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Modular Drivetrain Into '76 Torino

Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Model Specific Forum
Forum Name: 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
Forum Description: Technical discussion for 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=4989
Printed Date: 28-March-2024 at 6:18PM
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Topic: Modular Drivetrain Into '76 Torino
Posted By: unlovedford
Subject: Modular Drivetrain Into '76 Torino
Date Posted: 04-February-2011 at 6:33AM
I am thinking about installing a 4.6 out of a Crown Vic or a DOHC 4.6 out of a Mark VIII in our '76 Torino. I would be using the complete drivetrain with wiring and ECM and would most likely will purchase an entire vehicle (wrecked/P71 Cruiser/great deal?) - reducing the amount of effort necessary to co-ordinate parts. Has anyone tried this? Engine mounts can be fabricated, but my main concern is hood clearance and type of oil pan setup. I believe the width of the Torino should accomodate these abnormally wide engines. Current drivetrain is the original 351W/C4. Please give any input, as the current engine is just shot (transmission was rebuilt shortly before parking it, but has been sitting for many years). Looking for longevity, good performance and ease of obtaining replacement parts, rather than just an all out performance aspect. What do you folks think? The whole idea started when we decided to find a wrecked F150 with the 4.6/5.4 drivetrain to donate to our '68 Ranger. Please let me know.
 
Thanks,
 
Joe


-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)



Replies:
Posted By: iangj
Date Posted: 04-February-2011 at 8:51AM
I think it's a GREAT idea! In fact I would even contemplate doing just that if I had another car that I wouldn't want to a full on resto.
I'd be grabbing a 4.6 3V & 6 speed auto just like what is in my '09 F150.  300HP right out of the box. The truck goes like stink and hauls my big 30' Toyhauler no problems.
It has been done to a Torino I think. I seem to remember it posted somewhere. Definitely done to a Mustang.
Even better would be either the newer 5.0 Coyote or the Ecoboost twinturbo 6 banger.


-------------
Ian Glyn-Jones
Fonthill, Ontario, Canada
Wish I had My Baby Back


Montego GT Registry
Forum; http://mmgt.forumchitchat.com/


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 09-February-2011 at 4:20AM

I appreciate the information. P71 Crown Vics are reasonable around here when purchased at auction (which is why I was considering one) and I can use the front suspension on my '68 Ranger. Kind of a dual purpose donor, so to speak. My car will not be nearly as nice as some of these I have seen on here, but the sentimental value I place on it makes the effort worthwhile. Besides, I really want to meet all of you folks in September, and this seems to be a somewhat direct path to getting the car roadworthy again.



-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Hey Z
Date Posted: 09-February-2011 at 4:38AM
If it were me I'd go with the greater torque potential of the 5.4 over the 4.6 for our heavy cars.  Sounds like a very cool project so if you dive into it you need to keep us posted.


Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 09-February-2011 at 6:09AM
I rented an E350 van from Penske this past week. I was very UNimpressed with the power levels of the 5.4L. I think this is due to bad gearing and only a 4-speed automatic transmission that likes to upshift and drop into lockup as fast as possible. Even tow/haul mode did no favors. I had to shift manually to keep it from bogging down. Once in 4th and lockup on the interstate, it's absolutely GUTLESS.

I will request a GMC van next time, the 6.0L with the Allison transmission has gumption.

But I did like one thing about the 5.4L. It had a great sound from about 2500-5500 even with the plain stock exhaust on that 16-foot box van. Was a 2009 model. But a great bark is worthless when there is no bite. Penske should have splurged for the V10 or the diesel in those Ford vans.

-------------
08 Uplander LS, 262K, broken again
08 Explorer EB, 195K, for the wife
still looking for another something


Posted By: Ron Earp
Date Posted: 09-February-2011 at 7:35AM
You might want to have a look at this diagram. The mod motors (DOHC) are quite large and sport a low output per cubic foot of space. The 429/460 BB isn't shown in this diagram but it is not as wide as the mod motor. Bear in mind the upper intake plenium is not shown for the mod motor (the black lined motor). It is wide and tall, but it s bit shorter than the others when they are used in factory configuration. The FEs, 460s, and 351s can be shortened a bit with careful cover/pump selection.




