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Project TV 2M8O

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Big Bird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2017 at 10:32AM
I liked the movie, I like Clint, but the singing makes me think of Selma and Thelma Patty, or whatever Marge Simpson's sisters are called.

Edited by Big Bird - 28-April-2017 at 11:43AM
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2017 at 9:39AM
Fairly productive day Saturday, necessary wiring harnesses hung to allow engine to be started, core support, fan & belts removed, ignition module plugged in and started plugging all open vacuum ports before getting the call from Debbie that she had fallen and possibly broken her wrist. I quickly covered things up and shut down the lights before getting any pics of the progress.
As my buddy Jim said, it'll all be there waiting on me next weekend!
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JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2017 at 4:06AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**

We had a surprise visit from my daughter and her husband (on leave from the USN stationed in Virginia Beach) this weekend, so there was nothing done on the Tomato. She did want to go see how it was moving along, so I took along the camera to document last weekends progress.....



Edited by TV 2M8O - 07-May-2017 at 4:09AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2017 at 4:08AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
 
Some progress the last couple weekends.

Last Saturday I repaired the ignition key reminder switch...
 

and installed the firewall pad retainers for the driver side pad before moving on to a few major items. Installed the core support and the wheel houses, then clipped the wiring harnesses into position, then hung the starter solenoid and the ignition module...
 
 
 
 
 
 
This Saturday, I got pan bolts and drain plug tightened, transmission support and crossmember tightened up, fluids added...
 


battery cables and engine ground installed, (battery core used for placement)...
 
 


transmission lines jumpered together...
 


and an old distributor converted to oil pump primer...
 


Next weekend I'll tighten up the motor mounts, pull the distributor, wires and plugs, prime the oil pump while turning the crank by hand, reinstall the distributor, wires and plugs, hook up a temporary fuel source, snag the battery outta the Fairlane and LIGHT THIS MUTHA OFF (fingers crossed)!!

Not much longer and I'll be playing the BIG BLOCK BOOGIE!!

Edited by TV 2M8O - 21-May-2017 at 4:23AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2017 at 4:08AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
   
SUCCESS... well sorta. With the help of my brutha Jim Conley, we got the 460 brought to life on Saturday. After removing the distributor, wires and plugs, we primed the engine oil by spinning the the oil pump and turning the motor over by hand during which time we heard a squeek/squawk noise coming from the back of the engine. As we turned the crank, we were able to determine the sound was coming from the bell housing. I made a quick call to the guy who built the transmission for me and after a brief question and answer session, he too was at a loss for the cause and told me to go ahead and fire it up.

With his assurance, we rolled to engine over to the TDC mark on the cranks and reinstalled the distributor, wires and plugs. After connecting the battery, a fuel source and the remote starter trigger, the 460 rolled over for the first time in several years but wouldn't light off....


https://www.youtube.com/embed/aVf58P-lOe4?feature=player_embedded"
 
With no fire getting to the plugs, we located all the harness grounds inside the cabin and jumpered them together and to ground and I also jumpered the engine to firewall lead directly to the negative post of the battery and we tried again.... SUCCESS. We shut her off, attached the timing light to get her timed and lit her off again......

There was a very noticeable chirp coming from the engine, so we crawled under the car and removed the bellhousing inspection plate and rolled the motor over by hand to see if we could see any signs of the torque converter studs dragging on anything. Nothing visible, so we removed the started and spun her over again... again no signs of what was causing the noise.

With the timing set, we fired her up one last time before calling it a day.....

https://www.youtube.com/embed/gb3qHVlpw5I?feature=player_embedded"

Hopefully we'll get some good pointers this week on what the source of the noise may be so I can address the issue and keep moving forward.


Edited by TV 2M8O - 29-May-2017 at 4:20AM
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JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2017 at 11:13AM
Could by chance one of the bolts used for the shift linkage cable bracket be too long and scrapping the flywheel?  Or starter Bendix drive not fully disengaging? Just thoughts.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 6:40AM
**CLICK ON PICS TO ENLARGE AND CLICK AGAIN TO SUPERSIZE**
 
Well a day of regression.... broke my heart to break the transmission away from the engine on Saturday, but we need to get to the bottom of the chirping.
 
 


No signs of rubbing/interference on the torque converter...
 


nor either side of the flywheel...
 
 


or the separator plate.
 
 


There was also no visible warping or cracks on the flywheel and the separator plate was flat as well.

Digging back thru pics of the engine when I first got it, I discovered it originally had a "spoked center" flywheel....
 


rather than the solid one pictured above that came off a later model Lincoln 460. I have another "spoked center" flywheel on the original 460 my Torino came with if that could be the possible source for the noise? Different balancing on the Lincoln 460 versus the Ford 460??

Need to break out the detective kit......

Edited by TV 2M8O - 04-June-2017 at 6:45AM
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JOE
1976 Gran Torino S&H season 2-4 Clone
Project Blog: http://tv2m8o.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 6:58AM
check the offset of the different flex's, they're not necessarily all the same either
 
 
lay them flat on a surface & compare the ring gear position
 
and check how the starter fits into the big hole in the block plate
 
I'm no 385 series expert but i think there are internal & external balanced 460's so i guess you gotta figure that out. did the spacer behind the harmonic balancer have a weight on it or is it just a round spacer?


Edited by Rockatansky - 04-June-2017 at 7:00AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 10:06AM
Were all the flex plate to crank and flexplate to Torque converter bolts tight and equally torqued?
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 10:49AM
joe, what's that mark in the 2 o'clock position from the center of the crank hole?
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 1:01PM
John,

My guess is that it was resting against the block rib around the crank.... I'll have a closer look on Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 1:45PM
it's probably nothing that matters but just saw that stand out in the pics
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 2:38PM
The 460 was internally balanced all the up to 1982-83. So I think he is safe there since both engines where before that time.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 5:05PM
I have heard this noise before..... are you SURE that the converter is seated all the way in the trans? When installing, it should drop two times into the front pump. First "drop" is when it slips onto the input shaft. Second "drop" is when it engages the flats of the front pump gear. I have seen this same chirp when a converter was not engaged in the front pump gear and is just jammed up against it. 

Just food for thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 5:08PM
Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...

With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor. 
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2017 at 10:20PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Were all the flex plate to crank and flexplate to Torque converter bolts tight and equally torqued?

Randy,

Yep.... everything torqued to spec.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 9:03AM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...

With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor. 
Are the 429/460 midplates more durable than small-block plates? Small block ones are aluminum maybe 1/8" thick and wouldn't support the weight of the starter, let alone support it to crank over.
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 10:26AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Also, if you want to try to isolate if it's an internal engine noise, you can do this...

With the trans unbolted, bolt the mid plate to the block with shorter bolts. Install the flywheel. Install the starter in the midplate, and bolt it to the midplate. That will let you start the motor up without the trans. If the noise is gone.... it's not the motor. 
Are the 429/460 midplates more durable than small-block plates? Small block ones are aluminum maybe 1/8" thick and wouldn't support the weight of the starter, let alone support it to crank over.

I WAS WONDERING THE SAME THING! The big block plates are about the same thickness but it is steel....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 11:01AM
I've done it with steel midplates. Was enough support to fire the motor. 

Maybe if you have a spare midplate, you can stack two together to make it a little beefier for that starter. 
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TV 2M8O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-June-2017 at 5:33AM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

I've done it with steel midplates. Was enough support to fire the motor. 

Maybe if you have a spare midplate, you can stack two together to make it a little beefier for that starter. 

A second separator plate will be here for test firing again this weekend... THANKS CARL!!!!!

Wish me luck that there's no squeal running the engine only!
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