was quoted as saying "Just pull #7 plug wire" ------------- 1973/72 Gran Torino Sport 1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
Posted By: Zrob90sc
Date Posted: 25-November-2021 at 4:28AM
| I was in the same boat long ago and built a stock crank,rod and block, 4v cc motor. SRP flat top pistons with a nice solid flat cam. Wanted 500hp and made over that. Back then I would have called it streetable, drive to the gas station for beer type motor. Now I like to cruise on the highway for extended periods and that motor sits on a pallet rack. If you want power AND reliability to cruise definitely stroke the motor to a 408. |
Posted By: Exodus 73GT
Date Posted: 05-December-2021 at 3:39AM
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If you're replacing a piston, I suggest stroking to 408. Ill post picutres of my project soon. 1970 Cleveland 2V, 2 Bolt Mains. -AFR 195CC / 58CC Chamber -AFR Single Plan Intake ( Victor Style ) -Holley Stealth EFI Carb -SCAT Rotating Assembly H Beams, Pro Stock Lightweight Crank, Flat top pistons. -Lunati .579 / .571 Voodoo Cam -Engine Tanked, Electrolysis, Media Blasted, Diamond Honed to .040 Over. -Stroke/Bore combo up to 408. 600HP Street Sleeper. |
Posted By: SeattleJay
Date Posted: 05-December-2021 at 9:45AM
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I remember the good ol' days when 400 hp was a lot. I still think 400 at the wheels of any car on street tires is a handful. Nice moderate dependable 4v build has you right there. It will pull good vacuum so no braking mods are necessary. Start moving up past that it gets expensive these days. Just to rework stock 4v heads here in Seattle is about 2200 with studs, valves, etc. Finding good aluminum heads right now is a trick and is about the same price. Throw in roller rockers, and roller cam and it will get up there quick. The price between 400-500 will jump dramatically. If your set on going for 500 at the wheels consider looking up George Pence and follow his oiling modifications to the lifter bores to limit oil flow. He has some good insight on HP builds. I like to think with moderation comes predictability and acceptable price. The extreme more maintenance and more cash. That's my experience! It really comes down to how you are going to use the car. Running around on the streets and having fun on power tour moderate will serve you well. |
Posted By: 72 RS 351
Date Posted: 06-December-2021 at 2:45AM
Ditto, the basic rebuild costs are way up, now it looks like $3k for near stock level engines. Head costs along with intake and headers, seem to be similar to doing just the stock engine. So $6k isn't hard to spend when you get into the roller rockers and camshaft, the lifter bore bushings, and head work etc. Try to keep the rpm's down a little, and stock rockers will be very reliable. But the heads ought to be seeing 6000-7000 rpm, and that's where the extra money has to be spent.
------------- Don 73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
SeattleJay wrote:Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 16-March-2022 at 7:01PM
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My advice: Seek out builders who know what they are doing with a 351C. Find the right shops. Do not be afraid to either make a road trip and drop off things even if you have to drive two days each way. Secondly: Cam cores and lifters have MASSIVE problems. Cam companies blaming oil makers, Machine shops blaming cam companies, so much finger pointing when a lot of the remaining companies are all run by the same investment firms trying to save money by using garbage raw materials that are not properly checked in QU (Quality Assurance) for specifications, heat treatment, base metallurgy that is of appropriate quality needed for quality parts. My advice is....there is so much BAD information out there on the internet...go to established FoMoCo builders and let them source parts. Because I bet you your bottom dollar and back side, they don't want a fresh rebuild to fail. I have read, heard, and watched far too much about cam lobes and lifter failures in recent memory...and it's just brutal watching people who tried to save a few bucks have to tear a fresh build back apart. Also, watch what you say to insurance. The minute I mentioned to mine I had replaced parts with fresh ones, they got to sniffing out me for info on how much HP I thought I had. That's where a "Gentleman, this is just a mild 351C 2V headed Cleveland. It's not my cobra jet. I'm sure it's not the *COUGH, COUGH* something something 380-400HP we figured it was when it was fresh 22 years ago, this is a mild puppy dog, my good insurance man! Goodness, it's only got 2.75 gears out back, with the 5 speed we barely ever get into real RPM's!" (Now excuse me, I am off to make another Omaha, NE to Kansas City run for BBQ at 5:15AM on a Saturday in around 1 Hr 17 Minutes with an average cruising speed of...alot. I plead the 5th, your honor to my average cruising speed, but use 27.9" tall tire, 2800RPM, 2.75 gear ratio, and toss in TKO500 .68 OD ratio and I'm sure you can figure our cruising speeds) -------------  Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed RestomodPondering: #99Problems |
Posted By: Bueller
Date Posted: 17-March-2022 at 2:45AM
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Your first bit of advice is a carbon copy of how I feel about it. Thinking the biggest problem is going to be finding ‘that’ guy. Biggest reason for doing everything myself, besides being a broke ass, is the tendency to receive sloppy and negligent service. The last machine shop experience by a ‘reputable’ machine shop left a lot to be desired, with several problems I had to fix myself. 351W roller out of my mom’s 96 Bronco..Problems included: had him extract a broken 5/16” water pump bolt which he repaired with a 1/4” hole, the cam plug on the back side was driven in too far so the cam was poking out the front too far. To top it off, when he did the heads, he must of jacked up at least 1 valve seal, cause it makes a giant smoke cloud at first start up, and clears up right away. I know we all make mistakes, but I feel like these could of been easily avoided by a proficient machine shop. It’s gonna be a while before I get to tearing out the engine. Got a lot of sheet metal work and painting to do first… Frank
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