-------------
04 Ford Lightning
72 GTS BB Stroker & Toploader
98 Mustang ITS SCCA #38
08 Buell Ulysses
http://www.gt40s.com" rel="nofollow - GT40s.com


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 10-February-2011 at 5:55AM
Holy cow! I knew these were wide, but had no idea they were that much wider than an FE. I will have to do some more in-depth measuring of the engine bay before proceeding. I glanced at a CV one afternoon and then looked at the engine bay on my Torino (swallowed the Windsor) and figured it would be tight, but might fit with little or no problems. I had assumed the oil pan would be the major stumbling block. Last night, a friend called me and asked why I just didn't get a 5.8 FI/AOD setup out of a F150/Bronco and swap it into the car - Fuel Injected, minimal changes. Intake height might be close, but 5.0 upper intake and plumbing may adapt. Better than my current arrangement, and no need to cause myself additional grief. I would really like to get rid of the current carb and current electronics in favor of the better updated systems now available. Something in the pit of my stomach just fears being stuck on the side of the interstate with an angry female in a car not driven since the mid 80's... " I TOLD YOU WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN MY CAR!!!"  Gives me the chills, lol.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 10-February-2011 at 6:20AM
Ok Joe that last statement is funny and I have heard it too many times!! Lol! However just to compare a little bit. If you have a carb the only thing that usually would cause an issue is a stuck needle and seat or trash in the filter. Other than that the ignition is the other item on the list in the case of a breakdown. I know there is the other internals but that is in any motor FI or Carb. Now lets look at the Modular. Two top issues I know of on a mod is the coil packs, and the spark plug threads. Also you are looking at alot of sensors that at any time could go bad and if you dont add a CEL and a OBD port you wont know what is wrong. You will also have to worry about an electric fuel pump and the pressure regulator. I dont want to kill your idea so please dont take offense as none is meant. Cool I just want to rationalize the cost involved on just the basics of this once you have it swapped in. I am an old school carb guy and though the thought of a stand alone FI on my motor I am building sounds cool I would be afraid of failure of components.

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68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-February-2011 at 7:15AM
Back in my AOL days, I remember a guy in one of the chat rooms had a mark IV Lincoln with a 5.4 swap. Of course no pics, but it seemed doable from the way he described it. 

-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 12-February-2011 at 2:19AM
Originally posted by Ron Earp Ron Earp wrote:

You might want to have a look at this diagram. The mod motors (DOHC) are quite large and sport a low output per cubic foot of space. The 429/460 BB isn't shown in this diagram but it is not as wide as the mod motor. Bear in mind the upper intake plenium is not shown for the mod motor (the black lined motor). It is wide and tall, but it s bit shorter than the others when they are used in factory configuration. The FEs, 460s, and 351s can be shortened a bit with careful cover/pump selection.


Great pic for comparison.   The only thing not shown here is the EFI setup for the 351W.  It would add more height to the old Winsor motor as compared to the modular motor where the intake sits low in between the heads.   It would be an accurate comparison for the aftermarket throttle body fuel injection such as the FAST setup.   I've been thinking of the 5.4L or the new 6.2L as a swap vs sticking with a stroked 351C.   Problem is that I want EFI and I can't find anything for the Cleveland.

-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 12-February-2011 at 3:31AM
That is where you get something like this!!! I have been looking at it everytime I pick up my Summit catalog.
 
 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-70026/ - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-70026/
 
 


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 12-February-2011 at 4:18AM

That looks pretty interesting.   I can't decide to try to adapt some multiport EFI or use a throttlebody setup like this one.   Trickflow is suppose to release a manifold for the Cleveland to adapt a multiport EFI, but nothing released so far.    I have time.   I'm busy fixing the interior then suspension/brakes/wheels.

Do you know of any comparison info regarding this injection setup vs others?

