The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Model Specific Forum > 1970/1971 Ford and Mercury
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Is MotorFlush Safe?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Is MotorFlush Safe?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is MotorFlush Safe?
    Posted: 27-March-2018 at 2:56AM
I didn't know you guys actually watched my videos! Haha. I do it simply for cost. I get a discount at my local shop, so for $23, I'm out the door. I can do it, well... Never tried in my Torino, but for me, it's just more effective to have someone else do it. High dollar work, like mechanical work, I'll usually try myself if it's in my comfort range.

I definitely appreciate the offer for help. This forum has been one of the friendliest I've been on.
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2018 at 2:29AM
Yes, if that's the case, then ask for 10W30, I am sure they have it.  See if they have a high mileage oil option but it might cost you a couple of extra dollars.
 
Why not change it yourself though and buy the oil you want?  It would save you money and you could do another video.  These cars are SUPER easy to change the oil on.  We can help you out on doing the job if you need help.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2018 at 2:20AM
Well, I ask because I choose to have a shop change my oil (because it ends up being cheaper), and I think they use 5W30. I can ask if they have 10W30 for the same price. For me, it's about cost. I don't plan on keeping this car much longer, but I do want to take care of it.
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2018 at 2:03AM

I agree that spending a lot on this engine wouldn't be the best move. There is no advantage to running a 5W30 in your situation.  The 5W30's only advantage over a 10W30 is that it flows better in cold temperatures.  You don't have that issue in Florida.  Further, in general a 5W30 will shear (thin out) much faster than a 10W30.  This is more of a concern with old carbureted engines that generally have its oils diluted with gasoline.

I think your best choice would be to use a 10W30 oil with lots of ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus additives, which are needed for flat tappets) .  Personally, I'd run Shell Rotella T4 10W30.  It's cheap, will offer lots of protection to your flat tappet cam, and can help clean up your engine a bit with a short oil change interval.  The HDEO (Heavy-Duty Engine Oils - diesel oil) are very robust and work well with old engines.  Another brand of 10W30 HDEO would work fine too.

 
Modern conventional oils are made for modern cars with catalytic converters and that don't have flat tappet cams, so they are not ideal for older V8's IMO.  You can use it but there are better choices.
 
If you are unsure or unwilling to run a HDEO, then at the very least run a high mileage oil.  Quaker State Defy has a healthy does of ZDDP.  It also has some additives to help with seal conditioning.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by 72FordGTS - 27-March-2018 at 2:04AM
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2018 at 1:21AM
Well, I certainly learned a lot! So, modern 5W30 is okay in my Torino? I don't want to spend much money on this car. It's not worth it, and I don't drive it too much.
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-March-2018 at 6:58AM
FWIW my comment was not intended to be applied to a fresh, healthy engine.

flat tappet cams have a 2*-3* taper on the lobe to rotate the lifter, which has a convex surface to ride the taper. worn cams lose their taper and lifters lose their convex to eventually become concave, how they manage to continue rotating in that condition is beyond me but they do for a while ...

why? IDK, lobe offset? but it isn't much

no way to tell the condition of a high mile engine that may be ready to stop rotating the lifters, also no way to positively tell whether the new slippery mixtures were the cause of the high mile flat tappet fails but some people thought it was more than a coincidence. cars died on their first synth oil change, and of course that was pre-internet so there's no digital trail. not exactly a bragging point so no oil company is going to promote the shadowy history.

no argument today's oil is pretty awesome stuff Smile


Edited by Rockatansky - 26-March-2018 at 6:59AM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-March-2018 at 4:27AM
Sal your explanation of dino vs synthetic oil is pretty much how I always understood it.  Of course there is some other difference too, like group V Ester based oils have some positive properties on seals, vs group IV PAO based oils.  In the end though I know some synthetic oils today, like Mobil 1, are a blend of group III, IV and V.
 
I think most people have moved beyond 3K intervals now.  Most people I know seem to follow the owners manuals, which these days seems to be at minimum 5K intervals.  I have never done extended intervals for a number of reasons.  First, some of my newer cars are still under warranty.  When a car has the powertrain warranty, I always follow the manufacturers recommendations to prevent any issues should a warranty issue arise.  

