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INFO: The Coil Spring Thread

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Forum Name: 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
Forum Description: Technical discussion for 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
URL: http://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=2746
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Topic: INFO: The Coil Spring Thread
Posted By: Eliteman76
Subject: INFO: The Coil Spring Thread
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 12:34PM
PLEASE NOTE:  ALL the data from this thread is compiled in an easy to read format here:
 
http://forum.grantorinosport.org/torino-spring-specifications-oem-and-aftermarket_topic16862.html" rel="nofollow -
'72 Torino fastback Fr.  Spring Code
351 CJ std.  (early)         4Z
351 CJ std. (late)         94
351 CJ HD         4Z
351 CJ comp. (early)         3Y
351 CJ comp. (late)         7T
429 std.         4Z
429 HD (early)         5A
429 HD (late)         8A
429 comp (early)         3Y
429 comp (late)         7X
351 CJ & 429 Police         7X
CODE    lbs. # of coils wire dia. free length
94 2030 10 1/4 .648 18  7/8
3Y 1920 8  3/4 .740 19  1/4
4Z 2116 10  9/16 .652 19  1/4
5A 2200 10  9/16 .652 19  9/16
7T 2089 9  1/8 .728 15  15/16
7X 2199 9  1/8 .728 16  1/8
8A 2152 10 .670 18  13/16

 

 

REAR SPRINGS lbs.
351 CJ & 429 std. susp. 840-880
351 CJ & 429 comp. susp. 900
Police car 1000

application   code
 std. susp-early  7S

 "     "                     A/C

 4Z
 "     "                     P/S  94
 "      "                A/C & P/S   4Z
 std. susp-late  7S
 "        "               A/C  94
 "       "               P/S  7S
 "       "             A/C & P/S  4Z
 HD susp  7T
 "   "                  A/C  7X
 "    "                 P/S  7T
 "    "               A/C & P/S  7X

 

 

CODE 7S = 1gray stripe & 2 red, 1908 lb.,10-1/8 coils, .637 wire dia., 18-15/16 free length

 

(All other codes, see table below)

 

All information listed is for a '72 GTS fastback w/ 400 engine

----------------------------------
For those that belong to the Fairlane Club of America, here is the link to my original posting there, and Jack Grice's reply:
https://fca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=2155&club_id=363066&item_id=3046" rel="nofollow - https://fca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=2155&club_id=363066&item_id=3046   


-------------
Andrew



Replies:
Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 1:10PM
Great info!! Where did you get that stuff from?

Where it says, all info is for 1972 Fastback with 400, what is that refering too? I am curious what the factory codes are for my car, since it is a 1972 fastback with 400 engine (P/S, no A/C).

I wish that those specs would have included the load height, then it would be very easy to calculate the spring rates.

I think we can still calculate the spring rates, but we have to use a much more complicated formula:

spring rate = Gd^4 / 8ND³

G = 11,250,000 Torsional Modules for steel (constant)

d = wire diameter in inches

N = number of active coils

D = Mean coil diameter

8 = constant for all springs

The problem is, we have the number of coils, but we need to know how many are active (active coils are the ones not touching anything). So for example, if 3/4 of the top coil touches the top mount, and 1/2 touchs the lower mount, then 1 1/4 coils are NOT active.

We also need the mean diameter, which the diameter in the middle of the coil wire. We don't have any diameter listed for the OEM springs, but all Moog replacements are 4.04" inner diameter, so maybe we can assume OEM has the same diameter. So mean diameter should be inner diameter plus wire diameter.

With that info, we should be able to come up with some rough spring rates, as long as we can figure out what the number of non active coils (I would assume this should stay constant between different springs).







-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 1:38PM
From the research I had done, along with Interceptor460, He found that a 1976 Chevy Impalla with a 454 actually had a shorter spring, with a higher rate, thicker coils, but I've never been able to get a set myself to test.
 
With springs...I've said this before...it's a matter of personal choice. SOme guys will deal with a dump truck ride, others don't feel the need for a super stiff spring.
 
Another thing to keep in mind...when you increase springs, you need to consider your shocks as well.
 
Andy


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 2:00PM
This is a very interesting subject. I'm trying to follow along best I can, but the math is a bit much for me. I have been looking at different springs for my car and trying to decide the best choice. I want springs on the front and rear that make the car handle exceptionally well, but not ride like a truck. Mine is a '73 GTS that I'm putting a '70 429 CJ in. I got interested in the CVPI springs from Torinogts73c's comments on how well he liked these springs. I just don't know how well they would work with the heavier engine. I was looking at front and rear springs for a '77 LTD II wagon also. The numbers look good, but I'm not to well educated in this area.
Thanks guys for all your help!
Jim


-------------
Jim




Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 3:13PM
After doing some reading, it appears for coil over springs they consider two complete coils inactive for spring calculations. I am not sure if that applies for short/long control arm suspension. If it does, the spring rates are as follows:

Code     Wire Diameter     Number of Coils     Mean Coil Diameter     Spring Rate
94     0.648     10.250     4.688     292
3y     0.740     8.7500     4.780     572
4Z     0.652     10.625     4.692     285
5A     0.652     10.625     4.692     285
7T     0.728     9.1250     4.768     511
7X     0.728     9.1250     4.768     511
8A     0.670     10.000     4.710     339
7S     0.637     10.125     4.677     279

Even if the my assumption on the non-active coils isn't correct, this would at least give us a comparision on which springs are stiffest.

For reference, Moog lists the following Springs:

Part # Spring Rate

8166    282
8302    318
8170    360




-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: crispy23c
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 3:19PM
GREAT stuff!!  Andy, can you post the striping code table that is mentioned on the bottom of your post?  I didn't see it. By that I mean color stripe codes.
And...
Here is a link to more information and codes for the Crown Vic Police Springs.  Not to derail the thread, but I know that others here (like me) are considering installing CVPI front springs in their Torinos:
http://www.p71interceptor.com/rearsprings/ - http://www.p71interceptor.com/rearsprings/
 
Link says rear, but it lists important info on the front springs too.