-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 12-February-2011 at 4:56AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

That looks pretty interesting.   I can't decide to try to adapt some multiport EFI or use a throttlebody setup like this one.   Trickflow is suppose to release a manifold for the Cleveland to adapt a multiport EFI, but nothing released so far.    I have time.   I'm busy fixing the interior then suspension/brakes/wheels.

Do you know of any comparison info regarding this injection setup vs others?
 
 
 
I mentioned above that I am a Die Hard Carb guy and always have been. However I am like in a trance with this system!!! Lol! I love it and really would love to try it out, but it is not in my budget for my build. Check out this link and watch the video at the bottom. This system is really trick and I love how it uses a Wideband O2 cause they are much better for tuning since it makes its own adjustments.
 
http://www.squidoo.com/powerjection-iii-fuel-injection-systems-Review - http://www.squidoo.com/powerjection-iii-fuel-injection-systems-Review
 
One note though is that the throttle body WILL NOT fit with a large cap dist. cause it is longet than a standard double pumper.


-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: JimW
Date Posted: 15-February-2011 at 5:54AM
Don't be scared of the Mod swap.  The P71's run forever with major abuse and once you have a 4.6 2V in there, the 3V, the 4V, the 5.0 4V, the 5.4 2V, 3V, and 4V and the 6.8 2V and 3V V10 will swap in bellhousing and engine mount wise, then it's computer, exhaust and intake worries. Remember, for all it's impressive dimensions, even the 5.4 4V will fit in a Fox Mustang..
 
They are definitely large for the hp output, and I am first to admit that the stroker BBF is awesome, (just woke mine up from hibernation on Sunday) but for a distance driver that you don't need to run below 14.0 seconds, a mod could be a good choice.  You can get an easy factory OD transmission in auto or manual, and they are smooth and efficient engines that sound great when properly exhausted. 
 
Sure, a 351 can go to 427+ ci, have easy FI, be small and light and majorly powerful, but the visual cool factor of the 4V (whether 4.6, 5.0 or 5.4) is tough to deny as it looks like a 7/8 scale boss 429.
 
Honestly?  I am being selfish here, I really want someone to do it so I have inspiration to try it myself.  I've been kicking it around ever since 2005 when I saw a turboed 5.4 4V with a high rise intake on it in a Gen 2 Lightning, even spent an hour+ talking to Lidio Iacobelli about tuning and such before wimping out and putting together the 545...
 
 
Jim
 
 


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1976 S&H Gran Torino

460/C6/4.33 13.05@105.6

545/C6/3.56 11.52@117.8

More to come!!!!

463rwhp/495rwtq

two tons of fun

see it and hear it at:

www.torinocobra.com

www.st


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 15-February-2011 at 7:58AM
I have been doing some investigation on the spark plug issue on these engines. It seems that from 1997-2004 Ford used heads on the 4.2/4.6/5.4/V10 that had 4-6 threads per plug. The plugs will work loose from normal engine vibration or heat/cooling cycles over time. The aluminum threads in the heads are not strong enough to withstand this and the plug will soon eject (taking the coil pack with it). A warning sound is a slight "exhaust leak" or "ticking" noise eminating from the head. Apparently, the proper fix is to remove the head and install steel inserts into each plug hole. I don't see where 4.6 engines from '92 -96 have this issue (they have an inferior head design, but that is from a performance standpoint alone) nor engines in this family built after '04. I love these engines, the smooth sound they can make with a simple intake/exhaust swap and like the economy, but it seems that I should be looking for a newer donor car (05-up).
 
Fenderwell clearance with the 2V modular engines is no problem. When you step up to the 3V and 4V engines, the suspension appears to provide an obstacle with exhaust manifolds in some instances. I am actively investigating different solutions to that. Again, some creative modifications to the metal fenderwells might be in order. I really would like to try this, but will have to keep an eye out for the Police auctions to snag a late model P71. On that note, I spoke with the super over the Police motorpool and he reccomended that I try to find out the location where a particular vehicle was used to determine if it would be the better car. According to him, a highway pursuit car is a bad choice over a town cruiser (the opposite of what I would have guessed). Reason? Cruisers around town have short bursts of full throttle and more steady speeds, whereas the highway vehicles sit stationary and every time they move it is matted to the floor for extended periods (high speeds) to overtake their target - then parked at idle and the whole cycle starts again, over and over. A donor truck is absurdly expensive. So now I am waiting for the auction to see if the pricing on a late model P71 is worth the gamble. A Torino with the sound of an X-piped, flowmaster equipped late model GT is awfully enticing...