Second, living in an area that sees extreme winter weather, it's pretty damn hard on oil.  Without doing a regular oil analysis to monitor the oils condition, I don't want to take a chance and stretch the oil too far. I have no interest in doing regular oil analysis, especially when I maintain something like 9 engines.  I always fall into the "extreme" operating conditions due to the climate I live in.
 
Lastly, when it comes to my Torino, I like to change the oil once a year at minimum.  When I store the car in the fall, I want fresh oil in it.  It's cheap insurance if you ask me.  And since this is a carbureted car that likely sees much more fuel dilution than a modern FI car, I don't have any qualms about running short intervals. 
 
In end people seem to have strong opinions about oil, and I am okay with that.  Run what makes you happy.  With my new Torino engine, I am not sure what I am going to run since it will no longer have a flat tappet cam, but I will see what TMI recommends.  Funny thing though, if you look at some of those vehicles that are "million milers"  many of them just ran regular oil and changed it on a regular basis. 
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
mkshelton View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 14-March-2012
Location: Sierra Vista
Status: Offline
Points: 177
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mkshelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-March-2018 at 2:42AM
Wow. I think ive been "edumacated"! Thank you for the explanations. I will be looking at my oil purchases a bit differently now.
"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
Back to Top
Power Surge View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06-March-2016
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2018 at 1:43PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Also, IMO, the train of thought that synthetics are no good or "too slippery" for older motors, is BS (sorry Vince). I have been running synthetics in my old cars for over 20 years, and have never had one issue from it. As a matter of fact, my own 73 GTS is a good testimonial. The car has a 351 Cleveland in it, which most people know are prone to oiling issues. When I bought the car, it had regular crude oil in it. Cold start up would give me great oil pressure. But once the car (and oil) was warmed up, my oil pressure would drop to about 5 psi at idle. I honestly thought the motor had issues. I switched the oil out to Amsoil Zrod, and immediately noticed my oil pressure now stayed high during all times of driving. Even today with about 4300 miles on this oil, I have 30psi oil pressure at idle with the engine hot.  
 
I appreciate all your information Sal, but you misquoted me.  I never said synthetics are "too slippery" for old engines.  I have run synthetic in some of my older American V8's that I drove in the winter.  I did recommend a dino oil with a good ZDDP content and I stand by that recommendation for an old engine untouched engine like the OP 302.  I think a couple of short oil change intervals will help and I don't see the need in his situation run synthetic.
 
Generally, a good HDEO (ie diesel oil) has been a safe bet for older flat tappet engines due to it's slightly thicker viscosity at 100 degrees Celsius and higher ZDDP content.   AFAIK, Rotella has reduced the ZDDP package as of late, but it is still significantly higher than a typical OTC motor oil.  If you have something to show it doesn't have significant ZDDP anymore, please share this because lots of people use this oil in old engines.  I know QS Defy also has a more robust ZDDP, but it is a synthetic blend.
 
FWIW, here are a couple of virgin oil analysis results for Shell Rotella, but I couldn't find one for 10W30.  Looks like it still has a decent amount of ZDDP.
 
 
 
 
As for viscosity, I have always found it easier understand when you look at in in the cSt units at specified temperatures.  There you can see that at 100 degrees Celsius a 10W30 and 5W30 are pretty near the same, while at room temperature the 5W30 is thinner than the 10W30 (and both are thicker than they are at 100 degrees).  You can also see that not all 30 weight oils are the same thickness at 100 degrees.  There is a range that a 30 weight will fall into, roughly 10 - 13 cSt.
 
I am no expert on oil but I have read enough over the years to have an above average understanding.  While people argue all about the group III vs group IV and V base stocks, I have yet to see anything that definitely proves one is significantly better over the long run versus another as the additive package is also very important.  While I know Amsoil is top notch stuff, quite honestly, it's just easier to buy my oil form a parts store on sale.  I think changing your oil on a regular basis is more important than the type of oil you use.  I have had several vehicles go over 200K miles using nothing buy regular OTC oils, and with no oil or engine related problems.  That said, I do use synthetic oil in my modern cars, mostly due to the extreme winter conditions and longer OCI specified.
 
