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1978 302

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weaverT1971 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 1:37AM
Originally posted by Regul8r Regul8r wrote:

I am curious as to why we are talking about needing info for an engine swap?
You are talking about swapping a 302 with a 302.
Nothing major, just all the 71 stuff needs to be put on the new motor.
The oil pick up tube, oil pan, pullies, brackets, accessories, dizzy, 4bbl intake and carb.
Keep the newer 5.0 balancer and flywheel.
Simple motor exchange same as if you were just pulling and re-installing the 302 you currently have.
 
Your motor mounts work, your exhaust works, everything else works too.
 
And I agree, look for the Mustang GT with the GT40 heads.
They accept different rockers (1.7) and work with a lot of the aftermarket add on options better!
 
 
 
Not really, we're talking about switching a carbureted engine with a EFI that has a computer and all that crap and that is what confuses me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:25AM
biggest issue with a EFI retrofit after getting EVERYTHING (harness, sensors & all ancillaries) from the donor vehicle is the fuel supply
it's been done a million times but you need a plan that works for you & your car
if you can't get anything from a donor vehicle there are products out there to get the job done, but it's an expensive route
GM LS engines can even be adapted to run a Ford spec distributor & aftermarket EFI or even carb  


Edited by Rockatansky - 17-August-2014 at 4:26AM
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:46AM
Yeah, I've been on the computer non stop trying to figure this stuff out. I think I may just stick with the top end kits, way easier to install, and like I've said I already know I have a nice smooth running engine. Seems like you can run into to many hiccups when trying to go EFI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:53AM
you should be able to put a carb manifold and dist on the newer motor, and not need all that computer crap, that's what i did on my blazer, since i was having fuel problems with it!Thumbs Up
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 4:57AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

you should be able to put a carb manifold and dist on the newer motor, and not need all that computer crap, that's what i did on my blazer, since i was having fuel problems with it!Thumbs Up
 
So then what you're saying is you took a 5.0 roller and just set it up like a carbed engine? What is the benefit of doing that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:00AM
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:06AM
Yeah, I was checking those out. Why in the hell are the small block ford kits so much more expensive then the chevy kits??? Bastards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:17AM
well no, my blazer has a 4.3 nonvortec v-6, it was loading with fuel when really cold out and many parts replaced and getting worse, i don't really understand all the computer crap, some but i know carbs! the benefit was - i can work on it, problem is gone, fuel mileage is about the same (maybe slightly better), more smooth power. but to your situation: one advantage to those aluminum edelbrock heads is that they will have screw in studs for guide plates so then you can run any brand full roller rockers! i contemplated that for a while on my 351W i kept my stock heads (for now) and cammed it , manifold, holley carb, HEI dist.,  gear drive.  and had to go with comp cams roller tip rockers (rail type). it works great for now (may go with the aluminum heads later Wink) the advantage to alum. heads: lighter weight,flow better then cast iron, already machined for screw in studs, +++!

Edited by californiajohnny - 17-August-2014 at 5:20AM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:39AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 5:56AM
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 6:12AM
Crappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 7:28AM
Maybe I am just cheap, lucky, know Ford interchanges, or a combination of all of these. I can find decent mileage Ford Explorer roller 5.0 engines for $500 or less around here. Great running engines, too. Get an aluminum intake, 4Bbl carb and you will almost double what your car had from the factory. Swap the oil pan off your engine, use your timing chain cover for the dipstick, and the factory headers off the Explorer and run your dual exhaust. That is the benefit to using a late model roller engine, It doesn't get any easier than that. You cannot spend $500 on your engine and get the same results. Later on, get the cam, rockers and do a little head work for even more power.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 7:51AM
it is hard to beat Factory Ford Quality
 
first thing I would do is ID what you have there already, if it runs kinda great like you're describing you may already have GT40/P heads on that motor? 1978 was a long time ago, plenty of time to be overhauled & hopped up before you got it
 
you could easily $pend away & not come out with a significant improvement, seen it plenty of times a guy tears down a great running engine because 'it wasn't built enough' only to put together an unhappy combo that needs to be re-worked again
 
maybe just RDI (remove, dis-assemble & inspect) the engine you have, figure out what about it makes it work as well as it does, re-assemble & reseal before jumping the shark
 
what if you just did your EFI on that engine as-is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 8:12AM
Originally posted by weaverT1971 weaverT1971 wrote:

Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

you should be able to put a carb manifold and dist on the newer motor, and not need all that computer crap, that's what i did on my blazer, since i was having fuel problems with it!Thumbs Up
 
So then what you're saying is you took a 5.0 roller and just set it up like a carbed engine? What is the benefit of doing that?

That's exactly what I did to my t-bird. Advantages were
1. Engine was available cheap ($250)
2. All my existing accessory/front stuff bolted on.
3. The original engine had all the parts I needed for the conversion.
There are a few odd bits to the conversion, but if you can afford to pick one up, you can build it on a stand and have it ready with less downtime.
I now have a working low mileage roller cam engine with decent performance and mileage. The machine work and build quality of the later engines is better, and they weren't run with the crappy 70s oil that cokes up the inside of the engine.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 8:28AM
Yes. Not to mention 20+ years of design improvements. You can thank the Fox Mustang for all of these fine things. The 5.0 craze was one of the best things to ever happen to Ford and to all of us SBF guys with older cars.
Joe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 9:45AM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

Maybe I am just cheap, lucky, know Ford interchanges, or a combination of all of these. I can find decent mileage Ford Explorer roller 5.0 engines for $500 or less around here. Great running engines, too. Get an aluminum intake, 4Bbl carb and you will almost double what your car had from the factory. Swap the oil pan off your engine, use your timing chain cover for the dipstick, and the factory headers off the Explorer and run your dual exhaust. That is the benefit to using a late model roller engine, It doesn't get any easier than that. You cannot spend $500 on your engine and get the same results. Later on, get the cam, rockers and do a little head work for even more power.
 
