Print Page | Close Window

S&H transmission change

Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Model Specific Forum
Forum Name: Starsky & Hutch
Forum Description: Technical discussion for original and replica S&H Torinos
URL: http://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=8643
Printed Date: 16-August-2018 at 2:31AM
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: S&H transmission change
Posted By: boydnl
Subject: S&H transmission change
Date Posted: 21-February-2013 at 4:38PM
Hi everyone this is my first post and I need some input and info please. I got a 74 S&H with the auto on the floor, numbers matching car all original except paint originally just red, I'm a fan of manual transmissions and would love to see my baby with a 6 speed manual down there instead of auto, I think it would help value of it in long run over the loss of numbers matching I'd like some opinions and any info on what the best route to take to do it would be thanks Dan.



Replies:
Posted By: Scott
Date Posted: 25-February-2013 at 5:58AM

The Torino's of this year are not bringing big money for the most part so I say build it the way you want and if you ever sold it people always like gear jammin in the old cars better anyway.So I say it should sell just as easy.



Posted By: Regul8r
Date Posted: 25-February-2013 at 6:16AM
In reality it is a 74 Gran Torino.
Not a true S&H LE car.
So the car has already been changed/modified/no longer stock.
I say that not to put it down but to say... build it the way you want, it is not going to change what it is worth. A 74 Gran Torino is worth what someone is willing to pay, a modern manual done right COULD add to the value. If the modern manual is what you want to do to it... it just added value for YOU and that is what matters!
 
I say go for it!
 


-------------
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired


Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 25-February-2013 at 12:22PM
Thanks guys any ideas on what the best way to do it would be like should I have a shop do it and have it done right and know its gonna work or d it myself saving money but might end up screwing it up and not looking right


Posted By: 75GranMan
Date Posted: 25-February-2013 at 12:58PM
I would start by pricing out the components first,after you get over the shock of what the cost of parts will be.you may have to preform the work yourself.I'm guessing that you'll be near the 2k mark for the parts.And that would be for factory pedal assy,Toploader 4spd set-up.If you go with a hydraulic clutch,you would need to fabricate the set-up as i don't believe a bolt in assy is available.do your homework on this,I converted my first torino to 4spd  way back in the early 80's,I spent about $750 then.I do agree with going with a 5 or 6spd.being that you have a  auto floor shifter already,if factory it will help out by not having to cut the floor.I thought someone on the forum was doing a 5spd install already? anybody?

-------------
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!


Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 25-February-2013 at 1:09PM
I know its gonna be pricy any modification like that is anymore if I could do it for around 3500 or less I would be more than thrilled....I got so much I'd like to do it but I'd need to hit the lottery to get it all done at once lol....right now its the oiginal 351c, and I'd like to build it up later on but its still a strong engine no problems other than it burns a quart of oil every 2500 miles but its a 74 with 86000 miles to be expected in that case. Again I'm appreciating the feedback guys its helping me out I've never had much luck with other forums but I'll definitely do my homework to make sure its done right


Posted By: mkshelton
Date Posted: 26-February-2013 at 12:31PM
are you wanting the extra speeds for higher speed driving? I'm thinking about using a gear vendors overdrive unit. it's also cheap but it could be installed a lot faster.

-------------
"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"


Posted By: mkshelton
Date Posted: 26-February-2013 at 12:32PM
*NOT cheap

-------------
"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"


Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 26-February-2013 at 4:33PM
For race and high performance use I wouldn't suggest it, but if all you want is an extra gear for highway cruising, keep in mind that steady state driving at 60-70mph only uses 80-120hp from your engine, at which point a Laycock overdrive from behind a late 80s Volvo 4-speed manual is what you want. If you've always wondered what a Gear Vendors unit is, feel free to note they are simply the Laycock Model P with a different badge.

Sadly, Gear Vendors doesn't like selling the correct adapters for anyone stripping out a Volvo Laycock unit. They would rather make you pay $2500-$4000 for one of their complete units. For example, they have reworked it to be an integral tailshaft for an FMX for $2795. I barely have $2795 in my engine and transmission as it is including all the tuning and incidental bits I've bought over the years. It's a hard pill to swallow. An AOD swap would be cheaper I'm sure. I have to get my $900+ of use out of this rebuilt FMX first before I go down that road. And there's no way I'm shelling out $2795 for a new GV unit anytime soon.