All that said, my Torino for years ran QS and Castrol 10W40 when my dad owned it, from the 1970's to the 1990's (I have run Rotella 10W30 since I owned it).  Even though the 10W40 was supposed to shear like crazy, this engine is as clean as a whistle inside and has great oil pressure.  But I can tell you in 45+ years it has never missed an oil change.

My bad... it was Rocky who said that about the cam.

The difference is oil base stock classifications, was once best described to me like this:

Think of your base stock, as a room full of balls (sports balls, you perverts). 

Crude base stock, is made up of different sized molecules. So basically, crude oil, and refinements of it, are baseballs, soccer balls, basketballs, and golf balls. Take a 10x10 sheet of metal, and roll it across the room. Which balls does it roll on? Obviously the largest ones (the basketballs). So you have all that other surface area that is NOT in contact, which also puts more stress (i.e. friction) on the sheet of metal. 

True synthetic base stock has consistent molecule size. The floor of the room would be all soccer balls. The sheet of metal would glide across the soccer balls dispersing the load across it's entire surface area. 

As for "benefits" of the different classes of oils.... I don't think the average person probably would see a difference, IF they keep up with their intervals. 

But, that now brings us to intervals. 

Let's say John Doe swears by Motorcraft Syn blend, because "it's what Ford puts in". So every 3000 miles, he spends $40 at Ford (or any comparable lube place) to get a synthetic blend oil change. He gets Motorcraft 5w30 put in is car. That oil shears down to 20 weight in 1200 miles. The additive package in that oil, is FULLY depleted by 2000 miles. So for the last 1000 miles of that interval, his oil is building up with contaminants and breaking down. Oh, and don't forget the cheap cotton media oil filter they put on also. 

Now let's say Jane Doe (they say women are smarter, right?) is using Signature Series Amsoil 5w20 in the same car as John has. The Signature Series oil is rated for a 25,000 mile interval. She also uses an Amsoil filter, which filters smaller particles than any off the shelf parts store filter. The filter for her car has a 15k service life, so she chooses to do her oil changes every 15k miles, even though the oil is rated for 25k. Her oil change costs $85. 

So let's look at 30k worth of oil changes. By 30k, John has done TEN oil changes, and spent $400. He's kept up with his intervals like clockwork, but has done ten times the work, and STILL had inferior oil and filters on his motor. Jane, by 30k, has done TWO oil changes, and spent $160. And her motor had the best oil and filter protection money can buy, even though she spent a third of what John did. 

And if you're eyes are bugging out of your head at the thought of a 15k interval.... well Jane Doe's scenario is actually my scenario on my daily driver 2012 Focus that does 60 miles a day. Even at 15k miles, the oil analysis shows there's still additive package left, and still 37% TBN (total base number - or "life) left in the oil. 

I'm not trying to convince anyone here to change what they do, but there are so many people still stuck in old school oil thoughts, that I just wanted to show some benefits (mechanical and financial) of running top tier oils Smile


Edited by Power Surge - 25-March-2018 at 1:44PM
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2018 at 12:23PM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Also, IMO, the train of thought that synthetics are no good or "too slippery" for older motors, is BS (sorry Vince). I have been running synthetics in my old cars for over 20 years, and have never had one issue from it. As a matter of fact, my own 73 GTS is a good testimonial. The car has a 351 Cleveland in it, which most people know are prone to oiling issues. When I bought the car, it had regular crude oil in it. Cold start up would give me great oil pressure. But once the car (and oil) was warmed up, my oil pressure would drop to about 5 psi at idle. I honestly thought the motor had issues. I switched the oil out to Amsoil Zrod, and immediately noticed my oil pressure now stayed high during all times of driving. Even today with about 4300 miles on this oil, I have 30psi oil pressure at idle with the engine hot.  
 
