The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Model Specific Forum > 1972-1976 Ford and Mercury
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Road / Track Suspension Discussion
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Road / Track Suspension Discussion

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 18>
Author
Message
Eliteman76 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20-March-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-April-2011 at 8:06PM
From the interview I saw on Hub, and the 1.5 hour phone interview on V8TV with Strope on the PV GTS:
The front col overs are a bolt in affair. They made a plate to bolt into the lower control arm, evidently with no modification to the stock suspension.
They clipped the back half on the PureVision car, but this I think was more for to make room for the huge rollers more than anything else.

For consideration of a panhard bar, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Find a mid-late 70's full size Ford LTD. The frames on those cars, after 1975? have the panhard rod setup out back.
Local dirt track guys that are hardcore Ford guys, like my friend Steve out of Colorado has noted this to me.
As before, on street cars, on their 1972 GT Ranchero, and a 1974 Montego MX coupe, they have been running cup spacers, with Eibach 5" OD springs, with rates in the 700-800 pound inch range.
You could run a 1,000 pound hobby stock spring, but the damn car will ride like a dump truck, even if you are running a 429/460 car.

Concerning bars...I asked, and was told in his racing experience, too large of a rear bar can screw up the steering on a 72-79 intermediate chassis.

My thoughts on the bars, with all the used Nascar crap on racing junk and Ebay, why not run a splined bar up front, with the splined end links on the front?

Stuff can be made to work, if others have already done the back ground.
As I've been told before, some times, sure, it's great to be the pioneer blazing the train, but some times it's better to study stuff, and avoid face down on the trail of life mauled by a frickin' bear.

Most of you know, I have a street car, not a race car...but I'll push my car hard as hell at times.
I'm a basic believer in KISS. Stiff springs. Decent HD shocks. larger front bar, and a stock sized rear bar.

My weakness I have on my GTS, I made the mistake of using replacement bushings out back on my rear axle.
I fully plan on replacing my rear upper arms with my police arms, with poly bushings.
The lowers I boxed many years back, but may box another set, and install my poly bushings.

In case you are wondering what can happen with soft bushings out back, enjoy my 2010 Powertour Autocross event: 


When I was on the autocross {first time, I might add} as I powered out of the 180 degree corner, I was not going to a fast time, I was out to have fun. What I had happen though, as I laid into the throttle, I got rear wheel hop, and the ass of the car kept drifting, and suddenly snapped to the right as I was steering into the drift. 
I could of just spun the car, but I did not want to damage things as I was like 1200 miles from Omaha!

Other times, I have been able to just lay into the power and smoke my tires with the same set up.

I'm personally thinking it's the bushings as a key issue. But, as I content I have a "street" car, not been a major rush to tear it apart.

I still have issue though. With my gearing, on the street, at times I have shaken the car so hard, I thought I was going to break something in first gear.
{I had done this 3? years back...left at a light screwing around, shook the ass out from under the car, got it loose, and the engine actually shut off on me.}

Andrew
Back to Top
interceptor460 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 24-February-2009
Location: montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 410
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interceptor460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2011 at 1:03AM
I looked at the list that Blackinblack posted. The 2 inch sway bar isway too much. No mention on a tighter steering box, and what tire size his going to use . There was a mention of 17x 9 inch on a crwn vic. I have scales that placed under  each tire to weigh the car and give the difference of front and rear weigh. If you get these scales or get the car weighed it give a better idea what springs to use. The crown vic 850 lbs /rate spings are look pretty good on a torino. On my package I was thinking of using 545 lbs / rate springs up front. A saginaw box is in place and I prefer that over the ford box. On 14 inch tires on my torinos were quickly replaced with 15 inch tires . With what  tires are out there 16-17-18 inch tires  are even better choice.
Back to Top
Regul8r View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 26-December-2007
Location: Sarasota FL
Status: Offline
Points: 6628
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2011 at 1:44AM
Andy, another thing for peopel to take into consideration is STICK vs AUTO.
Your stick has a higher tendency to wheel hop than an auto.
Sticks transfer the power SOLID and that causes the suspension to absorb the wheel hop(not good at it), the auto will absorb the wheel hop(in actuality it eliminates it by not forcing the suspension to deal with it)
This is a MAJOR problem in the T-Bird SC world too!
The Auto cars do not have a wheel hop problem but the stick will tear the car apart with wheel hop.
In order to fix it in the SC you replace the lower bushings with DELRIN solid bushings. They keep the suspension from flexing as it goes through the range of motion.
Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae"
97 Suzuki Intruder 1400
US Army Retired
Back to Top
Psquare75 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Member of the Stroker Club

Joined: 26-November-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2011 at 3:02AM
I was going to say I have 420 ft lbs at the wheels, and my car just spins smooth as silk if I try to launch against the converter. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2011 at 3:23AM
From Eliteman comment:  I agree with the rear bar comment.   I dont believe anything more than a stock or aftermarket 7/8" bar is needed.   The rear will track follow the front so long as you dont break loose.

cowboyupdjcarl:   Good comments...same past experiences here.   I believe the original 4 speed cars had staggered shocks in the rear to help with wheel hop from the factory.   I plan to use spherical busings in the front of the lower trailing arm and a panard bar.   Good to know about the later model panard bar from Andy.  