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 28-February-2013 at 7:39AM
Originally posted by boydnl boydnl wrote:

... should I have a shop do it and have it done right and know its gonna work or d it myself saving money but might end up screwing it up and not looking right
 
just because a 'shop' does it doesn't mean it's gonna be done right OR work
 
i think Occupant can relate


-------------
72 GT Ute
   


Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 01-March-2013 at 2:16AM
All valid points I don't really want high speeds just don't like running 60mph at 2200 rpms, and I'm just a fan of manual transmissions its a great feeling especially behind the wheel of a classic.....I've looked into the aod some as well I was gonna take that route but never could figure out what all modifications or electrical if any needs changed I've not done a lot of custom work so i definitely want it to work and not he gobbled and hacked


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 01-March-2013 at 5:58AM
Ford made a transmission that looks very much like a toploader 4 speed but it's a 3 speed + OD. it's not rated for serious performance but you may find one cheap and might be just what you need?
 
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm
 
 


-------------
72 GT Ute
   


Posted By: occupant
Date Posted: 01-March-2013 at 11:09AM
I wouldn't want one of those, looks way too easy to break.


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 01-March-2013 at 5:32PM
I was going to go that route... but I just can't find one cheap and local. Those cars disappeared off the roads around here 20 years ago. 

As for being easy to break, who does 4th gear pulls in a street car? (sit down, Andy.)


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 01-March-2013 at 10:34PM
i don't know where i found that pic? looks like something Stimpy would build
 
there's alway$ http://www.ddperformance.com/index.php" rel="nofollow - http://www.ddperformance.com/index.php


-------------
72 GT Ute
   


Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 04-March-2013 at 8:27AM
Alright guys I'll admit it I got no clue what the hell I'm doin I'm not a mechanic and don't do my homework like I should.  That being said I didn't see anything in link about a bellhousing or transmission in gerneral that would bolt up to a 74 351 Cleveland, am I not reading it right or is it something that will take more modifications???


Posted By: GranTorinoSport
Date Posted: 04-March-2013 at 8:34AM
Also some of the six speed transmissions are much fatter, which may be a space issue with the hump. Something to consider anyway... Might look to the 60's/70's Mustang world to see what they've done. There are plenty of vintage Mustang owners with very deep pockets and have done probably all of this before.

The first time I heard about using an AOD bolted up to a small block in an older car was from the Mustang world (many years ago), just as an example.

-------------
Scott Eklund

Webmaster


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 04-March-2013 at 9:15AM
Originally posted by boydnl boydnl wrote:

... I'm not a mechanic and don't do my homework like I should.  That being said I didn't see anything in link about a bellhousing or transmission in gerneral that would bolt up to a 74 351 Cleveland... ???
 
by the time you get this project you'll be a mechanic and will have done your homework(recommended even if you pay somebody else to do it, so you can spot if they're on the right track or if they're digging you under using your own $ to do it)
 
the 351C uses the same bellhousing pattern as the 289/302/5.0 & 351W, coincidently the engine mounts are also the same
 
beware 351M and the 400 are different from 351C on bell pattern and engine mounts
 
what type of clutch pedal system are thinking of using? the Torino pedal assy isn't completely unobtainable or unaffordable but they aren't plentiful or cheap either
 
didn't somebody use a Bronco clutch pedal added to the auto hanger assy?


-------------
72 GT Ute
   


Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 07-March-2013 at 4:36AM
Ok, so if I get the transmission with a 5.0 bellhousing it will bolt up...any certain year I would need to get or any year will work?
 
I'm still not sure on what pedal assembly to use, any ideas would be helpful.  I know it would be quite a challenge to find them in a torino as to my knowledge the 74 was the last year they offered the manual trans.  Would the pedals out of an old mustang or pickup truck work and would a hydraulic clutch or cable clutch be better?
 
Thanks again for all the input guys it helps.


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 07-March-2013 at 7:26AM
72-74 Torino. One member here, 302Ford, used the entire pedal setup from an SN95 Mustang.

I was in the middle of this swap collecting parts. I was going either track down OEM parts, or go hydraulic. I think the price differential is about the same, sadly.



