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Road / Track Suspension Discussion

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-October-2017 at 2:52PM
To my knowledge I have never heard or seen anyone on here do it.  I think it's possible, but I tend to thing the upper mounts may need to be reinforced somewhat.  I mean, they should be somewhat strong, since airshocks will support the back end of a heavy wagon. 
 
John, if you do some of these mods, please share some pics of the upgrades.  I think for our cars you may be charting in some new water. 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2017 at 3:58AM
I'm debating if its worth doing...
By the time I buy multiple springs, tuning, trying different setups I'll probably ending up spending the same or more than just putting coil-overs on.

Coil-overs will allow setting up the ride height without shimming and jack screws, etc.

Its the value proposition; time vs money.  ON the front I can weld in reinforcement.  I can see clearly how to set it up.   The rear is a different story.   I've seen most just install a truck arm or 4 link setup with coil-overs.   I haven't seen anyone try to modify the stock setup and adapt it.

Planning for the next step of mods; suspension and brakes.  Now that I've finished with the 5speed, exhaust.  Will post more on that on my project page soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2017 at 9:49AM
Figured out the upper mounts aren't strong enough to support the weight.   Would need to do mods like in this kit for the chevelle.

http://www.globalwest.net/rear-coilover-kit-1964-1965-1966-chevelle-gto-442-skylark-a-body-global-west.html

I'm gonna wait until I get the other high priority stuff done.   I think this can be done without taking the body off. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2017 at 2:28PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

Figured out the upper mounts aren't strong enough to support the weight.   Would need to do mods like in this kit for the chevelle.

http://www.globalwest.net/rear-coilover-kit-1964-1965-1966-chevelle-gto-442-skylark-a-body-global-west.html

I'm gonna wait until I get the other high priority stuff done.   I think this can be done without taking the body off. 


 
I kind of figured they'd need to be reinforced.  That setup from Global West is pretty nice.  I have used some of their stuff in the past, good quality and great company to deal with.  Too bad they don't do anything for our cars.
 
After seeing what they do on this Chevelle, I am sure that it wouldn't take too much work to fab something like this for a Torino if one has the skills and tools to do so.  To pay for a one off might be pretty outrageous. 
 
I have always liked the idea of coil overs for the ultimate in adjustability.  Running them at all four corners would be a nice setup.   I think it's going to come down to how far you want to take this car and what you ultimate goal is.  I think it comes to a point where you are going to spend a heck of a lot of cash and time to get that final small incremental improvement.


Edited by 72FordGTS - 13-October-2017 at 2:29PM
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-October-2017 at 3:36PM
That's why I'm gonna wait on rear coilovers. I would probably buy the chevelle kit from global west then modify it for the torino.

It's prolly the easiest way to put coilovers on.

I'm mainly interested in it for ride height adjustability.

Edited by BackInBlack - 14-October-2017 at 12:38AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-October-2017 at 5:39AM
If you're mainly interested in ride height bags are easier and less expensive. Shocks are a static component used to improve ride comfort. Coil overs that aren't glorified shocks are an active component of a suspension with no real concern to ride comfort. Coil overs are all about Center of Mass and Center of Mass Height. Shocks have nothing to do with this. Using a shocks location for convenience of installing coil overs is potentially dangerous. I'm sure you don't want an essay or lecture so I suggest you invest in an inexpensive chassis set-up program which will help you locate where they should go. I can pretty much guarantee they will be located inboard of the shock location. Bear in mind the problem with what you are considering isn't so much what the coil overs themselves may or may not do but how they will effect the rest of your suspension. Do you know the weight of the car at every tire? Do you know the spring or roll rate and frequency? This may seem over the top but it won't when you have 3 more people in the car with you and you go over some RR tracks 5 MPH too fast for the suspension set-up and you lose 70% of your steering because it's floating. Just something to think about.

Edited by Don V. - 14-October-2017 at 5:40AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 12:52AM
I do have suspension software to verify setups. I agree the shock mounts are inadequate to support the suspension without modifications. I look to Chevelle aftermarket parts for ideas how I may modify the car since chevelle is very similar to the torino.

The global west setup looked simple to build as compared to completely cutting off the rear rails and grafting on something like a art Morrison rear clip. The mods in the gw kit spreads the load at the mounts and reinforces the mounts (the upper in particular).

I was trying to find out if anyone did these mods because I prefer to not reinvent the wheel.   I was mainly working through the trades pros/cons to determine if I should go through the effort since my car is torn apart right now. The value of coilovers is adjustability. This conversioncan be done at a later date without lifting the body off.

I am lowering the car and making some minor improvents while keeping it streetable. I'm checking the mods with the software and checking aftermarket kits for a point of reference. The mods I'm making are reversable.

Edited by BackInBlack - 15-October-2017 at 1:00AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-October-2017 at 9:37AM
BackinBlack,

Normally I would keep my, fingers here, shut but you did ask.

I'm confused about what it is you want to do. The last I responded to you said you were after ride height. Now you mention adjustability. I believe you mentioned a 4 link. It's a lot of disparate information that's not tied together with a common goal.

I recently had a thread about 8.8 and 9 inch rear ends. I don't need or necessarily want a 9" but my consideration wasn't about me. My concern was strictly about the perception of others to using an 8.8 when I could have gone with a 9". I feel your in the same place with your reasons with the coilovers.

If you are really after the functionality of coilovers you need to start with the suspension of the Chevelle. If you plan to keep the leaf or coil springs currently on car then you're not really after coilover functionality. Each one defeats the purpose of the other. Shocks have little to nothing to do with this.

And again, there are coilovers and then there are coilovers. Price is usually a fair indicator of which one you are after. If your looking at glorified shocks then you will need to keep the current suspension and forget about a rear frame kit. If you really want the benefits of tuning your suspension, that's what the adjustability is, to your needs then you will probably have to use a frame kit. I'm not familiar with the Chevelle but I imagine the current frame is at least 10 to 15% too wide on each side for maximum use of coilovers. Your goal is to keep the cars center of gravity, which moves with the motion of the suspension, as close to the cars center of mass, which doesn't move, to maximize stability. Most factory frames are built for comfort and maximizing suspension\chassis abilities is barely considered. If you have plans to use the car in competition than the classes you are looking at will have rules for front to back and left to right weight distribution which determines the cars COG and COM that you have to work with.

Since you have suspension software I assume you are aware of how easy it is to f-up a car's suspension. It's not hard to turn a car into a death trap. That's a reality so it's not over the top to say it.

Whatever you decide to do it will fall on a line somewhere from "The Cool Factor," to "Maximizing Car Performance." Both extremes are equally justifiable and worth pursuing. You need to first define what you're after and confront the elephant in the room of how much are you willing to spend. The truck I'm working on right now is limited by cash. I can't do everything I want to between the engine, suspension and body. Something has to give.

A final thought to bear in mind is the closer you get to maximizing your suspension the less forgiveness there is going to be. There is only so much to give and the closer you get to the limit the less there is that's correctable. More often then not in racing when there is an accident it has nothing to do with reaction time. The car was in a position that just couldn't be corrected from.

I'm not familiar with Art Morrison but Competition Engineering and most companies will put together whatever it is you want. Make the calls and tell them what you want.

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