-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 15-February-2011 at 9:31AM
here's a thread, 1994 4.6 2V going into a 72 Ranchero, http://www.musclecarowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=854 - some of you may have seen it on another board also
 
http://www.musclecarowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=854 - http://www.musclecarowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=854
 
PDW decided to graft the Crown Vic frame clip onto the Ranchero rear frame


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 15-February-2011 at 3:20PM
As pointed out, I was going to suggest that thread.
Another option, if you can, take the rear sump mod pan, cut at rails, cut the pan oil pickup, rotate 180 degrees, tig weld back together.
Guy I know took and had a '95 lincoln, wrecked, saved the entire setup and dropped into a starliner and was just a perfect fit and setup.
Frankly, as I have stated before, I would find a 2003 CVPI or newer, clip front frame for the larger brakes and rack and pinion setup. Only issue then is you have to run late model high offset wheels in the front, but you could order late model mustang wheels in the 5x4.5/114mm bolt pattern.
And, yes, I would find a freaking 6.2 from a Raptor or 3/4 ton F series. And bolt a t56 to it.Evil Smile



-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 16-February-2011 at 2:53AM
Well, not suprisingly, I have hit a detour with the Torino that might pay off in spades. Last night, a buddy called wanting to sell a '97 Ford Econoline van cheap. It has the 4.2 V6 (80K miles) with the overdrive transmission. Thinking ahead, I bought it and will try to install this combo in our '68 Ranger (better gas mileage while gas is so high - and I can drive/enjoy it without so much guilt, then install a larger engine later). Since it is from the same family as the modular engines, I can experiment with it and see what is involved so not to hack up the Torino. Admittedly, it is not a V8, and the engine bay in a Ranger is far different from a Torino, but it will give me some insight, as the donor van was able to be equipped with the 4.6 and 5.4 engines as well. Sounds far-fetched, but any hands-on experience is better than none, and in this case I will probably need all that I can get. Better to spend $500 on a van that will provide some insight and parts rather than going blindly into a $2K CV and need a shrink by the time it is over. Besides, the van will junk for about that.
 
Back to the Torino. I completely agree that clipping the frame would make the most sense as far as the mechanical simplicity. My concern would be how the Torino body panels would go with the new CV front frame mounting points (bumper, core support, etc.).
 
I doubt anyone would be interested in a thread to the 4.2 swap into the truck, but if there is anyone, I would be happy to post pics and a step by step account.
 
Thanks to all of you guys for the response and advice.


-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 16-February-2011 at 10:03AM
Upon further research, I stand corrected - the 4.2 is of the older "Essex" engine family (3.8, 3.9, 4.2) and not a modular engine. It is a pushrod type. Still going to try it though, as the worst that can happen is that I end up with a 200 horse V6 in a truck that had a pieced together 302 with a cam and an old FMX. You may laugh at me in person if we drive it to the show in September. Bet it will have quiet mufflers on it, lol.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 23-February-2011 at 10:04AM
Somewhere on this forum is my post about my intent to install a 4.6 DOHC from a 03 Lincoln Aviator into my 72 project.  I just today hung the 4.6 DOHC into the engine bay.  Once lowered in the right side exhaust manifold hit the crossmember and the left side manifold hit the steering box.  Bad part was the engine still needed to go down a little lower.  So I started looking at mid to late 90's Crown Vic frame dimensions.  The front clip idea would definetly work.  What I am thinking about is swapping the whole frame and having all newer brakes suspension and everything.  More research is on the way.......

-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 23-February-2011 at 11:23AM
Looking forward to hearing your results.   I've been thinking about this as well.   Perhaps in the far future with the new 6.2L.   I haven't decided yet.

-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 23-February-2011 at 1:29PM
what would happen if you swap the X manifolds side to side with the outlets down & forward?