-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: Rockatansky
Date Posted: 07-March-2013 at 8:31AM
just to be clear the SN95 pedal assy will not just directly fit into our cars, ATM i'm not sure if the member that used them was able to swap out just the pedals or what?
 
also, there are variations within the torino pedal assy's. the manual brake assy uses an aluminum adapter plate to delete the power booster, the plate also changes the spacing of the pedal assy not sure if it makes a difference?
 
the pivot point on the brake pedal from power/manual is different too, so you'll want to make sure you know how thw car the pedal assy came from was set up from the factory
 
here's an example of what the Torino pedal assy's go for
in some cases it may be possible to buy a parts car for the goodies & come out ahead
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Ford-Gran-Torino-Ranchero-GT-Mercury-Montego-MX-Four-Speed-Clutch-Pedals-/270949995086?fits=Model:Torino&hash=item3f15e0d24e&item=270949995086&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Ford-Gran-Torino-Ranchero-GT-Mercury-Montego-MX-Four-Speed-Clutch-Pedals-/270949995086?fits=Model:Torino&hash=item3f15e0d24e&item=270949995086&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
 
once the pedals are in place you can use either the stock style mechanical linkage or convert to hydaulic


-------------
72 GT Ute
   


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 09-March-2013 at 6:48AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

 
 
here's an example of what the Torino pedal assy's go for

 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Ford-Gran-Torino-Ranchero-GT-Mercury-Montego-MX-Four-Speed-Clutch-Pedals-/270949995086?fits=Model:Torino&hash=item3f15e0d24e&item=270949995086&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Ford-Gran-Torino-Ranchero-GT-Mercury-Montego-MX-Four-Speed-Clutch-Pedals-/270949995086?fits=Model:Torino&hash=item3f15e0d24e&item=270949995086&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

This is a horrible example. This is not what they normally go for. $400 is average. This guy is always way over priced on all his crap. I would never buy anything from him. Caveat Emptor!


-------------
Jim




Posted By: stanman
Date Posted: 09-March-2013 at 12:58PM
Originally posted by 73GTS 73GTS wrote:

Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

 
 
here's an example of what the Torino pedal assy's go for

 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Ford-Gran-Torino-Ranchero-GT-Mercury-Montego-MX-Four-Speed-Clutch-Pedals-/270949995086?fits=Model:Torino&hash=item3f15e0d24e&item=270949995086&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Ford-Gran-Torino-Ranchero-GT-Mercury-Montego-MX-Four-Speed-Clutch-Pedals-/270949995086?fits=Model:Torino&hash=item3f15e0d24e&item=270949995086&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

This is a horrible example. This is not what they normally go for. $400 is average. This guy is always way over priced on all his crap. I would never buy anything from him. Caveat Emptor!
 
Aha. I had a feeling I knew who the seller was by your reaction...and was right.


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-March-2013 at 4:42AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

just to be clear the SN95 pedal assy will not just directly fit into our cars, ATM i'm not sure if the member that used them was able to swap out just the pedals or what?
 

He used the entire pedal box. 

FWIW, I got my Torino pedals for $200 shipped. 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 10-March-2013 at 4:48AM
Paul
I'll take them. PM me
Thanks

-------------
Jim




Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-March-2013 at 6:29AM
LOL Not for sale. Just saying, they are out there. 


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: 73GTS
Date Posted: 10-March-2013 at 7:52AM
Mis read your post, but if you do decide to sell let me know.
Thanks

-------------
Jim




Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 10-March-2013 at 3:01PM
Where is the best place to look for pedals and what do youmean by used whole pedal box not sure I understand that part


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 10-March-2013 at 3:46PM

Pedal box.

I am hoping 302ford will post several nice pics of all this.


-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500


Posted By: boydnl
Date Posted: 11-March-2013 at 9:03AM
Oh that's a pedal box lol.....thanks


Posted By: 302ford
Date Posted: 11-March-2013 at 4:27PM
Sorry, I have been away from this forum for the past little bit. I did use the entire pedal setup out of an sn95 mustang. If I can remember the bolt holes lined up fairly close for the most part. Which I didn't care too much as I reinforced the firewall a bit while I was at it and used the sn95 cobra booster and master as well. 

For those interested I'll see if I can dig up a few pics. I also attached the "pedal box" to the steering column like factory for additional reinforcement. The added stress of a heavy cable clutch will flex the factory firewall quite a bit if you don't. 


Here is a few I can quickly share.

Finished in the car


Factory look.


I have some more.... I just have to remember where I put them..,


-------------
79 LTD II 408/TKO/3.7's

12.52 116.5mph. street tires


Posted By: Psquare75
Date Posted: 12-March-2013 at 1:43AM
Oh my. I didn't realize it all fit together that clean

-------------
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net