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Driveshaft/u-joint/rear end question?!??

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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22-February-2014 at 6:11PM
Ok so I forgot to post this on the falcon thread, but I'm moving and I decided to drive the falcon to the new house (bout 8 miles) But it drove great until about a half mile down the road I felt some vibration naw was like oh sh*** lol long story short it fell out and towed it the rest of the way......so looking at it I found out why...the u joint went over the little tracks that hold the sides of the u joint in place, because the u-joint/driveshaft is one of our torino driveshafts that I cut it to fit my falcon and the u-joint is bigger than the yoke. (Didn't realize and learned it the hard way) so my question is, what do I do here? I pulled the yoke off of my 9 inch, will that fit the rear end I have in the falcon? I tried pulling the one off of the falcon but IT WOULD NOT BUDGE. So will that fit if I get that off, can I get a u-joint that will fit my drive shaft and the smaller rear? I would have used the falcons driveshaft but the front u joint wouldnt fit my tranny, could I have gotten a u joint that would have fit my tranny and that driveshaft??? PLEASE HELP!
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 6:23PM
first, are you sure that the u joint is too wide, sometimes if you remove the caps a needle bearing can fall down on the bottom of the cap and it won't side on far enough (making it too wide) second you may be able to get a special u joint that is different between caps (size, etc.) i know that for my torino there were 2 different sizes of u joints available. i'd take both u joints with you to the parts store and they could check and measure to see if one is available, there may be different yokes for the diff that could be changed, i'm not sure, may randy or somebody else may know on that part?
JOHN
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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 6:46PM
Ok, this is confusing me, I'm under the car right now and the u joint thT I recently bought fits the rear end but I'm pretty sure it won't fit the drive shaft
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:06PM
are the caps all the way onto the u joint? look closly at the rubber seals, are they touching the center of the u joint all the way, or is there a small gap? and is the u joint the right width measuring across the the caps (total width? now measure the width of the ujoint that did fit the drive shaft is it the same? or shorter or wider?
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:10PM
Yes, they are all the way on, the one that is on the driveshaft is about a quarter inch wider.
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:13PM
I tried a couple times but I don't understand what the exact issue is

there's umpteen bajillion different U-joints, they don't all have the same size caps or width dimensions on both sides of the 'cross'

to walk into a parts house & come out with the right U-joint takes a little bit of knowledge & some careful measuring. there are 3 basic 'series' that are popular in the auto world, 1310 is smaller width-wise than 1330 & 1350. then there are different diameter caps within the 3 series, and like I said earlier they're not always all 4 the same on one joint

http://driveshaftspecialist.com/HTML%20Measure/UJ%20ID%20Guide.html

a) you need to know the series of the trans yoke, and the diameter of the caps needed in all 4 positions on that joint

b) you need to identify the series of the joints needed for the driveshaft, both ends, and the diameter of the caps on each end

c) then you need to know the series of the differential flange and the diameter of each cap needed there

d) you need to know the retention style of every 'cross' or yoke; trans yoke, front of shaft, rear of shaft, dif flange

draw a cheesy sketch, measure & write everything down with arrows pointing to exactly what on the sketch is what size and bring it with you to the store. and bring you caliper to make sure you're getting what you need, parts get shuffled on the counter from guys trying to find a magic part, they get back into the wrong boxes, measure what you're buying!

yes it can be VERY confusing!

it's possible to have several different combos on a project car



Edited by Rockatansky - 22-February-2014 at 7:26PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:23PM
yes! what max said^^^ 100%, it sounds like you're using the larger u joint shaft and the diff uses the smaller u joint, you said 1/4" wider so that would be my guess


Edited by californiajohnny - 22-February-2014 at 7:24PM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:31PM
Ok, the diff is like 1/4 inch shorter than the yoke from my torinos rear. (Didn't measure just guessing, it's dark out and no garage and rocks hurt!) the u joint on the shaft fits my torinos rear. The u joint that I bought fits my falcons rear but not the shaft ( too narrow for the shaft) (shafts joint is too wide for the rear) just clearing it up. And thanks for you guys helping!
~Bryan
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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:33PM
Yes basically what you said john but complicated lol.
~Bryan
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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:39PM
So I can't just swap the yokes out?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:43PM
that would take more / different knowledge & measuring

wouldn't it just be easier to get the right U-joint ?

you know the pinion flange nut sets the preload on the pinion bearings... ?

