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Tubular upper A arms group buy

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cggrob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cggrob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2015 at 6:23AM

OOOOPPS!!!!!  That should be as below.....but y'all know what I meant!

 
Camber:  neg 0.5 +/- 0.05 degrees
Caster: pos 6 +/- 0.3 degrees
Toe in:  +1/16"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2015 at 4:52AM
Any pictures of all this stuff setup including these upper arms installed?
-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2015 at 4:19AM
Originally posted by cggrob cggrob wrote:

On my 1972 Torino, I have the Little Shop tubular A-arms with poly bushings in both upper and lower A-arms along with my rod end conversion for the strut rods. 
 
 
I am also using the Moog 80090 CVPI springs .  Car is lowered via the Fatman spindles, so I can't know what camber issues you may have after you cut the springs.  Here are the specs I used based on my experience with these cars:
 
Caster:  neg 0.5 +/- 0.05 degrees
Camber: pos 6 +/- 0.3 degrees
Toe in:  +1/16"
 
If you still have the big rubber ball on the end of the strut rod I would put the toe-in at +1/8".
 
This chassis likes a lot of positive caster in my opinion.  I note the stock factory specs for my 2008 Grand Marquis is 6 degrees positive.
 
I also used the adjustment in my strut rods to preload the lower A-arm bushing slightly towards the front of the car (would give more positive caster if used as the sole adjustment).
 
As above, the front springs are Moog 80090 CVPI springs with a linear spring rate of 710 lb/in and the rear springs were custom wound at Coil Spring Specialities to be 20% stiffer than stock and I want to say that was 220 lb/in and are also linear rate and give a 2" drop in the back to match the 2" drop of the Fatman spindles. Shocks are KYB Gas-A-just that came with the car and are too new to throw way right now.  Steering is via the Lares "quick-ratio" box with a new coupler, and the tie-rod adjusters are solid aluminum made for some other car - don't remember which one at the moment.
 
Lastly I added the big Adco sway bars front and rear (1 1/8" and 7/8" respectively). and I installed both the Spohn Upper and Lower Arms in the rear.
 
Tires are 275/35/20 on 20x10 front and 315/35/20 on 20x12 rear.
 
So how does all this add up?  Well, it's not going to be my Mustang, this is still a fairly large and heavy (iron head big block!) car.  Driving on the Interstate is confidence inspiring.  Car tracked straight with no wobble.  Mushy-ness in the suspension is gone and steering is crisper (not rack and pinion crisp, but darn good).  Coming off the Interstate, pulling a reverse bank 270 degree uphill sweeping off ramp the car was fairly flat, smooth, and responsive.  More road shock going over potholes, but ride harshness feels no different than stock to me over normal road conditions. 
 
I think that this is as far as you can go with the stock suspension layout except some shock tuning - I have spec'ed out some QA-1 or Viking double adjustable shocks and will probably play with that next. Some more spring stiffness in the back may help, but I need some more wheel time in order to figure that out.
 
I am looking forward to blasting around some more curves but I have an engine issue to attend to first. Will give a full report when I get it out on the road again.
 
 
 
 
Very cool...this was the  near exact setup I was working toward for mine.   I was thinking 750lb springs for the front and the stock rate except a constant rate of 180lb ish.   What made you go with 220lb for the rear?
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2015 at 2:25PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

 
Very cool...this was the  near exact setup I was working toward for mine.   I was thinking 750lb springs for the front and the stock rate except a constant rate of 180lb ish.   What made you go with 220lb for the rear?
I am running almost that exactly, 710 in/lbs CVPI springs front and 180in/lbs rear.  The car is really well balanced, really reduced the understeer versus stock.  Very little roll, excellent grip, zero float, little brake dive.  My road has some very rough sections, and I can say that the suspension doesn't do overly well on very rough surfaces (too stiff and get some hopping), but overall on normal roads it works very well.  Overall I think it's a great street setup.  I agree with Cggrob, this setup is about as good as it will get with stock suspension.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-September-2015 at 11:46PM
Are you running 20" wheels also?   Perhaps 17" or 18" with a bit more tire may be a little more forgiving on rougher streets.   I was thinking 245-255 40 series in front and 285-295 35 series in the back.  Any ideas which tire size might be better for street?

I dont want to go 20" but planned on 17 or 18" wheels.
-John
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2015 at 12:41AM
John I am only running 15" as I want my car to look pretty stock. I went to 15 x 8 front and rear with the same size tire for front and back. These cars understeer in stock for so I think running a big tire up front is very important to having good front end grip. I am running 245/60-15s to also minimize the sidewall height (for 15" wheels) and the tire sidewall buldge.  Under most conditions my car rides well except on very rough broken pavement.  A modern car handles the rough stuff better with more supple independent suspension. The stiff bushings and solid axle combo is the limiting factor.  I think you'll be fine with 17" wheels.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2015 at 4:28AM
I was thinking the min  size would be 245 for the front.  I would like to go wider except I'm not convinced that you can run 255 or 275 in the front without it rubbing "lock-to-lock".  (Note: my preference would be 275 in front)
 
I think Andy is running 255s on 17" wheel with 5" BS and I thought he said it rubs sometimes.  Not sure under what conditions or is it because the wheel had to much backspace.  I'm thinking 4.5 might the max backspace for the front such that it doesn't interfere under all compression and turning conditions.  
 