-------------
Chris P. '73 GTS FastBack 351CJ-4V Triple black


"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." - Gen. John Stark


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 09-November-2009 at 3:28PM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

From the research I had done, along with Interceptor460, He found that a 1976 Chevy Impalla with a 454 actually had a shorter spring, with a higher rate, thicker coils, but I've never been able to get a set myself to test.
 

With springs...I've said this before...it's a matter of personal choice. SOme guys will deal with a dump truck ride, others don't feel the need for a super stiff spring.

 

Another thing to keep in mind...when you increase springs, you need to consider your shocks as well.

 

Andy


Well the stiffest '76 Impala Spring is Moog 6446 - rated at 514 in/lbs. It has a 4.03 inner diameter, .01" smaller than the Torino.

If we compare it to the 8170 Torino spring, we can use the load rate of 2375 lbs as the approximate spring load.

So, 2375 lbs / 514 in/lbs = 4.62 inches.

So, this spring will be compressed 4.62 inches with 2375 lbs of pressure on it.

Now, 16.77 in - 4.62 in = 12.15 inches

So, this spring will actually be 1.25" higher than the Torino spring which sits at 11" with 2375 lbs of pressure on it.

Maybe it was another part number?

I agree Springs are very preference oriented. I would like to figure out all the OEM spring rates so we all know what we are starting with. That way, we can all make better spring choices.

Personally, my goal would be to make my Torino handle like a and ride like a CVPI. These cars have next to no body roll and ride stiff but not harsh.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 2:42AM
In REAL Laymans terms, what does this mean?

In all of my cars, I always ran stock rear springs and small block front springs with a big block, for stance, along with full poly bushings in the biggest sway bars I could find.. My Cougar has Bilstein CVPI spec shocks.. I can stand on the rear bumper and bounce and the car doesn't deflect much at all. I never had a complaint on ride?


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 3:05AM

I'll throw more into the mix. You guys are dealing with the earlier cars.

the heavier 77-79 cars have even more MOOG #s

MOOG Part # 8544
Frt Susp; w/o A/C
 
Spring # Inside Dia Bar Dia Install Height Load rate (lbs) Spring Rate (Lbs/in.) Free Height
http://101part.net/scart/product_details.asp?ItemNum=MOG-8544 - 8544 4.04 0.672 12 2150 322 18.69
MOOG Part # 862
Frt Susp; w/A/C; Heavy Duty
Spring # Inside Dia Bar Dia Install Height Load rate (lbs) Spring Rate (Lbs/in.) Free Height
 
http://101part.net/scart/product_details.asp?ItemNum=MOG-862 - 862 4.04 0.705 12 2250 396.5 17.77
 
 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 3:41AM
http://grantorinosport.org/forum/uploads/573/springs.xls - uploads/573/springs.xls
 
I uploaded an XLS file I just created with all of the moog spring rates I found in an online catalog that uses 'our' type of spring ends.
 
Now I have no idea what to do with these numbers, but if you tell me how to crunch em, I'd be happy to. Smile


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 2:31PM
Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

http://grantorinosport.org/forum/uploads/573/springs.xls - uploads/573/springs.xls
 

I uploaded an XLS file I just created with all of the moog spring rates I found in an online catalog that uses 'our' type of spring ends.

 

Now I have no idea what to do with these numbers, but if you tell me how to crunch em, I'd be happy to. Smile


Those all have the same ends, but they won't all work because of the size. Almost all Torino springs have an inner diameter of 4.04", so they'd have to be close to that to work in our cars.

I made an Excel sheet that has all the Torino springs Moog lists for Torinos 72-76. Year catagory in the chart is the first year the springs are used, sometimes they are used in other years as well. The standard and CVPI Crown Vic springs are listed as well. If you look at the springs, it looks like the 72-73 cars have lower (11" approx) load heights vs 74-76 (12" approx).

I also included a small spring calculator chart on the side of the chart. You can use this to compare using different springs.

Use this page to find out what your "stock" Moog replacement spring would be for your Torino:

http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm - http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm


Find what the load rate of the spring your car has stock. So we'll use a 1972 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension - spring 8170. Stock this sits at 11" load height and has a 360 in/lbs rate. Now lets compare this to the 1974 HD spring because it has the heigher 411 in/lbs spring rate. So use the load weight from the spring (this is the approximate load your car puts on the spring) and enter this into the first blank box on the calculator. Then use the spring rate and free height of the new spring you want to compare it to.

In our example, we'd use 2375 load weight, 411 spring rate, and 17.16 free height. And the result is 11.4. So this spring will sit higher than the stock spring at the same load weight. So, although we'd get a stiffer spring, the stance of the car will suffer.

I hope this makes sense. Of course I am not sure how accurate these load weights are, so this can only be used as an estimate to help choose a spring.

If we can get some accurate measurments on the front suspension of the Torino, there is the potentional to get accurate load rates for an individuals car. There is a formula than with those measurements than can figure out if there is x weight on the front wheels, then the front spring will have y weight exerted on it.

uploads/457/Torino_Springs_2.xls - Torino_Springs_2.xls

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 2:34PM
This is what I like seeing!!
This is good from the point it helps to consolidate the info.
 
I will have to check on the FCA site if I can get the info.
 
Andy


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 2:47PM
Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

In REAL Laymans terms, what does this mean?


Which part are you refering to?

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-November-2009 at 3:49PM
Well. thinking goes like this. I have springs that call for a ride height at 12". Is it safe to say they sagged a bit and went to 11"? If thats the case.. I want 1" lower... so 10" installed height.
 
stock rate is 322 lbs.
 
I'd go a bit stiffer, and 10" installed height.. with the 4.031- 4.04 coils.
 
5428 works..
 
2650 lbs / 393 in lbs = 6.74"... subtract from free height of 16.83.. I get 10.08"
 
(2650 is the weight of a 460 in a 76 Torino... I guess I will use that as a guideline/starting point).
 
It's for an early 80s Caprice.
 
I don't want a go kart ride.. I always felt the best way to go was soft springs and really thick sway bars... combine that with thin sidewalls.
 
 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: rtgreen
Date Posted: 11-November-2009 at 2:48AM
Here is some more helpful information for anyone looking to replace springs.
 
This is from Eaton Springs Website.
 