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 23-February-2011 at 3:08PM
The outlet is not the issue on the right side, it's the lack of space.  The manifold is laying on the crossmember.  Another thing that had crossed my mind was flipping the manifolds backwards and twin turbos!!!!  Still have the clearance issue but crown vic frame should solve that.

-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 24-February-2011 at 2:11AM
Looks like the answer would be to get a CV frame and start measuring, unless someone has already done that. If I go ahead with the Modular, I will be sure to address the plug issue while the engine is out, since it would be a bear to do afterward. Surely, with all of us sorting it out, we can come up with something.

On a side note, the DOHC engines out of Marks and Stangs are quite a bit wider than the SOHC engines, so that might make a difference on installation. I have gravitated towards the SOHC engines because of their abundance, economy, and size. I realize that my Torino will never be a fast car, and I am ok with that since I have others that can play that part. What I am after is lighter weight, economy (so I can drive it often without guilt), and something that I can throw around corners unlike most cars of that era (working on suspension mods).

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 24-February-2011 at 2:26AM
Sounds like:
1.  Get Crown Vic rolling chassis (perhaps used police interceptor) with the powertrain
2.  Transplant the Gran Torino body onto the CV chassis
 
Sounds like thats where your headed.    So... putting a modular engine into the Torino wont fit.  Motor is to wide and hits the frame rails?
 


-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: Blueoval76
Date Posted: 24-February-2011 at 3:18AM
Sounds like an episode of West Coast Customs!! Lol! They have done exactly that more than once.

-------------
68 Galaxie Wagon 390/auto/2.70
03 Bonneville some mods


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 24-February-2011 at 7:09AM
a little more than a motor swap but brings along with it more benefits. 4 wheel disc, Watts,  even power Rack & Pinion in the 2003+'s
 
what's the difference in wheelbase?


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 24-February-2011 at 1:46PM

I'm just looking to lift the body up and roll a 2003 Crown Vic frame under it.  Then install the 4.6 DOHC in it with a 4R70W trans.  Pretty much a marauder powertrain.  03 Crown Vic wheel base is 114.7",  Torino 114".  Seems like a match made in heaven!  I had a 03 Town Car (same frame) up in the air at work today, and the frame looks like it is maybe 1/2" wider from side to side than the Torino.  However the Torino currently has extra room in the body channels with the stock frame so it should have no problem fitting over the 03 Crown Vic frame.



-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 1:52AM
That is good information about the frame. I wonder how the core support/bumpers/body mounts/etc would interact with the CV frame. I found one on CL that the guy is willing to sell for $600, but it is a '96 and would not have the DOHC engine and rack & pinion steering that I would like. I may wait for the police auctions to get a late model.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 4:39AM
i don't think any CV ever came DOHC, all are 2V SOHC 


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 4:47AM
Thats true...only SOHC.   Thats why Roush put in a DOHC cobra power train in the Crown Vic track vehicles they built for Bondurant driving school

-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 6:50AM
I stand corrected. What I meant to say was that I wanted the better engine found in the late model PI cars. Sometimes my mind outraces my typing skills.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 7:10AM
In 1999 the F-Series 5.4-2V and the Mustang 4.6-2V upgraded to PI
 
2001 for the F150 4.6 and Crown Vic according to the WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine
 
and as mentioned the R&P steering came in 2003. mine has the aluminum
front end components but they got changed to steel at some point


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 7:24AM
is the 1976 Torino a 2 door?
 
wheelbase for the standard Crown Vic is 114.7" and 120.7" for the LWB version
 
wheelbase for the 2 door Torino is 114.0" and 118.0" for the more-door
 
the extra 0.7" would help center the front tire... just about perfect! 


