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Tubular upper A arms group buy

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Power Surge View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2016 at 4:58PM
Does anyone happen to have pics of these control arms installed on the car, preferably a front frame shot with no sheet metal?
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-January-2017 at 3:10PM
i just bought mine Big smile can't wait to get 'em!!
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2017 at 7:45AM
I guess this is still our only option? I'm not to worried about moving my ball joint back to adjust my caster. I'm not building a race car, I'm good with the handling of my car BUT  I do want to replace all the old bushings and joints and like the looks of the tubular arms. I know we are not talking apples to apples, but a buddy of mine  with a 65 chevy wagon, just purchased a complete upper and lower control arm kit with all new bushings and joints installed and even a new thru bar for under $300.00 shipping and all and every pivot point has grease fittings.  Is there nothing like this out there for our cars for the ones of us that are happy with the factory geometry.
1975 Gran Torino, Copperhead

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/75-gran-torino-soft-restoration-copper-head_topic15137_post169060.html?KW=#169060
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lynchster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2017 at 11:45AM
Originally posted by M Casey Stock M Casey Stock wrote:

I guess this is still our only option? I'm not to worried about moving my ball joint back to adjust my caster. I'm not building a race car, I'm good with the handling of my car BUT  I do want to replace all the old bushings and joints and like the looks of the tubular arms. I know we are not talking apples to apples, but a buddy of mine  with a 65 chevy wagon, just purchased a complete upper and lower control arm kit with all new bushings and joints installed and even a new thru bar for under $300.00 shipping and all and every pivot point has grease fittings.  Is there nothing like this out there for our cars for the ones of us that are happy with the factory geometry.


Sorry but it would appear we all have a fascination with a non catalog vehicle.
Chuck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2017 at 12:04PM
Originally posted by lynchster lynchster wrote:

Sorry but it would appear we all have a fascination with a non catalog vehicle.


LOL..so true..but it never hurts to ask just in case somebody knows of something thats listed under a different model but works great on our cars...This  group is full of great guys that are very adapt to scraping and digging to come up with something that works. We have learned to think outside of the box to get what we want, so I haven't given up yet.
1975 Gran Torino, Copperhead

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-May-2017 at 3:02PM
If you don't care about the built in caster, why not just have your arms blasted and powered coated when you have them out for new bushings?  When I did my suspension, this is what I did and it looks awesome when it's done.  These tubular arms weren't around when I did my suspension, but to be honest I am not sure if they are worth the cost for me.  I can get 5 degrees of caster with stock arms, I don't think I'd want more than that anyway. 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2017 at 1:54AM
Its only worth changing the upper arms if you want to change the suspension geometry for more performance....which will shorten the tire life.   Like Vince stated...you can get more caster with the stock A-arms (some have gotten 4 to 5 degrees with stock setup).   I wanted to start with 4 degrees and may go more depending upon how I used it for autocross.

Stock setup is good (for street) with upgraded sway bars, poly bushings in control arms, and CVPI springs.  It will have a good ride and handle better.   (Stock ride height)   Word of caution...from my research I would not use poly bushings on the strut arm (the big rubber doughnuts).   There is a history of those poly bushings fatiguing the strut  arms resulting in breakage.  (Easy to find reference to people racing mustangs and over time the poly bushings breaking the strut arm)






Edited by BackInBlack - 06-May-2017 at 1:56AM
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2017 at 4:00AM
Caster changes should not affect tire life at all. Caster doesn't affect tire wear.

I have these arms on my Ranchero project, but for more clearance, and not because I wanted more caster.
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BackInBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2017 at 6:43AM
In general, I would say if you change anything from the OEM settings it would be prudent to look at all the geometry to make sure something else isn't going out of whack.  Since there aren't any "packaged" kits where someone did the engineering for you; you'll have to do some homework to make sure you're changes don't screw things up.   4 degrees shouldn't be a problem, but it is near the extreme range of the OEM adjustment (i think its around 5-6 max).  