I appreciate all your information Sal, but you misquoted me.  I never said synthetics are "too slippery" for old engines.  I have run synthetic in some of my older American V8's that I drove in the winter.  I did recommend a dino oil with a good ZDDP content and I stand by that recommendation for an old engine untouched engine like the OP 302.  I think a couple of short oil change intervals will help and I don't see the need in his situation run synthetic.
 
Generally, a good HDEO (ie diesel oil) has been a safe bet for older flat tappet engines due to it's slightly thicker viscosity at 100 degrees Celsius and higher ZDDP content.   AFAIK, Rotella has reduced the ZDDP package as of late, but it is still significantly higher than a typical OTC motor oil.  If you have something to show it doesn't have significant ZDDP anymore, please share this because lots of people use this oil in old engines.  I know QS Defy also has a more robust ZDDP, but it is a synthetic blend.
 
FWIW, here are a couple of virgin oil analysis results for Shell Rotella, but I couldn't find one for 10W30.  Looks like it still has a decent amount of ZDDP.
 
 
 
 
As for viscosity, I have always found it easier understand when you look at in in the cSt units at specified temperatures.  There you can see that at 100 degrees Celsius a 10W30 and 5W30 are pretty near the same, while at room temperature the 5W30 is thinner than the 10W30 (and both are thicker than they are at 100 degrees).  You can also see that not all 30 weight oils are the same thickness at 100 degrees.  There is a range that a 30 weight will fall into, roughly 10 - 13 cSt.
 
I am no expert on oil but I have read enough over the years to have an above average understanding.  While people argue all about the group III vs group IV and V base stocks, I have yet to see anything that definitely proves one is significantly better over the long run versus another as the additive package is also very important.  While I know Amsoil is top notch stuff, quite honestly, it's just easier to buy my oil form a parts store on sale.  I think changing your oil on a regular basis is more important than the type of oil you use.  I have had several vehicles go over 200K miles using nothing buy regular OTC oils, and with no oil or engine related problems.  That said, I do use synthetic oil in my modern cars, mostly due to the extreme winter conditions and longer OCI specified.
 
All that said, my Torino for years ran QS and Castrol 10W40 when my dad owned it, from the 1970's to the 1990's (I have run Rotella 10W30 since I owned it).  Even though the 10W40 was supposed to shear like crazy, this engine is as clean as a whistle inside and has great oil pressure.  But I can tell you in 45+ years it has never missed an oil change.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
Power Surge View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06-March-2016
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2018 at 10:59AM
I don't want to get into a pissing match with anyone, so I'll just say I know a LOT about oil. I've been researching it for years, I'm big on oil analysis', and I'm also an Amsoil dealer. 

Oil viscosity is one of the most misunderstood things about oil. Not so much what the numbers mean, but more along the lines of how it all works in the real world. 

Oil technology today is light years above what was available when these motors were new. The heavier weight oils were needed back then, because oil sheared down in viscosity very quickly. In other words.... 10w30 oil would shear down to about a 20 weight oil, in just over 1000 miles. So you put in your 10w30, and 1000 miles later, your oil is really more like 10w20. This is still true with modern crude oils and cheaper synthetic blends. For example, Motorcraft synthetic blend 5w30 (complete garbage btw), shears down to a 20 weight in about 1200 miles. 

Now.. a HIGH quality synthetic (Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple), does not shear to a lighter weight. It will maintain it's rated viscosity. So an engine rated for 10w30 back in 1970, really just needs a 5w30 or 5w20 of modern high quality oil. I know this goes against all the moral fibers most old school people have, but it's true. 

And a note about full synthetic oil. They are not all created equal. America is the only country where we get to sell people fake full synthetic oil. All of your major commercial brands (valvoline, quaker state, pensoil, castrol, and even Mobil 1) are NOT true full synthetics. They are stage 3 cracked hydrocarbon oils. Meaning, they use CRUDE base stock, and refine it as far as possible, and then add in synthetic additives. This is still better than regular crude oil, but you are NOT getting the best protection your money can buy. TRUE full synthetics, are made from PAO synthetic base stock. Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple are the three big ones. 