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 9:24AM
My car is a 2 door. I am pretty pumped at the thought of getting this car on the road with modern mechanics. I remember getting around 16 mpg out of the Windsor on a trip years ago, but would like to squeeze more out of it. A 2005-07 is what I would like for the aluminum front suspension and reasonable mileage on the drivetrain. If this turns out well, I may use it more often than I think, given the fact that I work less than 6 miles away from home. I always loved that car, but it was using a quart of straight Kendall 50 wt every 2 weeks when I parked it and the haze pulling away from stoplights was embarrasing - even to a 20 year old.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 10:13AM
www.p71interceptor.com/

This site has great pictures of the late model Crown Vic chassis. Itried to put it on here, but with all the pics, it was a no-go. Will keep researching.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: legend onirot
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 12:45PM
Originally posted by Blueoval76 Blueoval76 wrote:

Sounds like an episode of West Coast Customs!! Lol! They have done exactly that more than once.
 
while reading this thread, i was thinking the same thing.  i actually have been watching street customs (west coast customs) this week on netflix and saw an episode where they dropped a 67 or 68 charger body onto a 2008 charger "frame".  this really has intrigued me.  i wish they showed more of the work and less of the inter-shop drama crap.   all the reality car shows are like this though. 
 
 


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 3:46PM
Here is a pic of my DOHC hanging in the engine bay for the inital size up.  To get it in there that low I had to remove the oil pan, and motor mounts.  Gives you an idea of how little room is in there for a mod motor.  Hince the need for a crown vic frame.

-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 25-February-2011 at 4:42PM
Can you elevate the motor for clearance?
Is there enough room in the trans tunnel for the trans to clear allowing the motor to sit higher between the chassis rails?


-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 26-February-2011 at 1:32AM
Where it is sitting in that picture is about where it needs to be for the trans to clear and intake to clear the hood.  Easily accomplished with the CV frame

-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 26-February-2011 at 2:26AM
Can't you notch the pan, similar to a 5.0 Mustang?

-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: 72sport
Date Posted: 26-February-2011 at 6:43AM
I'm pretty sure Canton make a front sump pan for the 4.6L.


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 26-February-2011 at 6:55AM
The pan is not the clearance issue.  To use a mod motor in a rear steer car of course you have to use a front sump oil pan.  The clearance issue is the exhaust manifolds hitting the frame and the steering box.   CV frame is MY solution.  Anyone else can do what you want.  I want something different and more modern suspension.

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1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: lynchster
Date Posted: 26-February-2011 at 5:23PM
If your inclined to document your project I'm sure you would have a lot of interested followers here on the site. I too have considered using a late Vic chassis for my next project and I'd be interested to see what you run into.


-------------
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig"


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 26-February-2011 at 5:31PM
I plan on it.  But now that I have twins on the way, it's going to delay the project a bit.  It's going to be a drawn out project.  I just keep accumulating parts little by little, they will eventually all come together.

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1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 2:11AM
Thanks for the picture of the mod engine in your Torino. That negates any thoughts of trying that swap in my car with the stock frame. If there were a way to use it, I'm sure the money spent for aftermarket parts and fabricated items (and still have a 1976 era sophisticated suspension) would be in the vicinity of what I would have in a CV frame. Especially once I sell the Vic's body parts, interior, etc. Thanks to all for the input, and I will start a thread on this once I get going. I just bought a later model frame for my bump side Ranger and am going to get started on the 4.2 swap in hopes of having the truck ready by summer.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 4:25AM
The 4.6 modular you have is the same one used in the Thunderbird's right?

-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: lynchster
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 4:53AM
Originally posted by 72project 72project wrote:

I plan on it.  But now that I have twins on the way, it's going to delay the project a bit.  It's going to be a drawn out project.  I just keep accumulating parts little by little, they will eventually all come together.
 
I'm six years of spare time into mine, and I'm getting close to putting the body back on the frame. I know what you mean. I wound up buying a Ranchero as work truck and pacifier.LOL   


-------------
Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport
13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig"


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 6:13AM
Metal can be cut and moved and rewelded.
Myself, clipping a CV frame, or swapping out the entire frame can be done, but do not also forget about the trans tunnel on the CV, the newer overdrive trans seem to be bigger?
 
Headers fabricated could resolve the issue on the steering box.
Buy a fab kit with flages, and make the headers.
 
