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foxhound720 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Street performance
    Posted: 10-December-2011 at 10:53AM
First of all I need to learn more about cam specs.
 
I am looking to build a streetable but quick 351c. Not insane or a monster just fast street and all around performance cleveland. I have a few top end parts on my cleveland and I am in the process of trying to find headers because this is a swap car. Was a 302.
 
What cam specs and heads should I be looking at ? I am only trying to search for another 50hp and this car will be fun. its a 4speed 351c 69 torino. Thanks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 12:18AM
Nobody knows anyone that has ever built a non track car in here. Ok
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ilyes View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 1:20AM
For the heads, I don't know what is available for Cleveland but for street car, few comes to my mind, Edelbrock, AFR, ... You need to check online which models performs the best for your set up.

For the cam, it depends if street ability is a big concern to you, for me it's not so I can go with a fairly big cam and don't get bother a second with the way it act on the streets.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 2:44AM
There are sooooo many options for cams and to learn about cams could be a month long class all by itself.
 
Best and easiest way to get a streetable but aggressive set up is to look at a package from the people that Ilyes mentioned... Jegs, Summit, Edelbrock etc... they have Head/Cam/Intake/Carb packages that deliver the best bang for the buck. They also break it down by desired outcome with in depth descriptions. Getting it all in a kit means you get the right Cam, Lifters, Push Rods, Rockers, Intake, and Carb along with all the other CORRECT supporting parts to ensure a PROPER build. Now, IF you go that way you SHOULD have the lower end completly rebuilt as well. Would REALLY SUCK if you spent the money on all that top end just to have the bottom end let go a couple days later after beating on it with all the new power from the top end.
 
Here is the link...
 
IF you are looking to just beef it for a nice sounding and performing street car...
take it to the local machine shop and tell them to rebuild it and add some OOMPH they will build it on a budget for you and you will KNOW it is a good package that will last a long time.
 
They will even help you pick out the right package from Edelbrock.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 2:54AM
Originally posted by foxhound720 foxhound720 wrote:

Nobody knows anyone that has ever built a non track car in here. Ok
 
Easy killer!
be patient when you ask a question. We will get you as much and even more info than you probably could ever handle. As I said in the other reply... SOOOOO MANY variables in your questions.
The very first variable to that question is... How much $$$ do you have in your pocket RIGHT NOW to spend on it? IF you have $300 and can do the work yourself, we will recommend a cam with timing chain that is a direct swap along with the gasket/kits you'll need to do it. $$ is ALWAYS the first thing to consider when doing a job like this... HOW MUCH do you have NOW or want to spend over some time.
We can recommend an Edelbrock kit at $4,000 and you'll laugh at us for being too much or recommedn a $300 cam kit and you laugh at us being cheap. So give us some more info as to what your budget and timeline is. We will definately steer you in the RIGHT direction and maybe even have some parts to help in the meantime.
 
as far as track versus street cars in here... I believe of ALL the cars in this forum there are maybe 2 that are track specific built cars, the rest here are street driven.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:34AM
Originally posted by foxhound720 foxhound720 wrote:

Nobody knows anyone that has ever built a non track car in here. Ok

I stick with big block automatic equipped full frame cars. Can't speak for anyone else. Hence a lack of reply. Sorry. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 11:17AM
Originally posted by foxhound720 foxhound720 wrote:

 
What cam specs and heads should I be looking at ? I am only trying to search for another 50hp and this car will be fun. its a 4speed 351c 69 torino. Thanks.
 
So what do you have now, and how much of your money are we looking to spend?LOL
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 2:50PM
This is strange. Sorry for being abrupt but none of these replies showed up til just now.

As far as money to spend I am looking at $3500 to $4500 to make a highway screamer. I dont care about low end. MY big turbo car has lag up the ass and this torino will always make more low end tq then my turbo car. More displacement.

I would like a full package instead of piecing is together to get the specs right. What gear should I run in the rear ? Looking for a highway car to pull like a train at 35-45 mph til up top.

Right now its a 351c with edelbrock 600cfm carb and edelbrock performer intake with manifolds to true dual 2.5" no cat exhaust. I heard from all forums from google searching for hours these edelbrock parts are the most toned down aftermarket parts. Searching suggest 650 carb with a edelbrock air gap or weiand x celerator manifold.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:28PM
Having a 4spd sure opens up the cam selection a bit.
 
-Closed chambered heads would be an improvement. If you are considering a head swap but aren't looking for aftermarket aluminum heads either the 2V Austrialian heads, or 70-71 4V heads (US) are worth looking at.
 
-Even if you are going to go with the heads you have, ditch the valve train. The factory 2V rockers are weak and the factory valves are two piece units that like to feed themselves to the pistons.
 
-An outfit named Sanderson Headers makes some "shorty" headers that may work but can be a bit salty.
 
-If you don't have it, electronic ignition. Even a stock Duraspark setup (429-460 distributor fits) is an improvement. 
 
-I'm voting for a 3.50 gear set. I liked them better than the 4.11's I had in the 72 for a bit. Damn quick but without an overdrive they are just horrible on the highway.
 