I was worried about the caster changes so I bought some software that helped me model the front geometry.   I didn't see any negative impacts with 4degrees caster increase.   I'm targeting 6...+/- some adjustment range. 

Sal,
How's that Coyote Swap going?   Do you have a project thread?   I thought about doing that but gave up due to the extend of the mods...
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2017 at 7:02AM
Originally posted by BackInBlack BackInBlack wrote:


Sal,
How's that Coyote Swap going?   Do you have a project thread?   I thought about doing that but gave up due to the extend of the mods...

Yeah man, it's in the Project Forum. Pics of everything I've done so far. Right now the motor and trans are mocked up in the car. Haven't worked on it in a few months now, as I have other projects going at the same time, but should be getting back to it soon. 
Sal Mennella
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75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 1:38AM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

If you don't care about the built in caster, why not just have your arms blasted and powered coated when you have them out for new bushings?  When I did my suspension, this is what I did and it looks awesome when it's done.  These tubular arms weren't around when I did my suspension, but to be honest I am not sure if they are worth the cost for me.  I can get 5 degrees of caster with stock arms, I don't think I'd want more than that anyway. 
 
Like I said I like the looks of them, but it's not like I built this car to jack up and put mirrors under it :)  The biggest problem I have is time, so a set up like the one I mentioned above would be great, but only if the cost is in line. I have all the tools and equipment to change out everything with new on the old arms, but still, to unbolt the dirty, worn factory setup and simply bolt on an all new setup would sure save time. The car drives great, doesn't follow every rut in the road and steering wants to return to center on it's own after a maneuver (everything you could ask for out of your caster setting on a cruiser) No big deal, if banging, pressing, scraping, cleaning and painting is my best option for the money, then banging, pressing, scraping, cleaning and painting I will do. 
1975 Gran Torino, Copperhead

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/75-gran-torino-soft-restoration-copper-head_topic15137_post169060.html?KW=#169060
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 2:13AM
I've been considering these but the price puts me off.....


Very low on my to buy list versus things like brake upgrades, ARB upgrades, LSD for the rear etc

if they were down at $200 I'd happily buy a set now
Barnaby

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M Casey Stock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 7:23AM
Originally posted by Nuggets Nuggets wrote:

I've been considering these but the price puts me off.....


Very low on my to buy list versus things like brake upgrades, ARB upgrades, LSD for the rear etc

if they were down at $200 I'd happily buy a set now
 
Exactly my take on them. The materials are not expensive and with programing technology, laying out the geometry has already been established. It seems that it's just because we have a car that is not as common, we must be willing to pay a higher price for a similar product, mostly because of lack of options, where in reality some of us have what we have, because we have LESS money to spend. If a company can produce a pair fully loaded and ready to just bolt on to a 55,56,57 chevy at the price I mentioned above, that it would seem the same materials and tech could be applied using Torino specifications, to produce a product in the same price range. 
 
1975 Gran Torino, Copperhead

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/75-gran-torino-soft-restoration-copper-head_topic15137_post169060.html?KW=#169060
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 7:29AM
If they aren't patented/copyrighted then you could easily buy a set copy dimensions and make a few sets to sell on, essentially all you need is access to a tube bender and basic fabrication tools......

I've been very tempted to do the same with 429/460 mounts now I have basic dimensions from the terribly made Crites ones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 11:07AM
Originally posted by M Casey Stock M Casey Stock wrote:

Originally posted by Nuggets Nuggets wrote:

I've been considering these but the price puts me off.....


Very low on my to buy list versus things like brake upgrades, ARB upgrades, LSD for the rear etc

if they were down at $200 I'd happily buy a set now
 
Exactly my take on them. The materials are not expensive and with programing technology, laying out the geometry has already been established. It seems that it's just because we have a car that is not as common, we must be willing to pay a higher price for a similar product, mostly because of lack of options, where in reality some of us have what we have, because we have LESS money to spend. If a company can produce a pair fully loaded and ready to just bolt on to a 55,56,57 chevy at the price I mentioned above, that it would seem the same materials and tech could be applied using Torino specifications, to produce a product in the same price range. 
 