Don't over think things like I do guys. Then you will take 10 years to get your car nearly done like I have.
I need to pick up a formal roof and a do a test fit.
I'me more inclined to cut the body off the crown vic, to the bottoms of the a pillars, leave the cowl top, cut the B pillars off at the floor, and cut off the quarters but leave the support structure for the wheel houses, trunk brace, etc.
I would drop the torino body tub down on the CV floor pan.
 
That way, you have all the wiring, everything stock on the CV.  


-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 6:40AM
Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Metal can be cut and moved and rewelded.

I'me more inclined to cut the body off the crown vic, to the bottoms of the a pillars, leave the cowl top, cut the B pillars off at the floor, and cut off the quarters but leave the support structure for the wheel houses, trunk brace, etc.
I would drop the torino body tub down on the CV floor pan.
 
That way, you have all the wiring, everything stock on the CV.  



-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 10:23AM
I have a '75 Cougar XR7 that will be arriving in about a month as a donor car. The frame is the same as a Torino, so I can use the body shell and/or frame as a guinea pig for the swap. That way, if something goes south, it won't be my Torino hanging in the air - just the donor Cougar, lol. I was going to use the '72 frame I already have to examine, but the ends are different from my '76. I've been told that the '72 needs to go to the crusher before I can bring another vehicle home, so I'm going to get to wrenching on it and snag what I need.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 28-February-2011 at 3:31PM
PICS of the 75 COUGAR!
Tell me more about it!!!
 


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 01-March-2011 at 2:07AM
I bought the Cougar for a donor for my Torino. It had been sitting for a lot of years in a garage here locally when a friend of mine found it and bought it. He debated about taking anything off it, since it was in such good original shape. Fortunately for me, he used the engine in his Mustang and sold the rest to me. It has a mint bucket seat interior with the gauge package (all going in my Torino) but I will be selling the rest of the car, since the body panels won't interchange with my car. It's a very low mileage car (was a 351/automatic), and I probably would have worked with it, had the engine not been missing and I was not in need of pieces for my '76. I will make pictures of it once it is delivered to the house. Let me know if you need anything off it.
Thanks!

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 01-March-2011 at 2:28AM
where are you located again?

-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 01-March-2011 at 5:56AM
Located in Chattanooga, TN. I will have the Cougar here as soon as I finish getting all the parts off my GTS and send it on to the scrap yard. The Cougar will come with an additional set of American Racing slots that I won't be using - not sure of the size.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 01-March-2011 at 6:38AM
Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Metal can be cut and moved and rewelded.

I'me more inclined to cut the body off the crown vic, to the bottoms of the a pillars, leave the cowl top, cut the B pillars off at the floor, and cut off the quarters but leave the support structure for the wheel houses, trunk brace, etc.
I would drop the torino body tub down on the CV floor pan.
 
That way, you have all the wiring, everything stock on the CV.  

 
No, I am not kidding.
Just like dropping a late 60's mustang shell onto a SN-95/newer mustang unibody.
 
Other things people are not keeping in mind, the CV uses the same tank setup the full size 70's Fords used, the tank is directly behind the axle, in front of the rear upkick for the trunk.
Not like on our cars.
{At least on the CV's I have looked over. If I am wrong, please correct me}
My mentality is save the headache.
Cut the away the CV body-keeping the bulk of the firewall, you can reuse all the latemodel parts such as AC, etc.
I've never bothered to measure dash width on a late model CV, pillar to pillar, but I would think it's damn close.
 
On the Torino shell, slice out the floor pan. Most likely you could leave the trunk floor, but I am guessing there would be issues.
 
Leave the Torino rocker area intact.
Drop the Torino shell over the body, and trim the CV pan as needed. Good time to think about minitubs, or modifying the CV wheel house outers {I had been looking into getting a set off a car to see about using for patch panels}
 
I'm being completely serious here.
 
Bumper/rad support, I'd be inclined to modify the frame horns to accept the Torino bumper, regardless of year, using some 5/16" - 3/8" plate welded up.
Feeling creative, hack off the Original Torino frame horns and graph to the CV frame.
 
Myself, I would stick with the CV rad support as basic structure. Then scope out a CVPI for the larger radiator and all the oil coolers off a CVPI.
 