Spring Tech 101
http://www.eatonsprings.com/SpringTech101.pdf - http://www.eatonsprings.com/SpringTech101.pdf


-------------
72 Gran Torino Sport Q 4spd

1996 GT- H/C/I swap, SCT

1995 Bronco - 5.0 5spd.



Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 11-November-2009 at 7:50AM
Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

Well. thinking goes like this. I have springs that call for a ride height at 12". Is it safe to say they sagged a bit and went to 11"? If thats the case.. I want 1" lower... so 10" installed height.

 

stock rate is 322 lbs.

 

I'd go a bit stiffer, and 10" installed height.. with the 4.031- 4.04 coils.

 

5428 works..

 

2650 lbs / 393 in lbs = 6.74"... subtract from free height of 16.83.. I get 10.08"

 

(2650 is the weight of a 460 in a 76 Torino... I guess I will use that as a guideline/starting point).

 

It's for an early 80s Caprice.

 

I don't want a go kart ride.. I always felt the best way to go was soft springs and really thick sway bars... combine that with thin sidewalls.

 

 


Well, you're on the right track. The only problem is, these heights are all at the coil spring. Since the lower control arm acts as a lever, 1" at the wheel, won't be 1" at the spring. So these coil springs you selected will sit 2" lower than the stock springs. I am not sure how that would translate at the wheels, but I would think it would be more than 2" at the wheels because of the lever action.

I think those springs would work, but my educated guess is that they might drop the car more than you'd expect.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 02-December-2009 at 9:01AM
I emailed Mike the "spring guru" over at Eaton springs. I asked him about the number of inactive coils for Torino springs. Because the Torino has one square end and one tangential end, only 1.5 coils are inactive. I guess this makes sense when you think about it.

So I recalcualted the spring rates for OEM springs, which are a little lower than the original numbers I posted.

    Torino Spring Rates              
                    
OEM Springs                    
Code     Wire Diameter     Number of Coils     Mean Coil Diameter     Spring Rate
94     0.648     10.250     4.688     275
3Y     0.740     08.750     4.780     533
4Z     0.652     10.625     4.692     270
5A     0.652     10.625     4.692     270
7T     0.728     09.125     4.768     478
7X     0.728     09.125     4.768     478
8A     0.670     10.000     4.710     319
7S     0.637     10.125     4.677     262
91     0.628     10.500     4.668     239
92     0.628     10.500     4.668     239
7R     0.615     10.125     4.655     231

If someone can put that into a more readable chart it would be appreciated.

Also, if anyone has anymore OEM spring specs for any year Torino, please send them to me and I will calculate the spring rates.

Is there anyway to make this thread sticky? It's good reference for the future.


-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: interceptor460
Date Posted: 02-December-2009 at 5:46PM
 On my 74 460 PI torino my front springs were p/n D4AW 5310AVA . Also it had a lime green or yellow tag with the part number and the letters (SHE) on it. In my old TRW book this coil  is listed as p/n CS8336. The wire dia. is 4.04 inches and the wire is .720 inch thick. The installed height is 10.50" and free height is 17.12" . The spring rate is 449.7 lbs. and load in lbs. is 2975. I have found a chevy coil spring for 74 caprice with 454 engine . The TRW p/n is CS5552 inside dia is 4.03 inches free height is 16.22 inches and installed height is 10.50 inches. Load in lbs. is 3025 lbs. The spring rate is 542.8 lbs. and wire is .740 inches thick. I find it would be a good all around coil spring for this car.


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 3:05AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

http://grantorinosport.org/forum/uploads/573/springs.xls - uploads/573/springs.xls
 

I uploaded an XLS file I just created with all of the moog spring rates I found in an online catalog that uses 'our' type of spring ends.

 

Now I have no idea what to do with these numbers, but if you tell me how to crunch em, I'd be happy to. Smile


Those all have the same ends, but they won't all work because of the size. Almost all Torino springs have an inner diameter of 4.04", so they'd have to be close to that to work in our cars.

I made an Excel sheet that has all the Torino springs Moog lists for Torinos 72-76. Year catagory in the chart is the first year the springs are used, sometimes they are used in other years as well. The standard and CVPI Crown Vic springs are listed as well. If you look at the springs, it looks like the 72-73 cars have lower (11" approx) load heights vs 74-76 (12" approx).

I also included a small spring calculator chart on the side of the chart. You can use this to compare using different springs.

Use this page to find out what your "stock" Moog replacement spring would be for your Torino:

http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm - http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm


Find what the load rate of the spring your car has stock. So we'll use a 1972 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension - spring 8170. Stock this sits at 11" load height and has a 360 in/lbs rate. Now lets compare this to the 1974 HD spring because it has the heigher 411 in/lbs spring rate. So use the load weight from the spring (this is the approximate load your car puts on the spring) and enter this into the first blank box on the calculator. Then use the spring rate and free height of the new spring you want to compare it to.

In our example, we'd use 2375 load weight, 411 spring rate, and 17.16 free height. And the result is 11.4. So this spring will sit higher than the stock spring at the same load weight. So, although we'd get a stiffer spring, the stance of the car will suffer.

I hope this makes sense. Of course I am not sure how accurate these load weights are, so this can only be used as an estimate to help choose a spring.

If we can get some accurate measurments on the front suspension of the Torino, there is the potentional to get accurate load rates for an individuals car. There is a formula than with those measurements than can figure out if there is x weight on the front wheels, then the front spring will have y weight exerted on it.

uploads/457/Torino_Springs_2.xls - Torino_Springs_2.xls
 
Good info, but the spring load rates are moog rates which some are different from the factory load rates.


-------------
Jim




Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 4:16AM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

Good info, but the spring load rates are moog rates which some are different from the factory load rates.


Yes, that XLS file is for Moog springs only, not factory springs. If you see a couple of posts up, I have the specs for the factory springs (for '72 Torinos). The aftermarket has far fewer spring choices than the factory options. However, since it's unlikely to get factory springs anymore, we are stuck with using Moog. That's why you can look up the specs of the factory and see if the aftermarket makes one close to the original. Otherwise, you may need to get custom springs to match the car's originals.

