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Straight Six No Oil Preessure

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unlovedford View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11-August-2014 at 3:34PM
Does anyone here have any experience on the 170-200 sixes?

The Falcon wagon I just bought has a rebuilt six in it. Got a bit more of the story - the last owner and his buddy tried starting it, ran but no oil pressure. His buddy suggested that whoever built the engine may have left a "plug" out from the timing chain area and that was probably the issue. Anyone ever heard of that? Engine is obviously a rebuild that has not seen any use and has been sitting a long time. Oil looks new, everything looks fine. Thought about pulling the distributor and seeing if I could get some pressure built up with a drill. The guys said they only ran it for a short period and shut it off when pressure didn't come up. Looks like it had never been cranked before they tried it. Any suggestions before I yank it out? Whoever built it installed a brand new fuel pump, carb, distributor, coil, filler caps, filters, etc.

May not keep it in here, but a rebuilt six does have it's own appeal and I would like to hear it run before pulling if I decide to go the V8 route.

1) "plug" left out?
2) oil pump lost it's prime from sitting?
3) bad oil pump?

Edited by unlovedford - 11-August-2014 at 3:36PM
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-August-2014 at 3:39PM
i worked on lots of falcon 170's way back in the day. i'd try the drill thing and maybe remove the valve cover or something to see if any oil is flowing
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-August-2014 at 3:46PM
you should be able to hear a lot of oil moving inside if there's a plug missing
 
not familiar with the internals on that one but yeah it happens. long time ago a bud left a plug or 2 out of a small mopar, had some pressure cold but no pressure as the temp came up. between a couple guys that worked on it they were sure the plugs were missing, after they got them in the motor was fine except for being a small mope LOL Cry LOL
 
another, big mope, the lazy machinist supplied std bearings on an undersize ground crank. same deal, some pressure cold falling away as temp came up. swapped bearings & it's still running 20 years later
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-August-2014 at 4:00PM
From what I was told, the pressure never came up. I had not heard of a plug by the timing cover. I know some engines have oil ports that are plugged to slow or speed drainback to the pan - whichever is needed - but this one is news to me.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-August-2014 at 5:47PM
i think they mean the plugs at the ends of the lifter bores, some engines have like mini freeze plug type and some have thread in 1/8"npt pipe plugs. maybe the pump shaft is out or the pick up screen???
JOHN
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90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 2:20AM
Going to try the drill first. If nothing, then I'll pull it out. Thanks guys.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 2:49AM
maybe a nice quiet hand crank speed handle so you can hear what's goin on inside?
even a ratchet will get the oil moving and you'll be able to judge the resistance of the pump by feel,
you won't get that gentle touch with Power Tools
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 3:09AM
Make sure that that drive shaft for the oil pump is installed correctly. Assuming they have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 1:52PM
yup , I've had that before. A kid at the local high school rebuilt the straight six in his Granada. he had no oil pressure upon start up. the local machine shop had removed the plug when he boiled the block. I hadn't had to many sixes apart, but if I remember correctly pull the distributor and try priming the engine with an oilpump drive shaft.if the pump picks up prime and you have a fliud loss you should still feel a little resistance with your drill. if you do than it's at least got the prime. if you have prime than you have to start looking for the pressure loss. it's easier to pull the front cover than the pan. I don' think you be able to hear any fliud loss even with the engine off and priming with an electric drill.
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 11:53PM
John, where is this plug located under the timing cover? Thanks for all the input!
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 1:52PM
Joe, man that was a long time ago. Let me see if I can find a picture. it was definitely under the front cover. I don't remember if it was welch or threaded  plug.
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 1:57PM
The engine is brand new. Pulled the valve cover - shiny and clean inside.

Found the first issue. Pulled the distributor and guess what? No oil pump rod from the distributor to the oil pump. Pulled the plugs and shined a light down the cylinders. Pistons are brand new and clean as a pin. Have a rod on order from O'Reilly's, be here Saturday.

I'll install that and see if it will prime.

Here's a picture of the inside.



Joe
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1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:23PM
joe, i had a feeling that might be the case, i've seen that a few times (so called "certified mechanics" that can't find their a$$ with both hands) Wacko make sure you have the keeper thing on right so that the new one don't get pulled out if you remove the dist. (it should be against the block on the pump side)
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:29PM
Joe, here's the link...At the 8:50 mark
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:35PM
Didn't read what you found....or didn't find! I hope that thing hadn't been run without the drive!
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:43PM
He said they started it but immediately shut it off when the pressure didn't come up. Hopefully.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:46PM
if that's 100% true you might be OK (hopefully they didn't rev it up for several minutes waiting to build pressure! if you know what i mean!)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:49PM
John, thanks! I will check that if the rod does not fix the issue. Hopefully, it will.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 3:37PM
It should. Can't drive the pump without it.
Alex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 6:40PM
Hell, the rod is probably in the oil pan. They probably missed the oil pump and it dropped on down.
Alex
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