Edited by Rockatansky - 22-February-2014 at 7:44PM
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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:44PM
Do they make one that will fith the bigger shaft and smaller diff?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:46PM
my guess is Yes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:48PM
Soo, I'll just go to the store with both u joints and pray to the auto gods that they have one to my needs?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 7:56PM
IDK on the yoke? maybe, BUT what max said about the BEARING PRELOAD!!! tricky if you tighten too much it will cause more crush on the spacer between the pinion shaft bearings causing the pinion shaft to run further away from the ring gear (been there! that's why i dont mess with setting up diff gears or mess with rebuilding manual trannys)
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 8:10PM
Ok, I'll go to the store with both an hopefully get what I need, thanks guys!
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 8:23PM
the way I see it you can bring the trans yoke & the driveshaft with you, that leaves the dif flange up to interpretation

IDK if you missed my post up above where I suggested that it might take some measuring? but I would measure that dif flange & know what I need if I wanted it to work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 8:31PM
I saw it, sorry I didn't write a reply to it. Trans yoke? You mean just the whole driveshaft right?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 8:53PM
I think I'm starting to understand what you have goin on over there,
the only issue is the fit of the U joint in the dif flange... ?

so yes, take the driveshaft that has the trans slip yoke attached to it with you along with a decent measurement of the dif flange

sounds to me from here that you need a 1330/1310 joint but don't take my word for it

Measure The Dif Flange
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 8:57PM
Thanks, yes, and the new u joint that I just bought fits the diff flange perfectly, but not the shaft and the one on the shaft is too big for the diff flange.
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 9:31PM
So you think I need a 1330/1310?
Are those like manufacturing numbers for u joints?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 9:51PM
click on this for much good info

I'm not saying this is the correct joint you need, just an example
the link above doesn't even cover adapter joints like this one

1310 / 1330 joint

Edited by Rockatansky - 22-February-2014 at 9:56PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2014 at 9:58PM
Thanks! But do you think they make custom ones?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 4:45AM
There are hybrid u-joints available that will hook you up. take the U-joint that fits the driveshaft and the u-joint that fits the diff yoke with you and they can figure out what you need. you may need smarter heads than at autozone/Advance/Oh-really. Not a big deal at a driveshaft shop at all.

The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 10:16AM
Awesome! Thanks guys.
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 10:18AM
So um is there a seal that goes inbetween the yoke and the diff?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 10:21AM
is/was there a rubber coating on the back of the pinion nut?

sometimes even new nuts leak through the threads, some guys use a little RTV

maybe Loctite has a thread locker/sealer product that would be better than just RTV

the trick now is to snug that nut up enough that it's tight w/o smashing the crush collar any more than it is, that's why I'd use a threadlocker with less torque than spec calls for

Edited by Rockatansky - 23-February-2014 at 10:24AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 10:30AM
I'm not sure but I'll prolly get some stream sealer or locktight but yeah I've got a small leak goin on there from my attempt to get the yoke out....hope nothin got f'd up..
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 10:33AM
there is about a 2 1/2" seal in the front of the 3rd member housing that rides against the outer edge of the yoke. what max is referring to is sealing the pinion threads behind the nut (not a bad idea!) don't you have the driveline from the falcon? i'd rather redo a drive line that fits the diff and  just cut and change the front slip yoke, than mess with the pinion yoke (preload issues) just my 2 cents!
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2014 at 10:40AM
I do, but with my motor and tranny, it would have had to be cut too, and it was a lot thinner, so I went with the one that already fit my tranny, and at the time I thought fit the rear end too...
~Bryan
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