I've been dormant for so long that I have to reassess everything again.   Just got me thinking of somehow running 275s all around after reading your post.  I like the balanced stock look.


Edited by BackInBlack - 03-September-2015 at 4:32AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cggrob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2015 at 9:19AM
I took the  wheels of my 1979 Mustang tube frame car as I was upgrading that one, so the actual wheels started out as 20x10 with 5.95" backspacing but let's call it 6" BS.  I did this because I wanted to be able to experiment with different tire widths, diameters and backspacing on the Torino before spending any money on my final combo. This is the 4th 72 I have owned so I will throw in a little of my other experience as well.
On an unmodified car I had no clearance issues when I  used to run BF Goodrich 255/60/15 on a 15x7 wheel with maybe a 4" BS - don't quite remember. the rear had BF Goodrich 295/50/15 on a 15x8 zero offset wheel - would be 4.25" BS I believe.  You can look up specs but the 295 is only about 11" wide when squeezed down onto the 8" wide wheel and is 26.61" in diameter.  Fast forward to today's world of 20" wheels
 
Wheel and tire specs for my 1972:
 
Front - 275/35/20 Falken - measuring rim is 9" and this is on a 20x10 so actual inflated width is 11.4" and diameter is 27.7 inches.  Original wheel is 6" BS which I am running with a 1" spacer but have tested and will be moving the wheel out 1/4" with a 1 1/4" spacer.  So the ideal BS will be 4.75" . This had to be done as the wheels were hitting the Addco sway bar at full lock.  The extra 1/4 " provides that clearance and barely clears the fender.  Note that your fenders must be adjusted correctly and I also switched the factory hex head fender-to-inner fender attaching bolts to stainless allen head bolts with low profile washers.  This does not appear to be necessary until the car is at full lock and the suspension is compressed, then the sidewall will rub the bolt head(s) at the rear of the fender.  I am going to try a 295/30/20 next which has a section width of 11.6" but a diameter of only 27" and I believe this will clear and give me a flatter tread footprint on the road.  I will have to update everyone on this.
 
Rear - 315/35/20 Michelin Super Sport - measuring rim is 11" and this is on a 20x12 so actual inflated width is 13" and diameter is 28.7".  the 20x12 wheel was made by adding 2" to the inside of the same 20x10 wheel as the front.  So wheel back spacing is 8" and I am also running a 1 1/4" wheel spacer in the rear so for my combo BS = 6.75".  THIS WILL NOT FIT A STOCK CAR.  For stock cars 15x10 with a 295/50/15 is pretty much the limit.  Some folks on this forum have been able to get a 315/35/17 tire on the car but the diameter goes down to less than 26".  The main interference point is the front of the frame near the lower control arm mounting bolt, so that is what makes it possible to fit a wider tire.  This just wasn't the look I was searching for.  To rectify this, the frame was cut back to almost the inside frame rail just aft of the LCA mounting bolt and that frame cut-out scallop continued on to almost the mid-point of the axle.  The frame was re-inforced with 1/8" mild steel.  The wheel houses were cut out at the floor by 2" or so to be flush with the frame and the wheel house was jacked inward and re-welded to the floor.  I think that the Spohn arms I am using also give just an extra bit of clearance.  I have a 335/30/20 Michelin Super Sport in hand which is 13.5" wide but only 28" in diameter.  I am going to try and fit it but am pretty sure I will also have to roll the rear inner fenders for this one.


Edited by cggrob - 04-September-2015 at 12:46PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cggrob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2015 at 12:42PM
What made you go with 220lb for the rear?
Several factors though it was still a guess:
 
1.  much heavier front springs led me to believe this would balance the car out a little better
2.  control of the heavier rear axle - this I now a 31 spline 9" where as before it was an 8" housing
3.  wanted to reduce squat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2015 at 2:57PM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:

I was thinking the min  size would be 245 for the front.  I would like to go wider except I'm not convinced that you can run 255 or 275 in the front without it rubbing "lock-to-lock".  (Note: my preference would be 275 in front)
 
