1978 302 |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Not really, we're talking about switching a carbureted engine with a EFI that has a computer and all that crap and that is what confuses me.
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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biggest issue with a EFI retrofit after getting EVERYTHING (harness, sensors & all ancillaries) from the donor vehicle is the fuel supplyit's been done a million times but you need a plan that works for you & your carif you can't get anything from a donor vehicle there are products out there to get the job done, but it's an expensive route
GM LS engines can even be adapted to run a Ford spec distributor & aftermarket EFI or even carb
Edited by Rockatansky - 17-August-2014 at 4:26AM |
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72 GT Ute
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Yeah, I've been on the computer non stop trying to figure this stuff out. I think I may just stick with the top end kits, way easier to install, and like I've said I already know I have a nice smooth running engine. Seems like you can run into to many hiccups when trying to go EFI
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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you should be able to put a carb manifold and dist on the newer motor, and not need all that computer crap, that's what i did on my blazer, since i was having fuel problems with it!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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So then what you're saying is you took a 5.0 roller and just set it up like a carbed engine? What is the benefit of doing that?
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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and you can always add EFI to your existing engine after the top end kit
221 choices here |
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72 GT Ute
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Yeah, I was checking those out. Why in the hell are the small block ford kits so much more expensive then the chevy kits??? Bastards.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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well no, my blazer has a 4.3 nonvortec v-6, it was loading with fuel when really cold out and many parts replaced and getting worse, i don't really understand all the computer crap, some but i know carbs! the benefit was - i can work on it, problem is gone, fuel mileage is about the same (maybe slightly better), more smooth power. but to your situation: one advantage to those aluminum edelbrock heads is that they will have screw in studs for guide plates so then you can run any brand full roller rockers! i contemplated that for a while on my 351W i kept my stock heads (for now) and cammed it , manifold, holley carb, HEI dist., gear drive. and had to go with comp cams roller tip rockers (rail type). it works great for now (may go with the aluminum heads later ) the advantage to alum. heads: lighter weight,flow better then cast iron, already machined for screw in studs, +++!
Edited by californiajohnny - 17-August-2014 at 5:20AM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Flo-Tek-203505-Small-Block-Ford-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head,46332.htmlCheck out these heads.....Ive seen some good reviews on them.
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Rockatansky
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72 GT Ute
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Crappy
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Maybe I am just cheap, lucky, know Ford interchanges, or a combination of all of these. I can find decent mileage Ford Explorer roller 5.0 engines for $500 or less around here. Great running engines, too. Get an aluminum intake, 4Bbl carb and you will almost double what your car had from the factory. Swap the oil pan off your engine, use your timing chain cover for the dipstick, and the factory headers off the Explorer and run your dual exhaust. That is the benefit to using a late model roller engine, It doesn't get any easier than that. You cannot spend $500 on your engine and get the same results. Later on, get the cam, rockers and do a little head work for even more power.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Rockatansky
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it is hard to beat Factory Ford Quality
first thing I would do is ID what you have there already, if it runs kinda great like you're describing you may already have GT40/P heads on that motor? 1978 was a long time ago, plenty of time to be overhauled & hopped up before you got it you could easily $pend away & not come out with a significant improvement, seen it plenty of times a guy tears down a great running engine because 'it wasn't built enough' only to put together an unhappy combo that needs to be re-worked again maybe just RDI (remove, dis-assemble & inspect) the engine you have, figure out what about it makes it work as well as it does, re-assemble & reseal before jumping the shark what if you just did your EFI on that engine as-is?
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72 GT Ute
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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That's exactly what I did to my t-bird. Advantages were 1. Engine was available cheap ($250) 2. All my existing accessory/front stuff bolted on. 3. The original engine had all the parts I needed for the conversion. There are a few odd bits to the conversion, but if you can afford to pick one up, you can build it on a stand and have it ready with less downtime. I now have a working low mileage roller cam engine with decent performance and mileage. The machine work and build quality of the later engines is better, and they weren't run with the crappy 70s oil that cokes up the inside of the engine. |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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unlovedford
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Yes. Not to mention 20+ years of design improvements. You can thank the Fox Mustang for all of these fine things. The 5.0 craze was one of the best things to ever happen to Ford and to all of us SBF guys with older cars.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Damn where are you, hook me up with some info on a engine then!