Don't forget load rates are simply the weight applied to the spring at the load height, it's not the spring's capacity. For example, a spring with a 2500 lb load rate and an 11" installed height, simply means that when the spring is compressed to 11", it has a load of 2500 lbs on it.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 5:40AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

Good info, but the spring load rates are moog rates which some are different from the factory load rates.


Yes, that XLS file is for Moog springs only, not factory springs. If you see a couple of posts up, I have the specs for the factory springs (for '72 Torinos). The aftermarket has far fewer spring choices than the factory options. However, since it's unlikely to get factory springs anymore, we are stuck with using Moog. That's why you can look up the specs of the factory and see if the aftermarket makes one close to the original. Otherwise, you may need to get custom springs to match the car's originals.

Don't forget load rates are simply the weight applied to the spring at the load height, it's not the spring's capacity. For example, a spring with a 2500 lb load rate and an 11" installed height, simply means that when the spring is compressed to 11", it has a load of 2500 lbs on it.
 
OK
Here's my dilemma;
I want to go with the CVPI spring. I read somewhere the factory spring load rate is around 2400+. The Moog replacement is around 2100. I can order the Ford spring from Ford under part number D90Z-5310-W but I cannot verify the specs. My 73 was originally a 351, now it will be a 429 and with the extra weight I want to make sure I get the right spring. I don't think the Moog spring will work for me with it's lower load rate.Confused 


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 6:50AM
My dilemma is.. ride height.

-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 9:39AM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

Here's my dilemma;

I want to go with the CVPI spring. I read somewhere the factory spring load rate is around 2400+. The Moog replacement is around 2100. I can order the Ford spring from Ford under part number D90Z-5310-W but I cannot verify the specs. My 73 was originally a 351, now it will be a 429 and with the extra weight I want to make sure I get the right spring. I don't think the Moog spring will work for me with it's lower load rate.Confused 


I crunched some numbers, and I think you'll be okay with the Moog springs. Remember, the load rate is not the springs capacity. It is how much weight the spring is carrying at it the height it's designed ride height. Things get complicated when you compare different applications and spring rates, and may not be easy to compare.

If anyone has the specs for the factory CVPI springs, I'd like to see how they compare to the Moogs.

If you open the XLS file I made on the Moog springs, you'll see there is a spring calculator on the side as well. This was made to compare different springs in your application.

The load rate is the pressure that the car puts on the spring. So this stays constant for your car regardless of spring choice. So if we have a 1973 429 Torino with HD springs, the moog application is 8314. So according to Moog, this Torino puts about 2776 lbs of pressure on the front coil spring. You can change this to any spring in the world, but as long as you don't change anything else on the car, your car will still put 2776 lbs of pressure on that spring.

So if you want to compare this to a CVPI Moog spring, you can use the calculator to do that. Enter in the 2776 load from your car, the 710 in/lbs rating and 14.38" free height of the spring.

The result: 10.5"

This means, the CVPI spring will sit at 10.5" when loaded with 2776 lbs of pressure. If you see the chart, the stock springs for 1972-73 Torino's have the springs sit at 10.5-11". So, it looks like you car would sit pretty near stock height with these springs, but my guess is on the low side.

Remember, the load rate of on the CVPI spring is only 2034 lbs. This means a Vic only puts that much pressure on the front springs. But, you'll also note the Crown Vic, stock and CVPI, has the springs stitting at 11.5" (approx), which is much taller than the '73 Torino.

I hope this is clear, if not I'll try to explain it better.

I wanted to try to run CVPI moogs in my '72 Torino, but with my 400 and lack of the weight from the heavy '73 bumper, I think they'll sit too high in my car.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 1:45PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

 

If you open the XLS file I made on the Moog springs, you'll see there is a spring calculator on the side as well. This was made to compare different springs in your application.


I opened the chart, but I don't understand "spring calculator". How does that work?


-------------
Jim




Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 3:45PM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:



I opened the chart, but I don't understand "spring calculator". How does that work?


First go to this page, and find out what moog spring your car uses.

http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm

Then look at the load rate for that spring. This is an "approximate" load rate that you can use for your car. The only way to find the actual load rate involves weighing you car at that corner and using bunch of really complicated math and measurements from the suspension (which I don't have).

So for example, on that page a 1973 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension uses coil spring 8224. We look at the Excel chart and this spring has a load rate of 2776 lbs. So, that means, a 1973 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension puts approximate 2776 lbs of pressure on that front spring when stock. So, if we use a different spring in the car, it still puts that same pressure (2776 lbs) on the spring (the car's weight hasn't changed), do you follow me?

So, take that load rate for your car, enter it in the load rate on the spring calculator. Then find the spring specs from from the coil spring you want to try in your car. So, lets say we use Moog 8336, which is a much stiffer spring from a 1975 460 Torino. So you use the spring rate (how stiff the spring is) and the free length (the length of the spring uncompressed) in the calculator from spring 8336.

The result is 11.2". So what does that mean?

It means if you apply a load of 2776 lbs to that spring, it will compress to 11.2" in height. The stock Moog spring for this 73 compressed to 10.5" in height with that same load. So these springs would lift the front end of the Torino compared to the stock Moog replacements.

Do you follow?

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 03-December-2009 at 4:02PM
I believe I understand now. I just can't find the spring calculator.Wacko

-------------
Jim




Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 04-December-2009 at 1:52AM
It's on the excel sheet, it's over on the far right (depending on your screen resolution, you may have to scroll over to see it).

Just enter the numbers in the boxes and it will give you the result.

-------------
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 04-December-2009 at 2:26AM
GOT IT!!
That works great!
 
ThanksThumbs Up


-------------
Jim




Posted By: interceptor460
Date Posted: 04-December-2009 at 6:23AM
Also as I mentioned in my previous reply . You can use springs made for other cars. This is as long the ends are the same and inside diameters are 4.03 to 4.04 inch. If you take a look you get a wider choice and higher spring rates if needed. Look at coil p/n CS5552 74 caprice . A higher rate than ford offers at the same height as coil p/n cs8336.
 


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 04-December-2009 at 2:17PM
Originally posted by interceptor460 interceptor460 wrote:

Also as I mentioned in my previous reply . You can use springs made for other cars. This is as long the ends are the same and inside diameters are 4.03 to 4.04 inch. If you take a look you get a wider choice and higher spring rates if needed. Look at coil p/n CS5552 74 caprice . A higher rate than ford offers at the same height as coil p/n cs8336.
 