 
I think most people run too small of a tire for the front to get a raked stance or the big little tire look.  That's fine if that's what you're after, but not the best for handling.  I also think it's important not to run too wide of a tire for the rim, to avoid sidewall deflection (especially on 15" wheels).  Most guys who run 245's use a 7" rim, while I think an 8" is much better suited.  I think on these nose heavy cars that front tire size is very important for handling.  Look at a late model Z28.  It has MASSIVE front tires specifically to help it become one of the best track cars in it's class, even better than some cars that cost much more.  My 15x8's have 4.5" of back spacing and no rubbing issues whatsoever.  It looks like there is clearance for more.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-September-2015 at 3:14AM
Originally posted by cggrob cggrob wrote:

What made you go with 220lb for the rear?
Several factors though it was still a guess:
 
1.  much heavier front springs led me to believe this would balance the car out a little better
2.  control of the heavier rear axle - this I now a 31 spline 9" where as before it was an 8" housing
3.  wanted to reduce squat
 
Thanks for the tire info posting.  Big help understanding the clearance issues with a stock setup!
 
What wondering if going to stiff in the back would create to much oversteer.  I looked at the track Crown Vics P.I. Roush built for the Bondurant Driving School.  They had very stiff 1000lb/in springs and a massive 2" sway bar and kept the stock rear springs.  With this in mind I was wondering if they handled squat with progressive rate shocks instead of stiffer springs.  Just pondering the options...
 
I ordered the A-arms.  1 step closer.  Next the strut rod.


Edited by BackInBlack - 04-September-2015 at 3:17AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-November-2015 at 8:30AM
Thanks for all the advice and help!
 
Got a birthday present...new wheels and tires and upper a-arms. 
 
Wheels 18x8 4.5BS and 18x9.5 5.25BS
Tires Conti DW  245/45R18 front  285/40R18 rear
 
Wow...what a difference.  The tires/wheels fit exactly even with the edge of the fender front to back.  Now I'm focusing on the front suspension building it similar to Rob and Randy's.  Cant wait to get this sorted out.
-John


Edited by BackInBlack - 17-November-2015 at 8:31AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ogdobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-August-2016 at 2:55PM
hey guys were these a arms ever made? I am in need of a set... I am doing a coyote swap and need the extra room ;)

*edit yeah i found the link. ordering today
**side note, op you should add the little shops link/ordering info to the first post


Edited by ogdobber - 31-August-2016 at 2:47AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-November-2016 at 5:29PM
It's been a while, but as a recap: 255/50/r17 front, 275/50r17 rear. Wheels are a cragar D window steelie 9.5" wide all 4 corners.

I'm due to pull my front end apart this winter. Installing the rod shop upper arms. Need to order the Spohn rear arms as of yet.
Possibly Looking at a larger rear bar. Trying to locate a factory 1-1/8" rear bar, have a ling one a 75-76 XR7 Cougar.
Andrew
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2016 at 12:59AM
I had no idea there was a 1 1/8" rear bar that would fit.

Any ideas for a 1 3/8" front bar...I have a stock 1 1/8" bar but want something bigger.    Was researching and planning to install a splined front setup because there are no other options out there.
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-November-2016 at 1:16AM
There was a 1 1/8" bar but I thought it was only on the 1977-79 police spec cars?  I don't have a Merc parts catalog, but in the Ford parts the only cars having a bar bigger than 7/8" from the rear from the factory was the late 70's police cars.  Otherwise the 7/8" bar used on some 1973 competition spring cars was the biggest a civilian car got.  I believe Gary on here has a 1 1/8" police bar on the rear of his car.  I'd love to find one for mine.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torinogts73c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2016 at 5:24AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

There was a 1 1/8" bar but I thought it was only on the 1977-79 police spec cars?  I don't have a Merc parts catalog, but in the Ford parts the only cars having a bar bigger than 7/8" from the rear from the factory was the late 70's police cars.  Otherwise the 7/8" bar used on some 1973 competition spring cars was the biggest a civilian car got.  I believe Gary on here has a 1 1/8" police bar on the rear of his car.  I'd love to find one for mine.
And to think I bought that 1 1/8 bar brand new in 1977! That was the most notable change I did at the time sure helped with all the front end weight at that time with "crash" bumper on my 73 GTS. Ford catalog listed it as L.A.P.D. for 1 1/8 police and also listed an
 except L.A.P.D. police @ 1 1/16 as well ! Back then when I saw that on our micro-fiche I had to order one!
 


Edited by Torinogts73c - 08-November-2016 at 5:28AM
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2016 at 11:38AM
carl told me that he heard some of the later t-bird or cougars had big rear bars, i've never seen any. is that a solid bar? i'd love to see a pic of it
JOHN
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74 CORVETTE COUPE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-November-2016 at 3:47PM
T-bird bars weren't overly large, somewhere around 5/8" to 11/16" (going by memory). I can look it up later if you need the size.  The aftermarket Addco's are bigger.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torinogts73c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-November-2016 at 11:24AM
Oh yeah it's solid and heavy! lol! I'll take a phone picture and post it for you!
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

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