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JMS48 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMS48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wheel Hop
    Posted: 01-December-2019 at 2:23PM
Hi,
I have a 72 GTS with a 4 speed. 
I’m looking to see if there’s anyone else that has issues with wheel hop. 

If so what can be done to correct the problem.
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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-December-2019 at 4:17PM
give us a few more details... like air shocks, is the rear raised or lowered, condition of the bushings, shocks, springs, trac lock diff, sticky tires???

 mine is raised and  has a trac lock it doesn't hop at allSmile

but the GM cars of this era have a similar 4 link suspension and when raised tend to hop! the cure for them is to extend the upper arm mounts about 1 1/2" so that the upper arms are level to angled down at the front mount as the rearend torques rearward at the top pulling the rearend up off the ground so by raising the upper mount on the rearend it is now trying to lift the body forcing the rearend down on the groundWink

 but this usually isn't the issue with these cars...
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Steve M. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-December-2019 at 2:31AM
I had a similar issue on my '76. My car came with stock suspension and air shocks. I replaced my rear springs, added a rear sway bar, and got all new bushings. The springs are MOOG CC 803 station wagon springs. The shocks are KYB Xel-G No wheel hop at all. The roads in Florida are flat. Once I get on a long distance road trip in, I'll know if my set up cured all of my wheel hop.
Steve M.
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JMS48 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMS48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-December-2019 at 10:11AM
Hi,
As far as I can tell it’s the stock suspension, no air shocks. 

No sticky tires ... yet .... stock 14 in rims. 

Guess I’ll run thru the suspension and look into replacement of  bushings and coils.



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72 RancheroGT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RancheroGT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2019 at 1:21PM
Another cause of wheel hop is unequal u-joint working angles.  As a shaft with u-joints rotates the shaft doesn’t turn at a constant velocity, it speeds up and slows down twice per revolution as the joint “breaks over”.  If the working angle of the joints is equal +- 1 degree the speed variation is cancelled out.  If the angles are not equal the drive shaft will drive the pinion at with the same speed up/slow down twice per revolution.  That causes the tires to do the same thing which causes wheel hop, it will also cause a high frequency vibration during normal driving.  This vibration will be about 5 or 6 times faster than a wheel vibration and it won’t be as strong, but it will be noticeable.  Sometimes the vibration can also be heard, it will sound like a constant tone you might get oil of a subwoofer.


On leaf spring suspensions the pinion nose “ roles up” under heavy acceleration because the leaf springs allow it to.  When it rolls up the working angle of the pinion u-joint “flattens out” while the angle at the trans changes very little causing the pinion to drive at a non-constant velocity and the wheels to do the same.  The leaf springs then would wind up and unwind in response making the pinion angle change even more, and it kinda turned into a vicious circle that could get pretty violent.  The old slapper bars, or traction bars prevented the leaf spring wind-up and the resulting pinion angle changes.  They actually worked pretty well.

So, back to your car, if your working angles are right at the edge of being too different from each other and you accelerate heavily, that causes the pinion to roll up due to the rubber suspension bushings.  Then you get the non constant velocity of your pinion, and wheel hop.  Another cause could be old worn sloppy rubber bushings allowing the rear axle to wind up.  To check the angles you need to measure the angles of the output shaft and the pinion, they should be the same, that is the output shaft and the pinion should be parallel.  Raising the rear end can cause them not to be parallel.  The output shaft angle cad be measured but measuring the angle of the starter housing or the engine oil pan.  You can’t use the trans pan because it is angled compared to the transmission shaft, but the started and the oil pan engine oil pan rail are both in the same angle as the crankshaft and transmission center lines.  The pinion can be measured by putting the back edge of the protractor on the pinion bearing support bolt heads.

All of this velocity change stuff is why front drive cars have “constant velocity” joints.  As the front wheels are steered the angles of u-joints cause velocity changes and vibrations, so they have to run CV joints.  Anyway, hope this helps with your wheel hop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2019 at 4:03PM
yes this is true^^^
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-December-2019 at 11:41AM
they're saying here it's bushing deflection


my 72 Q code used to wheel hop so violently the radio knobs fell off and the side window came out of the track.

the radio knobs were not loose but the window track may've been a POS

i've always heard it's the result of the loading and unloading of the suspension aggravated by axle wrap

whatever that means
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2019 at 10:47AM
I had a '72 GTS Sportroof with the 4 speed and factory competition suspension package. All factory and the rear end would hop like mad. Replacing the control arm bushings did not change anything as far as the hop. I sold the car before I dug deeper, but you are not alone.

My concern is that I'll have the same issues with my wagon when I get the 5 speed and 5.0 in it. It'll have far more oomph than the CJ engine had, so I'm replacing the bushings, adding a sway bar, stiffer springs, better shocks and boxing the lower arms when I finish the swap.
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
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unlovedford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2019 at 10:52AM
Actually, the term "wheel hop" does not accurately describe what mine felt like. More of a "The Earth was pounding upward on my car with a 5,000# sledge rapidly, while gravity was bitch-slapping it back down again with the force of a semi truck" sort of experience.
Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon
1972 Torino Wagon
1976 Torino       
1968 Cougar XR7-First batch
1972 Torino 460
1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous
Popeye and Brutus (Rams)
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72 RancheroGT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RancheroGT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2019 at 11:11AM
Yeah, it can get really violent right up until something breaks.Cry
Craig
72 Ranchero GT (Clone)
“Confidence is the feeling you have right before you fully understand the situation”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2019 at 12:28PM
boxing the lower arms and poly bushings will be a much added improvement Big smile


 i have to laugh at the camero guys, back in the day... threw on a set of slapper bars not shimmed up like they should be (damn near digging in the pavement) then wonder why it still hopsConfused ( the snubber needs to be 1/4" to lightly touching to keep the spring from winding up) Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2019 at 6:16AM
I have poly bushings on my car and zero wheel hop. Manual cars seem to suffer from it worse, but I'd suggest starting with poly bushings and going from there. Rubber just deflects too much.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

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Billy C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2019 at 11:37AM
I get wheel hop with the 275 R888 when I break it loose really hard in a straight line. In turns it will just loose grip and throw the back end out pretty smoothly. The 255 all season street tires will break free without any wheel hop. All mounting points will impact wheel hop as well as geometry and tires. Motor mounts can even aggravate wheel hop if they move too much.

Stock suspension pickup points
Rod end lower arms
Stock uppers with poly
Ford Trac Loc with fresh clutches (maybe not anymore)
definitely not perfectly aligned drive shaft joint angles
TKO600
sprung clutch
stock motor mounts and trans mount
-Billy Conturo
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