That spring in a Torino would actually have an installed height around 11.5. It would be a good choice for a 75-79ish w/460 if you need a little higher spring rate. What hurts that spring is the load rate of 3025lbs. Compared to the CVPI spring, the CVPI spring is a better choice for 72-73.


-------------
Jim




Posted By: interceptor460
Date Posted: 05-December-2009 at 4:55AM
It all depends what year crown victoria PI spring you are looking at. I tried to post photos on this site , but I have a problem doing so as I am not the best on using compters. I could show you ride height of my old police torino or show scans of coil spring specs. Also I had to cut down springs to reduce ride height on my 78 pontiac pheonix. It has a V-6, yet I put V-8 coils and I cut 1/2 a coil to put it a the right height. The end result it rides stiff yet I take turns with no worries.
  My 74 police torino was not so bad in the turns yet it could use improvement. I have to look into all options with a open mind. Last I do not have the CVPI coils specs for 2001 and up. I try to look into that soon.


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 05-December-2009 at 7:44AM
Originally posted by interceptor460 interceptor460 wrote:

It all depends what year crown victoria PI spring you are looking at. I do not have the CVPI coils specs for 2001 and up. I try to look into that soon.

MOOG Part # 80090
1998 - 2002 Crown Vic
1998 - 2002 Mercury Grand Marq
Inside DiaBar DiaInstall HeightLoad rate (lbs)Spring Rate (Lbs/in.)Free HeightEnd Type
4.04                           0.781                  11.75                    2034                      710                         14.38                     One Square End and 1 Tangential End


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 09-May-2010 at 3:36PM
BUMP anyone ever try anything from this?

-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 09-May-2010 at 3:49PM
Figures I made no effort to bump this back up Paul...thanks.
Reading though this again, I need to read it again...Geek


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 09-May-2010 at 3:51PM
I'm just looking for a simple answer like the chevelle guys seem to do. 

Have a big block? want 1" drop? use spring XXXX
2" drop? use XXXX.
Small block? use XXXX.

etc. 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 10-May-2010 at 8:26AM
I agree I would really like to drop my front end at least 2 inches but would rather replace the coil instead of cutting it since I have a lean and I am not sure if its the front coil.
 
 
Jesse


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 01-July-2010 at 10:58AM
Ok it is now time to bump this back up. I just ordered NAPA part number 277-3144. From what I can tell I have 2 different height springs in the front so I went to NAPA and the guy made a copy of the coils in the 4.000 - 4.080 diameter range out of his book. So I looked it over and picked one that looks like it will work best to possibly lower my front. I will post back with pics once they are in. The info on the springs is below.
 
# Coil Spring Coils : 9.13
Coil Spring Free Height : 16.12"
Coil Spring I.D. : 4.04"
Coil Spring Load Height : 10.5"
Design Load : 2329
Spring Rate : 414
Wire Diameter : .705
 
 
Jesse


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 22-August-2010 at 2:40PM
So I finally got my springs put in Friday and it seems a little different but it is really hard to tell any difference at all in the pic. I can tell that when sitting in the car the nose is down compared to before. I did not correct the lean with the springs so the only thing left is the control arms and spindle on the pass side that was replaced with JY parts from a different car that must be a little taller. That will be looked at next year some time.
 
 
 
 


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: lynchster
Date Posted: 22-August-2010 at 3:41PM
 
Have you noticed any difference in handling with the new springs? I went with a set of either 425 or 450 springs from Eaton. I was just curious as yours appear to spec pretty close and I won't get to drive mine for a bit yet.  
Sharp looking car. Looks like you tucked in the front bumper, did you do the rear as well? 


-------------
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
91 F-150


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 23-August-2010 at 3:01AM
As embarrassed as I am to say...

My Cougar from VA had PST 'lowering springs in the car. I loved the stance. Car handled great as well. . I asked the previous owner what he bought, etc.
In his words"
I think PST sent the wrong progressive rate front springs b/c the resulting ride height made the car sit like it was launching on slicks and a 4.88 gear! :) I could sit on either end of the bumper without much of a ride drop. We cut over a coil each side, but it didn't make much of a height difference. The final solution was to heat the bottom of each coil with a torch until it achieved the desired stance."

I hate to say it, but I'm really happy with these springs and I swapped them to my white Cougar.




-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 23-August-2010 at 10:57AM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

 
Have you noticed any difference in handling with the new springs? I went with a set of either 425 or 450 springs from Eaton. I was just curious as yours appear to spec pretty close and I won't get to drive mine for a bit yet.  
Sharp looking car. Looks like you tucked in the front bumper, did you do the rear as well? 
 
 
The only thing I noticed was that the springs that came out were really stiff and I could barely push them down. The new ones I am able to push down myself. Also the ones that came out one coil was 1/2 a coil taller just as I suspected, but I still have a lean and really think the spindle or one of the a arms are different than its supposed to be.
 
The front bumper was tucked but I dont think the rear one was.


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 23-August-2010 at 1:50PM
What year is your car? I would suggest getting another spare set of spindles.
I have a set off a '76 Elite floating around, along with I think I have one more pair of 1972 spindles.
 


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 23-August-2010 at 4:00PM
It is a 1975. I do know for sure that the lower control arm on the pass side is JY marked something like 74 Ford or something like that.

-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 24-August-2010 at 5:49AM
Man...I don't know. I always considered the lower and upper arms the same on these cars.
Only thing that comes to mind for me...if you are really having issue with the lean, swapping out the spindles, and checking the upper and lower arms, all new bushings and a set of matched springs.
I have yet to come across a bent 72-76 Spindle...but not to say it can't happen.
Andy 


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 24-August-2010 at 7:35AM
spindles different at all besides bearing size?
 
Like... EXAMPLE... using a 72 on a 74 lowers it by 1/2" or something whacky like that?
 
What about lower ball joint issues?
Shorter sleeve in the control arm making it sit different in the LCA?
Different angles between BJ and Spindle hole, not seat all the way or too far in?
Different BJ's all together? 1 taller than the other?
 
or... FRAME TWEAKED!?