Interceptor460:   I'm not sure about 2" bar, but I know I want a bigger bar than stock.  I was thinking 1.5 to 2" range.   I'm not sure because the sway bar is essentially a spring and it has to work with the front spring rates.   I'm still trying to figure out the right combo.  I'm not sure of anything yet.  I like to plan it out before diving in.   Lots of good comments...


Earlier I posted the specs from a Jack Rousch Crown Vic car he built for the Bondurant Driving School.   Jack Rousch has made his share of blunders of the years, but one thing I'm sure of is that he (his organization) knows how to build track cars.   The CV is similar to our Torino.   Its a good data point as a reference regarding what needs to be done to make it handle.   The long wheelbase and nose heavy weight warrants more spring and sway bar in the front.   I think 1000 lbs is to much for a street car cruiser, but 750-850 will probably be about right.  I believe keeping the rear stock with upgraded bushings and panard bar is all thats needed.   A little understeer is a good thing...just a smidge.    


Here is a pic of a spherical bushing that is part of a Total Control Products (TCP) kit to replace the leaf springs in a Mustang with a 4 link suspension (G-link) 


Edited by BackInBlack - 13-April-2011 at 4:15AM
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
Psquare75 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Member of the Stroker Club

Joined: 26-November-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2011 at 3:48AM
Another thing to look at


94-96 Impala SS. They have quite a following. Found this post by accident. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
Back to Top
interceptor460 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 24-February-2009
Location: montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 410
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interceptor460 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-April-2011 at 4:32PM
On both ex cop cars I have 1-1/8 inch bar front and 15/16 anti sway bar on the rear. The front would be better with 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 in front. My 460pi 74 torino had model D4AW-5310AVA  front coils or TRW cs 8336 coils with 442 lbs /rate  coils. The car held good on turns ,but that 460 is a 720 pound engine it is too nose heavy.
  My second cop car has a 400 cid it would be more happy with that model coil. Also when I swaped the saginaw box from a 71 boss mustang it was a different car.
Back to Top
Eliteman76 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20-March-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-April-2011 at 6:11PM
What's really odd was on my 4 speed, with the older smaller 16" tires, I had to smoke the tires in second gear. First gear was too violent.

That autocross vid, I took off in second gear because I was trying to screw around and smoke the tires, and didn't have the RPM's up enough and let the clutch out smoother.

Andrew
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-April-2011 at 6:50PM
Once I finish up the interior, radio, etc. In my car I plan to put in good sway bars, pillar bed them, etc. and see how it works.    I'm going to get the 7/8" or 1" rear bar first, probably Addco.   

Drive it a bit...

Next, I will install an appropriate sized splined solid sway bar of 1 1/2" min with spherical links in the front.  Something like the Schroder bar.   I would prefer to get a stock looking sway bar that is approx. 1 1/2"+, but can't find one.

From there...with the feedback regarding the CVPI springs, decide where to go with the springs/shocks.




Edited by BackInBlack - 20-April-2011 at 6:53PM
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-April-2011 at 4:06PM
This is what I believe is needed for the rear trailing arms...

Its available for GM A body...not sure about the 72+ Torino
-John
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
Psquare75 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Member of the Stroker Club

Joined: 26-November-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-April-2011 at 4:11AM

These? I have a set in my Cougar. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-August-2011 at 6:11AM
Thought this would interest you...
 
This guy is transplanting 04 Mustang Cobra power train suspension in a 68 Torino.   Pretty cool.
 
 
Independent rear suspension for a 04 Cobra.
 
-John
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2012 at 3:21AM
I haven't touched on this in a while.  I'm gonna break it up in front and rear.
 
Some conclusions that I've been coming to...
Front:  Drop no more than 1" in front using springs...bump steer is affected.  May have to put a bump steer fix on if you do more....or....us a 2" drop spindle.     I dont know if Fatman is producing this anymore.   
 
Rear:  Same...1" drop using springs if you do more than it appears to me that the pinion angle will need adjustment.   I have not found any aftermarket upper control arms.   The Chevelle crowd has upper control arms that are adjustable....none found for Torinos.
 
I'm gonna put on a 1 1/2" splined sway bar in teh front.   I already installed the 7/8" in the rear.
 
I also plan on putting in a quick ratio steering box.   These are my plans for the near future.  I'm gonna drop the height using springs by 1" and install the sway bar.   Anymore it appears to me that to many changes will be required to adjust the stock suspension.  
 
Anyone know of any adjustable upper rear control arms for the our Torinos?
 
