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Steering Box Update

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unlovedford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Steering Box Update
    Posted: 07-March-2011 at 4:40AM
We have been talking about upgrades to the factory steering boxes in the '72-'76 Torinos and so I made some pictures of boxes out of a '72 Torino, '74 Torino (still has the rag joint plate installed in pics), '96 Grand Cherokee, and a '98 Grand Cherokee. The idea here is whether these Jeep steering boxes will adapt to the Torino and what would be involved in the swap. These Jeeps drive and steer well, and these boxes are plentiful and relatively inexpensive.

SIDE NOTES:

The '72 Torino box I have looks different than the '74 Torino box, but seems to have the same mtg points - I will pull it off this week and make sure.

The '96 and '98 Grand Cherokee boxes are identical.

I will pull the rag joint off the '74 box to make sure the shafts are the same on all boxes.

Torino boxes have 4 mounting points, but only 3 are used and the Jeep uses the same 3 points.



I'll update as I can, so please let me know any ideas or thoughts.

Thanks,

Joe
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2011 at 4:43AM
FORGOT TO ADD THIS - Pittman Arms are different, but bolt size and shaft look interchangeable.
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
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1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2011 at 4:47AM
You have two different style Ford boxes there, a "Ford" and "Saginaw box. This really does look promising to try now.
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grande Verde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2011 at 5:36AM
Most saginaw 3 bolt (inside of frame mount) boxes are similar in overall shape and mounting. The big question is if the indexing keyways on the sector shafts are the same.
Harry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2011 at 6:04AM
UnlovedFord, do you have a pitman arm puller? Care to explore a little further and see if they physically interchange? (My $ is on yes, as the Chevy pitman arm from a Chevelle fits the Jeep box, as well).
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2011 at 7:09AM
I plan on getting a puller from Auto Zone this weekend and doing that very thing - will make sure that the indexing keyway is the same on both boxes, too. I was pretty tired when I made the pics yesterday, and it didn't dawn on me that the '72 was a Ford box until I was checking the pics after posting. DUH. I should know better than that. Anyone need a good Ford box, lol?
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2011 at 8:57AM
you'll need the bigger puller, the regular one that i rented didn't fit
 
a little warmth from a propane torch and a few judicious taps with a small mallet helped quite a bit. load some tension into the puller then warm and tap the hex until it starts moving, if you try to just muscle the arm off there's a good chance it'll break the puller first 


Edited by Rockatansky - 07-March-2011 at 8:58AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2011 at 8:19AM
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2011 at 12:44PM
looks like one is for front steer, other is for rear steer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2011 at 12:57PM
OK man...just checking for fun and profit.
How goes the detroit inquisition? 
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2011 at 3:23PM
Oooh. Forgot all about the front vs. rear steer issue. 

I did notice, that Advance Auto Parts (and Advance Auto Parts.com) sells the Lares quick ratio box for..... $100 (+ core). 


Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2011 at 12:57AM
I promise to get to the boxes week after next. Busy work week next week, and the last 2 weeks have been devoted to stripping and scrapping my fiance's Prelude and stripping the '72 GTS. We had a serious wreck in the Lude 2 years ago and she has been bugging me to build her an exact duplicate of it, so I was thrilled to salute that hull as it was being crushed! Now I'll have to start the build on the new shell. (sigh...)

I will pull the pitman arms off both and examine them thoroughly once I get back in town, and update everyone.
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2011 at 5:07AM
uh. Honda Qualude.
Send 'em all to the crusher. LOLWink
 
Cool. Honestly, I have no vested interest because my GTS seems to have a 3 turn lock to lock box
{Sammy Hager had a song, 3 loc box, ironically...no releation?}
But I want to see the results!
 
 
 
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2011 at 7:58AM
Thank you for the song plant. Sammy rules!
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2011 at 8:40AM
What year Prelude? 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 3:37AM
I found a good deal on a 2.5-3 turns lock to lock saginaw box.  Should I, or should I not put one in my 72 gt wagon?--And why?
Thanx,
Ray


Edited by bmf - 27-March-2011 at 6:00AM
"I am completely broke and have the ability to sustain that"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 7:30AM
we need to get to the gritty on pump pressure differences between Ford / GM pumps & Saginaw / Ford boxes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 7:46AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

we need to get to the gritty on pump pressure differences between Ford / GM pumps & Saginaw / Ford boxes

Eh... details. I've mixed and matched the GM style pump, Ford "canister" pump, and the "plastic" pump.. LOL

Get the box up first and see how it physically works, IMO. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 8:16AM
Originally posted by Psquare75 Psquare75 wrote:

Eh... details... LOL
 
that's where i'm at too but some guys might run into a problem with certain combos
 
i just rebuilt & bolted a manual gearbox on my frame rail Wacko
 
Hoses? HOSES? we don't need no stinkin hoses...
 
Awww, my belt flew off Cry 
 
Awww, i sprung a leak Cry 
 
last time i drove it with power steering, the return hose was tight & routed over the header, boiled the fluid out of the pump Fuggetaboutit
 
i  have a Ford & Sag box & 2 Thompson pumps if anyone's interested


Edited by Rockatansky - 27-March-2011 at 9:08AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 8:20AM
Hoses are specific to the pump/box combo.. 