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 24-August-2010 at 8:27AM
All that stuff is something I would have to look at more, but I do know that the car was set up to lean so that when the 10 sec big block torqued it would sit straight. And I know for sure the a arms on the pass side are different. I will post pics (when I get home)of the front end that I took and maybe someone can tell what is off.   

-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 24-August-2010 at 9:19AM
My Cougar is a hodgepodge collection of 76 Torino steering linkage, 72 Torino spindles, a 71 Mustang steering box, and 76 Torino (Elite) control arms.

It works together wonderfully Wink


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 24-August-2010 at 10:59AM

Ok so here is a few pics of the front suspension and I still dont see a difference except that one coil is bunched up at the bottom vs one being with normal gap. Maybe its just me! Lol!

New springs...
 
 
Old springs...
 
 
Upper A arms with old springs...
 


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 25-August-2010 at 5:57AM
I see nothing to throw a red flag.
Spring is a bit curious though...the new springs were identical, right?
 


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 25-August-2010 at 8:10AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

I see nothing to throw a red flag.
Spring is a bit curious though...the new springs were identical, right?
 
 
LOL!! That is the only thing that looks off to me too and the springs were identical!Confused


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 25-August-2010 at 11:48AM
the springs are not an issue... look at them, they are just spun around from one side to the other.
 
Look at where the END of the spring is. the one that looks bound up is at the end where the 2 coils come together as opposed to the other one you are looking at a single coil point with the overlap coil and end is on the other side.


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 26-August-2010 at 5:35AM
OK, with that being said, did you properly clock the spring?
On the lower arm, there is a pocket where the bottom of the spring slips into.
The flat portion will be on the "top" of the spring, where it's inserted up into the frame pocket.
 


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 26-August-2010 at 7:01AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

OK, with that being said, did you properly clock the spring?
On the lower arm, there is a pocket where the bottom of the spring slips into.
The flat portion will be on the "top" of the spring, where it's inserted up into the frame pocket.
 
 
Don't know as I didnt do the install. I will have to crawl under and take a look. I will see if I can get some detailed pics.


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 26-August-2010 at 12:06PM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

OK, with that being said, did you properly clock the spring?
On the lower arm, there is a pocket where the bottom of the spring slips into.
The flat portion will be on the "top" of the spring, where it's inserted up into the frame pocket.
 
That's what I was trying to say. lol

-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 5:56AM
Sorry Carl, I posted that, missed your post!
 
OK, I need a update: sound off on guys that have RECENTLY bought springs.
I am going to have my fronts as a winter project, and want to check brand and model you used. Figuring I am going to pick up another pair of 460 springs, and remove around 2" this time instead of 4-1/2" worth of coils.
 


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: moose0211
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 6:36AM
Andy, I have no idea about coil springs and ratios and stuff, but wouldn't 460 springs lift up the front? Psquare always said that he uses small block springs on the front, so wouldn't 302 springs lower the fronts a little on our 351 cars?

-------------
Lou and Brad

1972 Gran Torino- 351C/4r70w
1970 Chevy C30


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 6:38AM
I think his reasoning is he wants a stiffer spring.. but cut down to an appropriate height. I don't want my car to ride like a truck so I go with the small block spring usually. 

-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 11:08AM
Don't throw away your old springs!
I may be interested in buying some so I have different rates/height for my Dirt Race Car.


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 11:56AM
Originally posted by cowboyupdjcarl cowboyupdjcarl wrote:

Don't throw away your old springs!
I may be interested in buying some so I have different rates/height for my Dirt Race Car.
 
Who is this meant for? My fronts are gone to scrap cause they were cut with a torch. My rears however are in excellent shape and are painted a blue if you are interested before I toss them too. Wink


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 1:56PM
I have to go back and check the spring pressures. I have a few, but I need a couple front for a big block car. I can cut them down to height I need.
 
Stock is not progressive right? So if I cut them, they still have the same rate just shorter?


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 27-August-2010 at 3:33PM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

I am going to have my fronts as a winter project, and want to check brand and model you used. 
 

This is what I'm going with. Already bought!!

MOOG Part # 80090
1998 - 2002 Crown Vic
1998 - 2002 Mercury Grand Marq
Inside DiaBar DiaInstall HeightLoad rate (lbs)Spring Rate (Lbs/in.)Free HeightEnd Type
4.04                           0.781                  11.75                    2034                      710                         14.38                     One Square End and 1 Tangential End


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 30-August-2010 at 5:31PM
Carl...look up here:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Street-Stock-Replacement-Front-Springs,166.html
Stock replacement front spring. 12" tall with no spacer needed. Fits most street stocks with 5-1/2" springs. Ground flat on one end. Available in the following rates: 925, 1000, 1150, 1250, 1350 and 1450 lb.

I need to dig out my old Speedway Motors oval catalog, but if you are going dirt racing, just stick in a superstock spring of around 1000-1400 pounds. You can also pick up rear springs there as well in Lincoln, NE and get them shipped cheap.
WARNING: these springs not meant for street driving kids. Not unless you want the fillings rattled out of your teeth.

Jim- That spring, I'm curious, but you have a 429...I am running a 351c.
I know Gary in his killer red '73 I think stuck CV springs in, but I don't recall. I just need to lift my nose back up a little. My springs are a tick too short I think.



-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 31-August-2010 at 2:28AM
Originally posted by cowboyupdjcarl cowboyupdjcarl wrote:

Don't throw away your old springs!
I may be interested in buying some so I have different rates/height for my Dirt Race Car.

I've got a set of 302 springs from my LTD II I parted. Interested? 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 31-August-2010 at 7:37AM
probably to light, but thanks anyway.
 
72 Gran Torino with a 351W barreling 80 mph into a corner I THINK I am going to need a pretty stiff spring.
Andy, I am already looking at Speedway. Thanks


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 31-August-2010 at 10:01AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Jim- That spring, I'm curious, but you have a 429...I am running a 351c.
I know Gary in his killer red '73 I think stuck CV springs in, but I don't recall. I just need to lift my nose back up a little. My springs are a tick too short I think.

