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Straight Six No Oil Preessure

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Rockatansky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Straight Six No Oil Preessure
    Posted: 27-August-2014 at 6:39AM
if the rear external plug were missing there'd be quite a mess of oil on the floor & very quickly
 
if an internal plug is missing the pump may still flow the oil you saw in the dizzy hole but not be able to fill the lifters & flow to the top end
 
personally I don't fire the coil until I get oil to every rocker arm, by turning the oil pump shaft with a speed handle & rotating the crank in 90* increments... 
the lifters may not fill & flow unless the plungers get exercised over the cam lobes
 
it's pretty amazing there's not more experience with the Ford 6-pop out there to answer a few basic questions about the oiling system


Edited by Rockatansky - 27-August-2014 at 6:39AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 10:02PM
In the worst case possibility, if your rear/back oil galley plug is missing, you can still install a new plug with the engine still in the vehicle. But the transmission will have to be seperated from the engine to install the rear plug.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 8:05PM
This is a picture of the front of the same 1954 through 1964 ford inline six cylinder engine block that i had posted five pictures above. I am posting this picture to show that the other picture of this engine (in the first/top picture above) is the rear/back of this same engine (not the front). Hopefully your rear oil gallery NPT Type of plug is not missing.


Edited by dave302 - 26-August-2014 at 9:26PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 7:49PM
The front of this 1941 through 1947 ford flathead inline 6 cylinder engine block appears to have two NPT Type of oil gallery plugs installed on it.


Edited by dave302 - 26-August-2014 at 7:50PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 7:47PM
The rear/Back of this 1941 through 1947 ford flathead inline 6 cylinder engine block appears to have two NPT Type oil gallery plugs installed on it.


Edited by dave302 - 26-August-2014 at 7:51PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 7:40PM
This 1979 Jeep CJ 258 6 Cylinder Block has an NPT Type of oil gallery plug installed on it, behind the timing cover.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 7:37PM
The rear/back of this 1997 through 1998 ford V6 engine has two NPT Type of oil galley plugs.


Edited by dave302 - 26-August-2014 at 10:09PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 7:32PM
The back/rear of this 1954 through 1964 ford inline six cylinder block has an NPT Type of oil gallery plug installed on it. Maybe this is missing on your engine?


Edited by dave302 - 26-August-2014 at 8:00PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 5:48PM
thinking about it, cranking may not be fast enough to get much pressure showing on the gauge, but 5 or 10 seconds running the gauge should suddenly jump up with pressure, if not then something's wrong like the plug thing???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 5:41PM
remove the sending unit and plumb in a temporary oil gauge, crank the engine again and see if you are getting some pressure on the gauge, that will tell you if it's building pressure in the system if you get pressure then it will just take some more turning over or running to get the lifters pumped up and then fill through the push rods and rockers. all those cars i'm sure you have an extra aftermarket oil gauge laying around, with the fittings and plastic line hook it up temp. and set it somewhere so you can see it while cranking and or running. when you're done just remove it and put the sender back in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 4:29PM
Left the valve cover off, installed the distributor, pulled the plugs out, removed the coil lead. Cranked the engine with the starter for 30 seconds (spinning faster with no plugs). Not a drop came up to the head. I'm a bit hesitant to try running it if there is no oil going up to the galley. Every engine I've built had the lifters soaking, pump primed, and everything lubed before assembly. no issues. This has been sitting a long time without ever being run. Could it need to run to get the lifters pumped up enough to feed the push rods? If I do and it starts pumping, then all is good. If not, then I've done some damage.

After using the drill, I can hear oil dripping down from inside the block - not a steady "pouring" sound in the timing chain area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 12:50PM
randy's right! most engines the oil must flow around the dist. housing to plug the big hole so oil feeds on through the system. (with oil just dumping back down through that big hole , you can't build any pressure to fill the system) put your dist. in and try it, you should have oil flowing throughout the entire system in about 5-10 seconds, maybe a little longer for the lifters if they have air in them, and /or you could do what i did last night on one of my cars--- screw in a temporary oil gauge into the block to check true pressure ( my light came on and it had plenty of oil i feared the pump quit! nope the sending unit took a sh*t! ) much relieved that's all it was !!! Thumbs UpBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 10:23AM
Some engines lube the distributor shaft off the lifter gallery. if the distributor isn't in, no oil to top end. I can't say whether this applies to small ford 6 though...
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2014 at 3:17AM
Installed the pump driveshaft, attached a drill and the oil blew right out of the distributor hole. Slow the drill down and you can see oil swirling around in the hole. Something is happening down there, but no oil getting up to the rockers, so I guess I'll pull the front cover and see about the plug.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-August-2014 at 4:16AM
Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-August-2014 at 3:17AM
The way the engine is made, it would be awfully difficult to drop it into the pan. I'm thinking that someone was either absentminded or did it on purpose. Either way, we'll see on Saturday. If it does pressure up with the rod on a drill, I'll try to start it.

Edited by unlovedford - 14-August-2014 at 3:18AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 6:40PM
Hell, the rod is probably in the oil pan. They probably missed the oil pump and it dropped on down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 3:37PM
It should. Can't drive the pump without it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:49PM
John, thanks! I will check that if the rod does not fix the issue. Hopefully, it will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:46PM
if that's 100% true you might be OK (hopefully they didn't rev it up for several minutes waiting to build pressure! if you know what i mean!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:43PM
He said they started it but immediately shut it off when the pressure didn't come up. Hopefully.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:35PM
Didn't read what you found....or didn't find! I hope that thing hadn't been run without the drive!
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Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:29PM
Joe, here's the link...At the 8:50 mark
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 2:23PM
joe, i had a feeling that might be the case, i've seen that a few times (so called "certified mechanics" that can't find their a$$ with both hands) Wacko make sure you have the keeper thing on right so that the new one don't get pulled out if you remove the dist. (it should be against the block on the pump side)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 1:57PM
The engine is brand new. Pulled the valve cover - shiny and clean inside.

Found the first issue. Pulled the distributor and guess what? No oil pump rod from the distributor to the oil pump. Pulled the plugs and shined a light down the cylinders. Pistons are brand new and clean as a pin. Have a rod on order from O'Reilly's, be here Saturday.

I'll install that and see if it will prime.

Here's a picture of the inside.



Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-August-2014 at 1:52PM
Joe, man that was a long time ago. Let me see if I can find a picture. it was definitely under the front cover. I don't remember if it was welch or threaded  plug.
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Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 11:53PM
John, where is this plug located under the timing cover? Thanks for all the input!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 1:52PM
yup , I've had that before. A kid at the local high school rebuilt the straight six in his Granada. he had no oil pressure upon start up. the local machine shop had removed the plug when he boiled the block. I hadn't had to many sixes apart, but if I remember correctly pull the distributor and try priming the engine with an oilpump drive shaft.if the pump picks up prime and you have a fliud loss you should still feel a little resistance with your drill. if you do than it's at least got the prime. if you have prime than you have to start looking for the pressure loss. it's easier to pull the front cover than the pan. I don' think you be able to hear any fliud loss even with the engine off and priming with an electric drill.
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Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 3:09AM
Make sure that that drive shaft for the oil pump is installed correctly. Assuming they have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-August-2014 at 2:49AM
maybe a nice quiet hand crank speed handle so you can hear what's goin on inside?
even a ratchet will get the oil moving and you'll be able to judge the resistance of the pump by feel,
you won't get that gentle touch with Power Tools
 
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