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What type of 4 speed is this??

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Grantorinosport351 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05-March-2014 at 1:12PM
I'm thinking about buying this 4 speed. The owner said it wasn't a toploader, but I looked up a pic of the toploader, and it looks alike.
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 1:13PM
It's the one on the right.
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 1:34PM
I'd say dig'er outta there & click some better pics, my monitor is bad enough as it is

also post any tag info or stamped numbers you can find on it
use an inspection light & wire brush even

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 1:38PM
Try here

MAIN CASE IDENTIFICATION

4 speed Toploader maincases came in two bolt patterns:

The case on the right is a 64 narrow bolt pattern 4 hole case.The case on the left is a 65-73 wide bolt pattern 8 hole case. The inner bolt pattern on the 8 hole case is the same pattern as the early narrow case.

RF C4AR-7003-A:
1964 casting used in 64. Narrow 4 hole case.

RF C5AR-7006-D:
1965 casting used from 65-67. Wide 8 hole case.

RF C8AR-7006-D:
1968 casting used from 68-71. Wide 8 hole case.

D2AR-7006-CA:
1972 casting used in late 71. Wide 8 hole case.

RF-D2AR-7006-CB:
1972 casting used in 72 - 73. Wide 8 hole case.

XAA 12512 / ALCOA 2:
This is a factory aluminum case used in 69-70 in factory road race cars to help lose a little weight. A very small number of these cases were made, maybe 10. This case had the HEH HG White Stripe gear ratios in it.

On production hi-performance cars, a partial VIN was stamped on the maincase of the transmission on the drivers side upper ear of the maincase. These are usually found on Boss, Cobra Jet, Super Conra Jet, Mach 1, etc. Some of the early K code Mustang Toploaders were stamped on the bottom center of the maincase with the complete VIN.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 2:32PM
Thanks! and I'll try to get better pics when I go back.
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:10PM
Could be an 'overdrive' toploader. 

I'd run it if it were.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:12PM
Heck yeah! I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it's a toploader! I hope it is!
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:40PM
If thee are three levers on the side, its a 4 speed, if there are only two levers, its a three speed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:42PM
It has three.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:42PM
I agree with Paul. Looks like a later 4 speed overdrive. They had them in Granadas, Monarchs, Mustangs, etc... in the 70's and early 80's. Wish I could find a good one.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:44PM
Yeah, iirc the guy said it came in cars like the granada
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:47PM
So that's 3 speed with an overdrive gear? Does anyone know what the name of this tranny is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:52PM
at the risk of sounding stupid here?Embarrassed  i thought that top loader meant that the shifter came out of the top of the tranny (like a truck tranny) i do know the granada's did come out the top, a friend of mine had a granada and he broke the plastic saddle bushing in it so we replaced it down under the shifter in the top of the tranny. but yes^^^ if it has two shafts out the side it is a 3 speed,  3 shafts out the side is a 4 speed, that i do know!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 3:57PM
I thought toploader was because all of the gears and everything was located close to the top?

So is this worth trading my c 4 for?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 4:04PM
your call, but i would make sure you got the right shifter and all the right linkage and possibly bell housing with the z-bar and brackets, or you may be chasing unknown parts foreverCry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 4:07PM
Yeah, your right, I may wait until I find a complete toplaloader or I get all of the parts located for this one.


Anyone have a toploader, or know where one is?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 6:13PM
the 3sp + OD Toploader is affectionately called 'The Imposter'

they're called Toploaders because all the parts are loaded into them through the cover on the ... you guessed it... TOP!

the Imposter is not a full strength brute of a near indestructible 4speed trans, and from what I understand the shifter can be tricky. a guy I know just swapped in an Imposter & is having an issue with the length of throw on Reverse, could be his shifter or the linkage arm he has on there... ?

looks easy, huh?







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 6:40PM
4th gear is weaker sure.. How often do you do a WOT shift into 4th? I've had my truck as a 5spd for a year now... I tend to 'stop driving hard" after the 2-3 shift.. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2014 at 7:21PM
a lot of guys drive the same as you're describing, but it's a 5 spd not a 3, you've got much better (closer) ratios in the low gears

Bryan's 67 may get pushed a little harder?

mostly what I wanted to point out is the 1-3 ratios are more as a 3 speed. the car will not accelerate the same as it would 1-3 with a 4 speed, the ratios are going to wider than a wide ratio 4 speed and the car will accelerate accordingly. camshaft, gear & other tuning choices can be made to compliment the wide ratios, uninformed choices can present significant performance issues

most street/strip level 3 speed cars don't have ~much~ issue with the 1-2 change, but 2-3 fuggetaboutit! 3rd gear is 1:1

reminds me of a poor SOB in Germany, he didn't understand why his Ranchero's performance sucked... he had an F series truck box with a granny gear & PTO covers all over the thing

if I came across a good Imposter I'd grab it, but it ain't a 4 speed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 2:30AM
Thanks, are thi pics shown above a toploader, or the imposter, and if I was to buy parts for this, I'd call it a________?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 3:05AM
Bryan, what about just looking for a 5 speed? Plentiful, relatively cheap, great ratios, better performance, same look, bolts right up to your engine, and better gas mileage. Win, win, win.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 3:41AM
What cars do they come in? 90's mustangs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 5:34AM
1983-up to 1995 Mustangs are the most plentiful. Try to stay with the Fox body or 1994-1995 versions. The last two actually have a better fit, as the shifter is a tad further back.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 11:37AM
Bell housing might be an issue, depending on what engine he has.
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 1:13PM
Hey joe? Do you have a 5 speed that came with one of your stangs?
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 1:31PM
This page has basic T5 info to get you started.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml
P.S. avoid camaro/firebird T5. They're weird(angled mounts)
The above post should be read in a "Grumpy Old Man" voice.
Almost forgot: "Get off my lawn!!!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 3:27PM
Bryan, I do have the 4.6/5 speed, but it is going in the red wagon. The other 5 speed T5 is going in my 4 speed car.

If you are running a 302, any of the 5 speeds I listed above will work. The Fox bodies are cable clutch systems, not hydraulic like later models.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grantorinosport351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-March-2014 at 4:05PM
Thanks big bird, I've notice you changing you emblem a lot lol.

Joe, if you locate one of those trannys, let me know!
~Bryan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-March-2014 at 2:41AM
Craigslist, my friend, Craigslist. They are pretty common here and run anywhere from $100-$300. I'm sure Texas is loaded with them.
Joe
1972 GTSquire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psquare75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-March-2014 at 11:59AM
Never even seen one in person.. I ended up with a TKO since getting a used one here would be $200 + $300-400 ebay price + rebuild...... meh. 
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD*
78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1
79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1
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