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6uevolqIg
Here's my car from today. Edited by weaverT1971 - 17-August-2014 at 9:55AM |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Weaver, exactly what Joe said!
ALSO, remember when you swap the timing cover to put the fuel pump cam eccentric from the original motor on the roller so you can run the mechanical fuel pump! Weaver, where are you?? I could do this whole job for you in a couple days to a week! |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Does that look like a stock 135hp 302 from the video?
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unlovedford
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Looks like it runs pretty well. I had a '72 Skylark with a tired 350/2bbl that would smoke a 14 inch 70 series tire as long as you held your foot in it. Gearing, and how hard you stab it come into play. Sounded like it was revving pretty hard when you let your foot off the brake.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Edited by weaverT1971 - 17-August-2014 at 2:12PM |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Regul8r wrote:
"Weaver, exactly what Joe said! ALSO, remember when you swap the timing cover to put the fuel pump cam eccentric from the original motor on the roller so you can run the mechanical fuel pump!" This is one of the "odd bits" I was talking about. Early EFI motors used the inner half only of a 2 piece fuel pump eccentric as a spacer. You need the 2 piece eccentric. |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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I had a 1980 Mustang with a straight 6. I swapped in an old tired 302/2bbl/AOD out of an early model Crown Vic with almost 200k on the motor. Drove it like that for about a year. Working at a body shop we got a wrecked 88 Mustang GT with a good 5.0 roller motor. I bought the car CHEAP from the owner. I also had another 302 non roller at the house, so I swapped ALL the 302 carburetor specific stuff onto the 5.0 EFI motor, bought an old (1960's)Shelby 4bbl aluminum intake from a local Ford guy. Timing chain cover, fuel pump eccentric AND the 302 water pump(the 5.0 w/p spins opposite due to the serpentine belts). Then in a LONG Saturday at the garage I pulled the 302 and put in the 5.0... BEST THING EVER! That had soooo much more power than the 302! ONLY issue I had was it was ALOT quieter than the 302 was! Used all the same exhaust, ALL the accessories and pulleys bolted right up including the crank pulley to the 5.0 Harmonic Balancer, Motor mounts, tranny bolts right up to the 5.0 flywheel, used the 302 starter. You CAN use the 302 distributor too. 1 long day and all swapped in with no issue! These motors are READILY available at the junkyards and on CL for CHEAP! You can even look for a 5.0 from a truck... SAME bottom end but has the E7T type heads that flow better than the car heads and almost as good as the GT40 heads. You could while you're at it find a 5.8 roller motor from a late 80's(87+) to 90's Ford Truck and it will do the exact same thing...swap in with NO ISSUE! Only difference is you would have to buy a 351W specific 4bbl intake as the 302 is different. But everything else is the same!
Edited by Regul8r - 17-August-2014 at 2:34PM |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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nice looking car! remember in the mid 70's they changed the HP rating system, so the newer engines were rated at way less power than what they might be compared to the old system
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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If you do use an older dizzy, you need to change the dizzy drive gear to a steel one, instead of the iron one that's on it. (another odd bit)
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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huh?
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Yup forgot that little bit! |
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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"huh?"
In 1972 they changed from "Gross" to "net" horsepower. Gross Hp was measured on a dyno with no accessories. net HP was measured with all the accessories mounted and running. At the same time they dropped the compression ratio and screwed with cams and timing for emissions reasons. The two numbers don't really relate to each other very well, but a 2bbl 302 lost 65-70 HP due to the change in compression/cam/timing and the new Net HP method. Edited by Big Bird - 17-August-2014 at 2:55PM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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weaverT1971
Member Joined: 21-June-2014 Location: jamestown ny Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Wow, so in all actuality I could be pushing closer to 200 hp with the set up I have now then.
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Until you know what you actually have, it's hard to say. You wrote that you thought it was a 78 motor, but it could be anything from a stock 302 to a 78 block with different internals. It does seem to do nice burnouts, but even a stock 78 302 will do that with a 3.50 rear gear. There are a lot of variables at work.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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