Damn where are you, hook me up with some info on a engine then!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 9:54AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6uevolqIg
 
Here's my car from today.


Edited by weaverT1971 - 17-August-2014 at 9:55AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 10:20AM
Weaver, exactly what Joe said!
ALSO, remember when you swap the timing cover to put the fuel pump cam eccentric from the original motor on the roller so you can run the mechanical fuel pump!

Weaver, where are you??
I could do this whole job for you in a couple days to a week!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 12:49PM
Does that look like a stock 135hp 302 from the video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:03PM
Looks like it runs pretty well. I had a '72 Skylark with a tired 350/2bbl that would smoke a 14 inch 70 series tire as long as you held your foot in it. Gearing, and how hard you stab it come into play. Sounded like it was revving pretty hard when you let your foot off the brake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:10PM
Originally posted by unlovedford unlovedford wrote:

Looks like it runs pretty well. I had a '72 Skylark with a tired 350/2bbl that would smoke a 14 inch 70 series tire as long as you held your foot in it. Gearing, and how hard you stab it come into play. Sounded like it was revving pretty hard when you let your foot off the brake.
Yeah it was revving pretty high. I don't have a tach so I don't really know for sure. Like I said the engine runs very well, I just want more. Ive only had the car for about 2 months. The interior is very nice with no rips or anything in it, I just put a new carpet in put a new B&M sports shifter in it and did some suspension work but that's been it. My plans were to do the engine and maybe a t-5 next year along with bigger wheels and tires....I don't really like the Cragar SST's

Edited by weaverT1971 - 17-August-2014 at 2:12PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:32PM
Regul8r wrote:
"Weaver, exactly what Joe said!
ALSO, remember when you swap the timing cover to put the fuel pump cam eccentric from the original motor on the roller so you can run the mechanical fuel pump!"
This is one of the "odd bits" I was talking about. Early EFI motors used the inner half only of a 2 piece fuel pump eccentric as a spacer. You need the 2 piece eccentric.
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:32PM

I had a 1980 Mustang with a straight 6.

I swapped in an old tired 302/2bbl/AOD out of an early model Crown Vic with almost 200k on the motor.
Drove it like that for about a year.
Working at a body shop we got a wrecked 88 Mustang GT with a good 5.0 roller motor.
I bought the car CHEAP from the owner.
I also had another 302 non roller at the house, so I swapped ALL the 302 carburetor specific stuff onto the 5.0 EFI motor, bought an old (1960's)Shelby 4bbl aluminum intake from a local Ford guy.
Timing chain cover, fuel pump eccentric AND the 302 water pump(the 5.0 w/p spins opposite due to the serpentine belts).
 
Then in a LONG Saturday at the garage I pulled the 302 and put in the 5.0... BEST THING EVER!
That had soooo much more power than the 302!
ONLY issue I had was it was ALOT quieter than the 302 was!
Used all the same exhaust, ALL the accessories and pulleys bolted right up including the crank pulley to the 5.0 Harmonic Balancer, Motor mounts, tranny bolts right up to the 5.0 flywheel, used the 302 starter. You CAN use the 302 distributor too.
1 long day and all swapped in with no issue!
 
These motors are READILY available at the junkyards and on CL for CHEAP!
You can even look for a 5.0 from a truck... SAME bottom end but has the E7T type heads that flow better than the car heads and almost as good as the GT40 heads.
 
You could while you're at it find a 5.8 roller motor from a late 80's(87+) to 90's Ford Truck and it will do the exact same thing...swap in with NO ISSUE! Only difference is you would have to buy a 351W specific 4bbl intake as the 302 is different. But everything else is the same! 


Edited by Regul8r - 17-August-2014 at 2:34PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:38PM
nice looking car! remember in the mid 70's they changed the HP rating system, so the newer engines were rated at way less power than what they might be compared to the old system
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:38PM
If you do use an older dizzy, you need to change the dizzy drive gear to a steel one, instead of the iron one that's on it. (another odd bit)
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:45PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

nice looking car! remember in the mid 70's they changed the HP rating system, so the newer engines were rated at way less power than what they might be compared to the old system
huh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:54PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

If you do use an older dizzy, you need to change the dizzy drive gear to a steel one, instead of the iron one that's on it. (another odd bit)
 
Yup forgot that little bit!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:54PM
"huh?"
In 1972 they changed from "Gross" to "net" horsepower. Gross Hp was measured on a dyno with no accessories. net HP was measured with all the accessories mounted and running. At the same time they dropped the compression ratio and screwed with cams and timing for emissions reasons. The two numbers don't really relate to each other very well, but a 2bbl 302 lost 65-70 HP due to the change in compression/cam/timing and the new Net HP method.


Edited by Big Bird - 17-August-2014 at 2:55PM
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weaverT1971 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 2:59PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

"huh?"
In 1972 they changed from "Gross" to "net" horsepower. Gross Hp was measured on a dyno with no accessories. net HP was measured with all the accessories mounted and running. At the same time they dropped the compression ratio and screwed with cams and timing for emissions reasons. The two numbers don't really relate to each other very well, but a 2bbl 302 lost 65-70 HP due to the change in compression/cam/timing and the new Net HP method.
Wow, so in all actuality I could be pushing closer to 200 hp with the set up I have now then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-August-2014 at 3:29PM
Until you know what you actually have, it's hard to say. You wrote that you thought it was a 78 motor, but it could be anything from a stock 302 to a 78 block with different internals. It does seem to do nice burnouts, but even a stock 78 302 will do that with a 3.50 rear gear. There are a lot of variables at work.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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