 


Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 3:28PM
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:29PM
Originally posted by Regul8r Regul8r wrote:

 
Easy killer!
LOL


Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 3:30PM
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:41PM
Lynchster thank you. I was just thinking of 3.50 gears actually.

Can I just bolt on 4v heads ? An option that ran thru my head was a 4b head setup.

What do you mean a but salty ? Some people said that 70 torino headers should work. I have power steering so that might affect my header choice unless I used a specific expensive header set that I found.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:44PM
salty = expensive. Old expression.
 
Sure the 4V heads will bolt on. I'd go with the 70-71 heads myself. My 72 CJ has the open chamber heads and I'm considering the swap myself.
Another point is that the 4V heads have their own intake and exhaust manifolds as well (much larger ports). I believe (not sure) you can fit a 2V intake manifold on 4V heads but the port sizes don't match up.


Edited by lynchster - 14-December-2011 at 3:48PM
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:49PM
I think you need the manifolds, intake and heads. I was wondering cost per HP with 4v swap as opposed to Aussie heads or edelbrock or afr heads.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:51PM
I would buy aftermarket 4v intake and headers to avoid re using stock stuff with 4v heads.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 3:54PM
Regul8r's link is for 351c heads on a windsor. Don't they change the Way the coolant operates when building a cleavor ? Ill call edelbrock about a package and my needs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 4:19PM
Originally posted by foxhound720 foxhound720 wrote:

I think you need the manifolds, intake and heads. I was wondering cost per HP with 4v swap as opposed to Aussie heads or edelbrock or afr heads.
 
That is a consideration.
If going with the 4V heads stick with the 70-71 closed chamber heads. The later open chamber heads (like mine) won't help your compression any and the larger ports may wind up being detrimental depending on the cam and gears.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 8:20PM
If numbers matching block is your goal, send in your block to be done. I am sure this would also keep costs down as they are not suppling block.
Tell them you will be using your own tins, dip-stick, dampener? etc etc etc, to keep costs down.
Very important to tell them that you have stick shift = cam selection (larger animal = bigger HP)
 
 
Many options in between
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-December-2011 at 8:30PM
http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/engines/ford/Twin-Turbo-Daily-Driver.html

Have a look at the video on this one. This gets the ------- Thumbs Up from me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2011 at 2:24AM
Originally posted by kenneth kenneth wrote:

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/engines/ford/Twin-Turbo-Daily-Driver.html

Have a look at the video on this one. This gets the ------- Thumbs Up from me
 
THAT is BADAZZ!!
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2011 at 10:36AM
Nice video for sure. I need 4v intake manifold also when doing head swap right ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2011 at 2:58PM

It pays to match 2v with 2v, and 4v with 4v due to port sizes on heads.

As I understand it, it will run but not well if they are interchanged   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2011 at 4:43PM
Yeah most definitely. Thanks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-December-2011 at 10:01PM
The closed chamber Aussi 2v heads should give you taht extra bit of power you're looking for, add in some nice new stainless valves, new springs, a set of 1.73 roller rockers, and adjustable stud mount conversion and you should only be into the heads for around $1k.  From there there are plenty of cams to choose from!  A new electronic ignition will really help with things too, I am using an all mechanical Mallory unilite distributor and Hyfire solid core coil on my 400, it's simple AND effecient :)  Next I want to add a CDI box but I can live with what I have for now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 9:05AM
try finding a set of Aussie 2V heads,I don't think it's that simple but who knows I never looked for any when doing my 74 351 2v Cleveland as the valve size are 2.05 and that is bigger then the Cheby 350 2.02 heads that all the Chebby guys wanted for thier 350's with 1.94's,they swapped to the 2.02's.
 
I did a Performer intake for the 2V with a 600 cfm Carter AFB before Edeljunk bought them out,believe it or not the Carter version is better then the Edelbrock.
I put in a Erson 290 duration cam but don't know the lift as back in the 80's they went by duration and the cam card had all your cam specs but that is long gone,still have the 351C sitting in the garage,it was slated for the 73 but as I parted the POS rust bucket it don't have a home as the 72 has a 69 429 and that has way more hp then a 351C 2V
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 9:12AM
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/ford/engines/auction-431151146.htm

Can pick em up for you, but shipping will be hideously expensive. So pick up cost nil, packaging nil. shipping your responsibly. Can hold for as long as you like so long as you pay for heads.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 9:19AM
Just had a closer look at the photos, and he says they have been "acid dipped" === doesn't look like it. Happy to view on your behalf and get more photos direct to your email. 
Auction runs for another hour but I am sure he will not sell.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 9:22AM
Currency converter --  http://coinmill.com/NZD_USD.html  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 10:14AM
that's the problem,try finding them here in the states is the harder part and shipping from NZ or Aussieland is very pricey,you would know kenneth from shipping your engine from the states to NZ and also i'm sure buying parts for the rebuild
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 10:36AM
Rodger that, and %100 Agreed on that Jeff.
 
I personally think he's better off getting a set of local Ali heads, or a head package. weight difference/savings alone would be worth some ponies up his sleave.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2011 at 10:57AM
yup
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