Also, IMO, the train of thought that synthetics are no good or "too slippery" for older motors, is BS (sorry Vince). I have been running synthetics in my old cars for over 20 years, and have never had one issue from it. As a matter of fact, my own 73 GTS is a good testimonial. The car has a 351 Cleveland in it, which most people know are prone to oiling issues. When I bought the car, it had regular crude oil in it. Cold start up would give me great oil pressure. But once the car (and oil) was warmed up, my oil pressure would drop to about 5 psi at idle. I honestly thought the motor had issues. I switched the oil out to Amsoil Zrod, and immediately noticed my oil pressure now stayed high during all times of driving. Even today with about 4300 miles on this oil, I have 30psi oil pressure at idle with the engine hot. 

And speaking of Amsoil Zrod...  that is Amsoil's zinc rich oil for older engine with flat tappet cams. Everyone talks about zinc being important for older motors. However, almost ALL current commercially available oils that people believe are zinc rich, no longer are. Even Rotella.... they changed the formula about 2 years ago on Rotella. It is NO LONGER zinc rich. You can buy zinc additives, but I'd just buy some Amsoil Zrod and get your zinc along with the benefits of a true synthetic. 

Anyway....those are my views...take them for what they are worth. 
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2018 at 9:28AM
not the weekly special display 10W30 !!

and even if the gaskets do miraculously come off 'clean' they probably won't seal back up,

find yourself a free shipping deal

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=ford+valve+cover+gaskets&_osacat=6000&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xford+302+valve+cover+gaskets.TRS0&_nkw=ford+302+valve+cover+gaskets&_sacat=6000
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
californiajohnny View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 05-October-2013
Location: winlock, wa
Status: Offline
Points: 9368
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2018 at 7:42AM
if they come off perfectly intact, you could reuse them, but they may not....
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2018 at 6:56AM
Alright. So, it looks like no motor flush and 10W30 is the deal.

When I get the car back, I'll pull off the valve covers and take a look to see what the condition is. It's only four bolts. I got this! Haha. In the past, I only took vavle covers off to replace gaskets. Do I need to replace the gaskets once I pop the covers off? They don't leak as is.
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 2:49PM
Bobsyeroilguy is definitely a place to find the best most accurate info but yes like you said there are guys that have gotten lucky up till now


that thread started out so promising too Cry

i haven't reposted this lately,  https://540ratblog.wordpress.com

what's interesting is that you can add EOS or ZDDP additive and either ruin good oil or make junk oil good


Edited by Rockatansky - 24-March-2018 at 2:52PM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 11:41AM
I haven't been on that forum in a long time but last time I was there the general consensus amoung members who actually had knowledge was using a ZDDP rich dino oil was best for old American V8s. I have used Rotella for years with no issues. It's my go-to oil for old engines.

But like any forum there is a lot of opinions and not all are correct or informed.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 24-March-2018 at 2:32PM
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 11:15AM
i almost posted a thread from the Bob page but they have guys promoting full synthetic & 0W specifically for 1971 Windsor engines Thumbs Down synthetic can be Dead for an old engine! it's too slippery for a worn cam to rotate the lifters and they'll grind to a stop in seconds. Slick50 killed a lot of old cars when that stuff came out too
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 11:08AM
I agree with Rock. In 1971 10W30 would have been specified in almost all conditions. Both 5W30 and 10W30 are about the same thickness at operating temperature. 5w30 would be thinner than 10W30 when cold. Your engine has no need for this especially in Florida.

I'd run at least a 10W30 and something with a good ZDDP package like Quaker State Defy or Shell Rotella. I have run 10W40 and 15W40 in engines that consume oil with no issues. The 15W40 is a bit thick for cold weather but again not an issue on Florida. My Torino ran 10w40 for the majority of its life with no issues. Off the shelf oils now like a regular Castrol 10W30 will not have much of a ZDDP package. Your better off getting a fleet oil or something made specifically for old cars.