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
Eliteman76 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20-March-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2012 at 12:27PM
Rear arms are and issue. With the 4 link design, upper adjustable arms are sort of out of the window due to the shape and way our rears are made.
The factory lowers are originally made with eccentric bushings to adjust the angle which, with aftermarket bushings, we lost the ability to adjust the pinion angle.

The Metco Arms, I would love to have a set of those, but it's more of a eye candy deal.
I'm not drag racing my car, so I can't justify the lower bracket kit.

I'd just as soon do a hot rods to hell truck arm kit like Mike did in his Montego before I start screwing with the geometry on the rear end to get ride of the wheel hop issues.
Andrew
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2012 at 1:28PM
I dont want to spend to much money learning I should have setup the suspension another way.   Truck arms would be nice but seem like an involved change.   I was looking for a more straight forward improvement...aiming to street use.  

I want to keep my GTS practical and fun for the street.   I'll prolly spent most of my time lighting up tires at stop lights anyway lol   Its all fun ;-)

I was toying with the fatman spindles, but a 2 1/2" drop might be to much for the street.   And the rear with a 2" drop...then I would have to do major surgery in the rear to fix that pinion angle.   This is probably why that Pure Vision car put in a Morrison rear clip.   

Has anyone used those Fatman spindles...lowered it 2"...and still have an oil pan?

I will have to replace my headers and may use oval exhaust pipe for clearance  (Dr. Gas exhaust for example)

-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2012 at 5:22AM
Bumping this thread...
 
On a few other threads I've been trading off between a rack-and-pinion setup Psquare suggested using the Cavalier quick ratio rack (2.5 L2L) vs a quick ratio Saginaw box frmo Lares Corp.   See the Rack and Pinion thread and the steering gear box thread.   The problem I potentially see with teh rack is that its travel I belive is around 6"....and suspect its less than the gear box travel which will impact the turning radius.
 
Aside from that I'm following that Crown Vic setup I posted in the beginning as a guide.   I put the Addco 7/8" bar in the rear (used OEM brackets..modded for new bushings).   I also bought a 1 3/8" solid splined bar for the front (1 1/4" ends).  I went with smaller end bar to use standard bushings and keep it low profile to fit.  I'm trying to figure out how to set it up on the front now.   Once thing I noticed si the trailing strut arms get in the way.  
 
I have a lot of fiddling around with the front bar to figure out how it can work.   This bar provides on the order of 576/in rate (12" arms) vs what I expect the stock bar to be <150lbs/in   Depending upon how this feels I may put in lower rate springs....to be continued.  
 
I'm planning on lowering the car 1".   Front rates will probably be good with the CVPI springs cut down and new 1" lower springs for the rear from Coil springs specialties (targeting 210-220lbs/in rate).
 
Rear arms...I think if you drop 2" or more you will have to adjust the pinion angle.   I was thinking a way to do this would be do something like what is found on the TCP kit.   Remove the upper arms and put in support like on this link...that mounts to the differential bolts.
See RCM Motorsports...Called the rear coil over kit.   Look at how the top arms are mounted to teh rear diff.
 
 
FYI...planning wheels/tires will be 17-18" 40/45 series  TBD
 
-John


Edited by BackInBlack - 03-April-2012 at 5:45AM
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2012 at 6:27AM
Also, I learned that to setup the suspension properly you must first decide on ride height and the wheels/Tires as they affect the ride height.   I need to decide on tire size before going beyond changing the sway bars.
 
Just FYI...
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
SPLUHAR View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 02-January-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPLUHAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2012 at 6:47AM
On rack and pinon conversions, be sure that you use a rear steer r/p for a rear steer car (torino) and a front steer r/p for a front steer car (crown vic). 
1976 ELITE, 71 429 w/cam, quadrajet, 4 wheel Mark V disc brakes, 3.25 trac lok, gutted & 12.9'd Mustang steering box
Back to Top
BackInBlack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 11-January-2011
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 576
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2012 at 6:53AM
Originally posted by SPLUHAR SPLUHAR wrote:

On rack and pinon conversions, be sure that you use a rear steer r/p for a rear steer car (torino) and a front steer r/p for a front steer car (crown vic). 
 
Yup...the 88-93 Chevy Cavalier Z24  is a rear steer rack.  What is nice about it is that it will connect up using a tie rod system instead of a direct connect rack to spindle.   It looks like a tight fit but should work.   The biggest expense is that my current headers would have to be replaced as a rack would interfere with them.
 
I'm still undecided on this....but I can move forward and worry about the steering later.   I'm prolly gonna stick with the box....these costs are racking up and I would like to spend the money elsewhere.
 
I think the biggest issue using a rack is the range of motion vs the old gear box. 


Edited by BackInBlack - 03-April-2012 at 6:58AM
-John
1973 GTS
Back to Top
SPLUHAR View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 02-January-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPLUHAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-April-2012 at 6:56AM
1976 ELITE, 71 429 w/cam, quadrajet, 4 wheel Mark V disc brakes, 3.25 trac lok, gutted & 12.9'd Mustang steering box
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 18>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.07
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.