I know in looking, the CVPI have more material in the frame, and more reinforcements for service duty applications.
I was not aware of different wheelbase versions, unless that's a Lincoln-specific deal for stretched base cars for limo packages.
 
Does anyone know on the late model vics, if there are any TSB's on the material? One thing, from taking classes on frame and structure rapir, some late model stuff on especially the unibody cars, had HSS {high strength steel} that if welded on or heated too much would weaken the material.
Assuming not on the frame, but pointing out for clarification.
Also, one thing Ford has been doing alot has been sandwhiching of metals with different componsional make up {sandwhich different grades of steel, for sound deadening}.
Although, if it's steel, it's weld up.
 
Sorry for rambling, but I am just thinking overall on a retromod project, not just {clip the frame} for the whole package. 


-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 8:49AM

Just FYI...

This guy is putting a shelby 5.4L in a 72 torino.
 
http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/bruce351c" rel="nofollow - www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/bruce351c
 
Mod motors are wide and figured there would be clearance issues with the frame rails.  I'm not sure what this guy did...move rails...etc.   It looks like he got it to fit without swapping frames.   I haven't investigated it.  
 
Nice way to get fuel injection in my Torino if it can be done without cutting the frame rails.
-John


-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 1:14PM
Looks like he made his own crossmember.

-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: 72project
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 1:52PM
On further inspection it looks like he is paying someone else to figure it out for him.



-------------
1973 GTS with 1972 front clip, 4.6 DOHC


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 4:45PM
Something that has been on Ford Muscle a while:
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/makin-progress/498326-72-ranchero-4-6l-mod-swap.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/makin-progress/498326-72-ranchero-4-6l-mod-swap.html


-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 4:55PM
And more on the hub city car:

Frame rails look pinched/flattened if you look close in the picture. Maybe they modified the rails significantly? I would say so.



-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 5:03PM
All I can say is, someone get me a 1972 Formal roof, a CVPI, and this:
http://youtu.be/ca6x7crKhAQ" rel="nofollow - http://youtu.be/ca6x7crKhAQ  or this  http://youtu.be/urjU8QZFSII" rel="nofollow - http://youtu.be/urjU8QZFSII


-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 13-July-2011 at 5:08PM
Damnit. Looks like Kar Kraft Engineering went under. Shame. They were offering front sump pans, and alot of efi to carb adapters. Never mind the fact they also made adapters for alot of other mod motor stuff.

-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 14-July-2011 at 8:51AM
Andy, my thought is this...
 
The 89-97 TBird came with the modular motors so with the front crossmember and stuff welded to the Gran Torino frame rails it would almost be a bolt in?
 
At least I think the pan would work then.
 
When I get this van I am looking at what suspension and sterring it uses then decide the route to go.


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 14-July-2011 at 10:03AM
Exactly. Thunderbirds had 5.0 engines 1991-1993, then 4.6 engines 1994-1997.

Crown Victorias had 5.0 engines through 1991, then 4.6 engines to date.

Lincoln Town Car should be the MOST obvious example. 1990 was the new bodystyle. 5.0 engine 1990 only, then 4.6 engines 1991 up. I would look at 90-91 TC's and take measurements from there first before looking at others.

-------------
08 Uplander LS, 262K, broken again
08 Explorer EB, 195K, for the wife
still looking for another something


Posted By: Eliteman76
Date Posted: 15-July-2011 at 5:38AM
Depends on the direction you want to go. I could see opening up the frame, removing the stock crossmember, and dropping the 94-97 Tbrid structure / K member into the Torino for the setup, but are they a rear steer?


-------------
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems


Posted By: BackInBlack
Date Posted: 19-April-2012 at 6:49AM
Any news on this swap?
 


-------------
-John
1973 GTS


Posted By: unlovedford
Date Posted: 19-April-2012 at 7:59AM
I am still contemplating mine ('76). Now that I have an extra frame and cowl to butcher ('75 GTS), I am hunting for a couple of CVPI from '03-'07 to use as donors. That project will be next year.

-------------
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)



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