If you really want to know a ton about oil check out the forum at bobistheoilguy.com. Tons of info and super knowledgeable people with oil analysis results.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 24-March-2018 at 11:09AM
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 10:59AM
updated
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 10:51AM
Thank you. I grew up in a fuel injected world, and aside from my Torino, have owned my first and only car since 2009.
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 10:36AM
no documentation in front of me but i think 10W30 was the recommended oil pretty much everywhere on the planet except for the N & S poles? i don't think your 1971 engine never heard of 5W anything? 5W may introduce an oil usage issue, if you see the oil disappearing down the stick with 10W30 you might want to try 10W40 or 15W40. being in Florida you'll rarely need the W factor, and 30 weight may be light when it gets warm down there?

FWIW newer engines are built with tighter clearances to use the lighter oil in an effort to make better fuel economy, the old iron wasn't built as tight in the bearing clearances. new engines also don't rely on ZDDP like the old ones do, that's why you need a quality vintage or classic specific oil or the cam & lifters won't last long at all. look at the rating symbol on new oil, it changes almost every time you blink. here's a good link with a chart

https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/news/api-specification-this-is-how-it-works/

your 1971 was designed to use nothing newer than SD rated oil, SE may be a risk! the red bar warning that it can cause equipment harm is for new cars, that oil is what old cars need to survive. for a while until diesel emissions caught up, diesel oil was the go-to for old cars because it still had the additives for flat tappet cams but has since been reformulated the same way auto motor oil has to eliminate the necessary ingredients to prevent fouling the emissions equipment. modern diesel oil is still better than new car oil but not as good as the proper rated oil for your model year 





Edited by Rockatansky - 24-March-2018 at 10:59AM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 1:28AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

I agree with Rock avoid the flush. A lot of flushes are solvent based and can do more damage than good. You could change the oil and run it for a short interval then dump it and change it again. This may help clean out the engine a bit but do so gently.

Have you pulled the valve covers to see if you have sludge build up in the valvetrain?

Thank you!  I have not.  I always get a little intimidated when doing stuff like that.  In reality I shouldn't because I pulled one off of a 2002 Chevy Blazer, and the was crammed and full of extra "modern day technology".  So, a 1971 Torino should be cake.  Haha.
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 1:25AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

an honest to goodness Old Engine doesn't like to be cleaned out

just change the oil with a vintage or classic car specific product,

i'd go with 10W30 and let the clean oil do what it can

I appreciate the response.  What's the benefit of using 10W30 over the standard 5W30?
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
72FordGTS View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 06-September-2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2018 at 12:19AM
I agree with Rock avoid the flush. A lot of flushes are solvent based and can do more damage than good. You could change the oil and run it for a short interval then dump it and change it again. This may help clean out the engine a bit but do so gently.

Have you pulled the valve covers to see if you have sludge build up in the valvetrain?

I have used AutoRX before an a few old engines with some success. It is pricey but is supposed to gently clean and treat seals. This is the only flush I'd consider using.

https://www.auto-rx.com
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 4060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2018 at 6:23PM
an honest to goodness Old Engine doesn't like to be cleaned out


just change the oil with a vintage or classic car specific product,

i'd go with 10W30 and let the clean oil do what it can


Edited by Rockatansky - 23-March-2018 at 6:24PM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
SilverSatllion05 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 25-October-2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SilverSatllion05 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2018 at 5:48PM
Hey guys. I have a 1971 Torino 500 with a 302. I've had it for about two years now. It sits for months at a time. Long story. Anyway, I'll be getting back on the road soon, and I'm definitely going to SeaFoam the intake and gas tank. I'm curious about MotorFlush though, or any type of engine flush that you add to the oil.

Please don't hate me, but since the car spends most of its time sitting, I haven't changed the oil since I've owned it. I know... It breaks down over time. As soon as I get it back, I'm going to change the oil. But, in an effort to get the most out of it, is some type of engine flush through the oil harmful to an older car?

I don't know how many miles are on it. 57K, 157K, 257K, or so on. It's not in the best shape. I don't want to risk the flush damaging any seals and causing a bigger problem.

I'm new to owning classic cars, so please let me know. Thank you!
The Random Automotive
Website: http://www.therandomautomotive.com/
Twitter:https://twitter.com/therandomauto
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRandomAutomotive/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.