Come on man.... I think you know better than that. Those $200 Chevy control arms are mass produced by machines hundreds to thousands at a time. Welded by robots. If anything, the $200 ones are more of a ripoff because they probably cost $20 a pair to make....

I'm not defending the $600 price tag of these, because I'll be the first to tell you it sucked laying out that kind of money for them for the Ranchero. But Little Shop made 10 sets of them, all hand made, all TIG welded. That's a LOT of labor time you're paying someone to make them, for very little return on 10 sets. 
Sal Mennella
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 11:36AM
As far as $600/Pr. goes, for a (Very) limited run, they had to design them, make jigs, bend/cut/weld materials they sourced.
You got off cheap, they gave you a hell of a deal.
I thought they also painted them...
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 12:24PM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

Originally posted by M Casey Stock M Casey Stock wrote:

Originally posted by Nuggets Nuggets wrote:

I've been considering these but the price puts me off.....


Very low on my to buy list versus things like brake upgrades, ARB upgrades, LSD for the rear etc

if they were down at $200 I'd happily buy a set now
 
Exactly my take on them. The materials are not expensive and with programing technology, laying out the geometry has already been established. It seems that it's just because we have a car that is not as common, we must be willing to pay a higher price for a similar product, mostly because of lack of options, where in reality some of us have what we have, because we have LESS money to spend. If a company can produce a pair fully loaded and ready to just bolt on to a 55,56,57 chevy at the price I mentioned above, that it would seem the same materials and tech could be applied using Torino specifications, to produce a product in the same price range. 
 



Come on man.... I think you know better than that. Those $200 Chevy control arms are mass produced by machines hundreds to thousands at a time. Welded by robots. If anything, the $200 ones are more of a ripoff because they probably cost $20 a pair to make....

I'm not defending the $600 price tag of these, because I'll be the first to tell you it sucked laying out that kind of money for them for the Ranchero. But Little Shop made 10 sets of them, all hand made, all TIG welded. That's a LOT of labor time you're paying someone to make them, for very little return on 10 sets. 



They're still $500 now though......

Yeah ok the Chevy ones are mass produced but considering your first batch run at $600 should have paid for the initial outlay of man hours developing and making the jigs they should be a lot cheaper than they are now! Especially as they'll have written the CNC program for the tube bender and laser cut part for the joint

There probably isn't more than $20 in the littleshop ones either, yeah they're hand tigged at say an hour per pair once set up so theres where your expense is but a good welder should be able to pop them out fairly rapidly especially on new clean material

Pretty sure they've sold a few more than 10 sets now as well! 


Barnaby

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 12:26PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

As far as $600/Pr. goes, for a (Very) limited run, they had to design them, make jigs, bend/cut/weld materials they sourced.
You got off cheap, they gave you a hell of a deal.
I thought they also painted them...


For a limited run they would have budgeted a profit margin they were happy with though, now that they're making them as an off the shelf part they should have dropped slightly. 

And those tie rods are ridiculous at nearly $400!
Barnaby

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 12:38PM
why doesn't somebody see about another group buy, get the other forums involved?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2017 at 12:48PM
To be honest, these are only really useful if you do track stuff or want a car set up for handling

For most people stock ones with new bushes should be fine

That being said I would still consider these if they were cheaper, but at the current price they are bottom of my list of things to do. 

The lack of available brake upgrades needs to be sorted first, I'm looking at making brackets up for AP solid callipers onto the stock upright, hopefully they can just be laser cut in pieces and welded together.....if not I may have to look at machining something on the mill, but that would be the single biggest improvement for these cars IMO 
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