I can't say for sure if they will lift it for you like you want it too, but it is a stiffer spring and I don't think the dif between the 429 and 351 would make any significant difference.


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 01-September-2010 at 4:37PM
Yes I installed CV Police car springs in my GTS and ride height is perfect  I think part#D9AZ-5310-W was the ones. have to check my records.

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 01-September-2010 at 4:51PM
CV Police Springs
MOOG Part # 80090


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 01-September-2010 at 5:28PM
I checked my notes on the specs of my springs almost identical to the ones you have from Moog!! I thought they looked similar. good find!

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 02-September-2010 at 6:01AM
Gary-
What do you show for a cost on the CV springs from Ford?


-------------
Andrew


Posted By: dvldog2513
Date Posted: 02-September-2010 at 7:04AM
Before you pick out a set of stock coil springs for the dirt track .Check the rules for the class you are going to be racing in because from the rates i have seen on this post they are to lite .You need to know what the weight of the car if the track is banked or flat size of the track 3\8 mi,4\10mi. I've been racing dirt track on and off since 1993 and i'm still learning.I race a 3400 pound car 1200# r\f 1000#l\f 225# r\r 275#l\r 4\10 mi banked track 2nd gear auto 4.10 rear end . I'm running afco racing springs. Check out Day motorsports they deal in dirt track parts .


Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 02-September-2010 at 4:14PM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Gary-
What do you show for a cost on the CV springs from Ford?
Well guess what? Ford has stopped making them!! Go figure!

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 03-September-2010 at 10:31AM
Originally posted by Torinogts73c Torinogts73c wrote:

Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Gary-
What do you show for a cost on the CV springs from Ford?
Well guess what? Ford has stopped making them!! Go figure!

That's why I bought these....

CV Police Springs
MOOG Part # 80090

Amazon has the cheapest price. Basically the same spring as factory.


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 04-September-2010 at 1:11AM
He's right the specs are the same!

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 04-September-2010 at 5:55AM
Jim, never used Amazon, but had a buddy show me them when I was looking for my Xbox live membership and how cheap you could find it on there.

-------------
Andrew


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 04-September-2010 at 10:33AM
Free shipping too!

-------------
Jim




Posted By: moose0211
Date Posted: 05-September-2010 at 3:38AM
So, CVPI springs MOOG Part # 80090 coils will work with no modifications and give the best ride height. Gary, did you cut any coils off of it?



-------------
Lou and Brad

1972 Gran Torino- 351C/4r70w
1970 Chevy C30


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 05-September-2010 at 7:00PM
OK, 80090 I find on Ebay, listed as rears. What about the fronts??

-------------
Andrew


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 06-September-2010 at 5:35AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

OK, 80090 I find on Ebay, listed as rears. What about the fronts??

MOOG 80090 are front springs not rear. Get 'em from Amazon. Save $$$$


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 06-September-2010 at 5:51AM
Got to wait a bit, if you pick up those wheels off me, THEN I get the springs Wink

-------------
Andrew


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 06-September-2010 at 6:25AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Got to wait a bit, if you pick up those wheels off me, THEN I get the springs Wink

LOL sounds like a plan. I will call you when I get a chance. Let me know a good time.


-------------
Jim




Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 06-September-2010 at 6:38AM
My phone is charging right now, but I am actually getting off the imac so I can go outside and start digging out crap from one of the sheds. Wacko

-------------
Andrew


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 06-September-2010 at 7:32AM
Originally posted by moose0211 moose0211 wrote:

So, CVPI springs MOOG Part # 80090 coils will work with no modifications and give the best ride height.


With what engine/combo and what height? 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 07-September-2010 at 1:50PM
I didn't cut any coils they are stock CVPI springs. 351CJ, C-6, A/C , Comp. suspension

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: GA Army Vet
Date Posted: 22-November-2010 at 5:38PM
Swaping the 1973 GTS 351c to a 460, A/C and P/S nothing stripped, live in the mountains and want to have a good handeling car. NOT A SPORTS CAR, but something that wont roll the car to bad. I know its an old car, but looking to hold the engine as well as slow her roll.
 
Please dont reply with all the number as I read this post twice and didnt get the numbers. I just need a pt # someone else used. Also I have a boken back so I am not looking to have a stiff ride. I do like it soft. I am picking up a rearsway bar and front upgrade. This guy that lives in my housing area told me he has coilover shocks that will fit, and wants to sell them he said they would stiffen up things but not to bad... Any info on this


-------------
1973 GTS-351c C6 28sp axle 2.73gears (looking to change)



2004 electric wheelchair super fast!



Disabled Iraq Vet, IED boke my back and severed my nerves into my legs I can walk but it hurts bad.


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 05-December-2010 at 4:50PM
All this talk on the front springs...
 
What about the REARS...
 
What MOOG Cargo Coils is anyone running?
More info I found in the MOOG book at O'Reilly's and on the phone with Andy
REAR SPRINGS
    Free HT Install HT Rate/Weight Price
72-79 ALL CC801 14.5 9.75 192/870 95
Wagon CC803 14.19 9.75 305/1330  
75 torino CC807 15.25 ?? 180/1000 114.99
73-76 Wagon CC811   10.5 315/1350 81.99
79 and newer ALL CC819   12.69 200/780 95
 
Looks like CC801will keep stock height, 803 will be ROCK HARD, 807 might raise the rear a little but be a decent ride, the 811 is rock hard and higher,819 is WAY taller but softer ride
 
So I am getting a set of 801's for the yellow car that will have the wheels tucked inside the wheel lip, but probably need the 807 for the 3.5BS slots on "Ol' Brown" to give it a little more height and stiff to make sure it doesn't rub on top of the tire.


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 06-December-2010 at 1:23PM
I bought the CC811's. Hoping they'll plant the big 325/50R15 Mickey Thompson E/T. Drag Radial's Wink

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Jim




Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 06-December-2010 at 3:39PM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

I bought the CC811's. Hoping they'll plant the big 325/50R15 Mickey Thompson E/T. Drag Radial's Wink
WOW really?
that is gonna be one hell of a stiff ride!!!
Pic of the car with them installed?