Do you have the OEM cooler? ;). I added a hydraulic fluid cooler from a Mack truck to cool my fluid.. with headers, the fluid got very hot. 

What pump are you using, and what box?


Edited by Psquare75 - 27-March-2011 at 8:22AM
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 8:56AM
I've been researching, and some of what I have found is:
Pressures are nominally 900-1000 psi
this can be regulated by the built in relief valve ie.shim,spring and drill
C***y  police cars have a nice oil cooler
some fords have a long loop of pipe in front of the radiator
  most have a small one on the ac unit
or, you dont need one except for hard use (racing) or airation
GM sagnaw will work with a spacer to change the bolt pattern
Ford saginaw quick ratio is custom for the big ford ($4-500)
 
Original question was if the 2 1/2 turn box would be any advantage on my 72 GT wagon?
 
Thanx,
Ray
"I am completely broke and have the ability to sustain that"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 9:05AM
it was just a 'temporary' set up, the plan was to use an old trans cooler in front of the Rad but i'm pretty sure it got tossed during a move where i wasn't able to keep Everything. never did find it. Boss balancer went at the same time, i had no idea how much they'd be worth or i woulda stuck in my pants but it's all burnt boiled fluid down the highway now...
 
manual windows, locks, steering, brakes & hopefully i'll get my toploader back in there too
Real Men use tire chocks... damn i miss pop starting my old 72 by myself   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 9:37AM
We aren't sure if the GM box is a 100% go for your car yet, Ray. I actually burst a power steering line due to heat (same issue, return line was close to the headers). The cooler I added solved it. 

Max, a tranny cooler will be just fine IMO. If you need one, I've got a couple. 


Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 11:03AM
i've got boxes & pumps if anyone needs some, manual box is torqued in place Wink
 
i'll grab some pics of them for the thread as soon as it's feasible
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 1:29PM
Don't know who was asking for what but here is what I have:
72 GT wagon
Cowl completely apart
Rusty floor
Reworking cowl
rear is 9"with 12 something ford disk and 1" spacers rebuilt with posi and powdered
front are 12 something 72 tbird
I can still use 15" slotmag smoke powder or dodge police which I prefer
Installing clutch pedals 72 chero and hydraulic bellhousing from 83 pickup
flywheel same
tremec 600 5 speed
hydroboost rebuilt  79? merc
Saginaw pump with 2 returns and all hoses from same
gear is undecided
frame is powdercoated and still off of the wagon
All bushings are poly
I am waiting on spring and the engine (a little above 400 hp)
that is where I am at the moment
I am old and tired and this will be the last one I do.  Except mabey the ranchero  (72) needs to be freshened, or the 36 ford pickup I am trying to buy, or the '14 overland  in the barn, mabey a 351 in the Miata.  I just cant make up my mind,  Oh well, the tinkle of ice on crystal and she splash of soda on scotch is calling.  I have decided for now.
 
thanx for listening,
Ray
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 5:12PM
On the power steering cooler, just as a basic suggestion for those not running AC:

late 90's V6 Ford Contour PS cooler:
 

Unit will bolt in, on the bottom of the rad support, using factory holes:

I ended up having to pull out due to I am running factory AC.
I have the cooler off a 1999 CVPI, I pulled out of storage and am going to run. I also had cleaned up an original PS cooler and had it powder coated, but I may not use now.

I have been running the Ford pump, no cooler, and had no issues last year on Powertour, but no cooler left me rethinking things.

Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 5:16PM
As a side note...parts store hoses suck.

If for any reason you need to get new hoses...I suggest taking your originals, and go to a local hydraulic shop. I have a industrial shop I use for hoses for my snow plow stuff, and something I am going to do in the next month.

Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2011 at 5:32PM
that is pretty slick when you can take a Genuine Ford part from something else and it bolts in place using existing mount points
 
they say the crates the Model A engines came in were used for the floorboards, or the Model T...
 
main problem i had boiling the fluid was because of the position/direction of the return tube into the reservoir. trying to eliminate the leak from the pump O-ring because the Res can was mangled from some Breaker Bar Jack tightening the PS belt for 30 years, i changed the Res can to one i had in stock with a 'straight out the back' return tube instead of the 90* turn the leaker had. this caused the return to route over the header. don't do it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2011 at 1:22AM
Andy, I'm not seeing the issue with the hoses.. Different lengths?
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-March-2011 at 6:11AM
Sorry, failed to clarify:
 
Left, original, 1972 hose.
Middle, replacement hose, from 15 years ago.
Right, replacement hose I got.
The new replacement hose was too long, the metal portions are not bent the same as the 1972 hose.
I suspect it's for possibly a Lincoln, but not sure.
 
All I know is, the hoses specifed for a 1972-1976 Torino/Montego are NOT correct, as I had Advanced Auto and Orielly's order in a couple different hoses and gave up after getting so pissed off at the same reboxed hose coming out of Mexico.
 
I pulled hoses off a good pump I had, from that 1974 Q code Ranchero
 
I know I've said it before, but Ford only made HOW MANY freaking intermediates?
 
Sorry, this stuff pisses me off.
 
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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