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 06-December-2010 at 4:11PM
I have the CC801's on my car. They can be seen a few pages back. There was no difference in height from the springs that were on the car when I got it. As far as ride they are fine to me as far as bumps go. I cant tell cornering because I have big MT Sportsmans that sway a ton and a 4.56 locker that I prefer to take it easy on. Smile

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68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 06-December-2010 at 4:53PM
Originally posted by Blueoval76 Blueoval76 wrote:

Ok so here is a few pics of the front suspension and I still dont see a difference except that one coil is bunched up at the bottom vs one being with normal gap. Maybe its just me! Lol!

New springs...
 
 
Old springs...
 
 
Upper A arms with old springs...
 
I just noticed you have 2 different Upper A-Arms!!
The passenger side is the HD/PI one it has screw in upper control arm bushings.
The driver side is the standard press-in upper control arm bushings.
That should not affect ride height from side to side but it could cause issues with other front end geometry.


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 06-December-2010 at 5:01PM
Lmao!! So you dont think that would make the pass. side sit any higher at all or anything? I don't know for sure as it might be all in the rear where the chassis was set up. I think the only way to find out for sure is to get it to a chassis shop to see if they can figure it out. Thanks though I am glad to know that It is a PI A-arm as I knew there was something different about that arm. I think its safe to assume that the lower is also from the PI and also maybe the spindle.  

-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 1:58AM
The lower CA and spindle are the same.
Only difference in control arms is the 72 has 2 ball joint options, press-in and bolt-in.
The 73 and up only had press-in.
The Spindle difference was in bearing size on the 72, but not in ride height areas. 


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 3:17AM
I wish I could be more help in this thread. My Cougar has PST springs front and rear. Fronts are progressive rate, had a coil cut out of it, and then heated.. Yeah I know I know. I didn't do it personally. They came in my other Cougar. I was happy with the handling and stance, so they went into my car. 

In the other car.


And transferred to the white Cougar.



-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 3:44AM
Originally posted by cowboyupdjcarl cowboyupdjcarl wrote:

The lower CA and spindle are the same.
Only difference in control arms is the 72 has 2 ball joint options, press-in and bolt-in.
The 73 and up only had press-in.
The Spindle difference was in bearing size on the 72, but not in ride height areas. 
 
 
Last night I was looking at the pics and there is a spot where you can scroll and you will be able to see both lower control arms on your comp screen at the same time. To me there is a difference in the thickness of the pass. vs the drivers don't know if it even would affect it but it sure loks different. There is a deeper notch in the pass. one and it looks thinner. I dont know maybe its just the angle of the shot? I just really hate a lean but looks like I am stuck with one for a while as I ran into a brick wall on funding for my car now. Cry


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68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 5:16AM
I know if I had mismatched control arms like that, I probably wouldn't be able to sleep at night.



-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 5:47AM
Originally posted by Blueoval76 Blueoval76 wrote:

Originally posted by cowboyupdjcarl cowboyupdjcarl wrote:

The lower CA and spindle are the same.
Only difference in control arms is the 72 has 2 ball joint options, press-in and bolt-in.
The 73 and up only had press-in.
The Spindle difference was in bearing size on the 72, but not in ride height areas. 
 
 
Last night I was looking at the pics and there is a spot where you can scroll and you will be able to see both lower control arms on your comp screen at the same time. To me there is a difference in the thickness of the pass. vs the drivers don't know if it even would affect it but it sure loks different. There is a deeper notch in the pass. one and it looks thinner. I dont know maybe its just the angle of the shot? I just really hate a lean but looks like I am stuck with one for a while as I ran into a brick wall on funding for my car now. Cry
WOW! You are correct!!
I can see the right front has a big step down from the ball joint to the spring perch compared to the driver side!
 
OK, NOW someone needs to look into LCA part #s.
That would be a good thing to know, looks like the passenger side LCA will lower the car 1/2".
OR maybe the driver side is the alternate one designed to RAISE the car?
Maybe the PI/HD upper CA is designed different as well to compensate for that drop?
OR the HD PI arm is the one with less drop?
 
 THAT is not angle of the photo!!
Both photos you can tie rod ends, ball joint zerk fitting and mufflers further back at about the same point.
Actually it was a great free hand picture comparison! Clap
 
MORE RESEARCH NEEDED!


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 5:57AM
I bet everyone is running out ot their cars and parts stash to check LCAs now!
Clap


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 6:17AM
Originally posted by cowboyupdjcarl cowboyupdjcarl wrote:

The lower CA and spindle are the same.
Only difference in control arms is the 72 has 2 ball joint options, press-in and bolt-in.
The 73 and up only had press-in.
The Spindle difference was in bearing size on the 72, but not in ride height areas. 
    There is only ONE lower control arm for our cars from 72-79!! Makes no difference if police or not. Police cars had different upper arms with solid bushings. The ball joints in question refer to early pre 72 Fairlanes and Torino, 67-71.

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 6:25AM
Part #'s D7AZ-3078-A for the right D7AZ-3079-A for the left. That was the updated # from Ford .Originally the part # was D3AZ-3078-A & D3AZ-3079-A. 

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 6:30AM
Originally posted by Torinogts73c Torinogts73c wrote:

Originally posted by cowboyupdjcarl cowboyupdjcarl wrote:

The lower CA and spindle are the same.
Only difference in control arms is the 72 has 2 ball joint options, press-in and bolt-in.
The 73 and up only had press-in.
The Spindle difference was in bearing size on the 72, but not in ride height areas. 
    There is only ONE lower control arm for our cars from 72-79!! Makes no difference if police or not. Police cars had different upper arms with solid bushings. The ball joints in question refer to early pre 72 Fairlanes and Torino, 67-71.
 
THANKS
So it would appear there is a different LCA on his car from one of the other cars?
My research showed the same bushings, ball joints and other parts were used on a bunch of cars.
maybe the LCA is off one of the bigger cars...72-76 Tbird for instance?
in the pics you can CLEARLY see a difference in the LCA.


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: Torinogts73c
Date Posted: 07-December-2010 at 6:47AM
Haven't figured that one out yet!! The Torino arms are also used by LTD's T-birds and Mark V's so that can't be the answer. I'm looking into it though.

-------------
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"



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