351 windsor |
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nckruddy
New Member Joined: 19-July-2010 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: 01-August-2010 at 12:10AM |
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Anyone know any easy mods or bolt ons for the 351 windsor? Just did headers and a true dual exhaust. Other than that all I got is a new alternator. Thanks
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occupant
Senior Member Joined: 23-October-2006 Location: Lawton, OK Status: Offline Points: 1973 |
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The first thing to do is get it back to an as-new tune. Any grease monkey can hook up a timing light, set the base timing, and adjust the idle speed and mixtures. It takes time, patience, and a good ear to adjust the base timing with road tests and then make the minute vacuum advance adjustments to make sure it drives right in all conditions.
Once the timing is set as good as you can get it, hook up a vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum and make adjustments to the carburetor. Then do the base timing and vacuum advance all over again with road tests. Once that's all done, it's as good as it will get. But that's step one. The fun part is doing it all over again if you change something. |
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ZCowher
Senior Member Joined: 20-March-2011 Location: New Castle, PA Status: Offline Points: 512 |
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Well if your up to it this wont cost you any money and will make a difference. pull off your heads, and don't port them but polish them the best you can, if you have iron heads this might take a while, aluminum not so much. But that will allow your fuel air misture to get into your combustion chamber alot easier. if you really wanted to you could take .001 to .002 (milled) off, but I'd domed pistons in before I did that. Just be VERY careful if you choose to take a little off the heads. If you go to much you wont be able to run pump gas in it any more as your compression will be to high. What Carb. do you have? you could also try a different intake, if your running a stock intake you could try a different intake depending on what you have. You could put a HE ignition on there, it would bump up how hot your spark is and make sure you burn all of the gas in the chamber,getting more power, associated with that is good spark plugs, I recommend Boush Platinum plugs. They are 6 bucks a piece but they will make a difference. Doing your ignition might bump up your gass mileage a little to which is always nice.
* note * Do what occupant suggested first, what he suggested all directly relates to what I suggested and is critical. Have fun! and tell me what you think!
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ZC
2016 F-150 xl 2.7 liter 73 Gran Torino Formal roof, Ten damn years, and its almost there. |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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if you do polish the heads, polish the exhaust side like a mirror, but be careful on the intake, you can't polish to much, otherwise, it will slow down the flow, you actually smooth it down, but it still need to be a little rough
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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E7T or GT40 heads, a good 4bbl intake, 650-750 4bbl carb, Cam, 1.73 roller rockers.
As for the heads you can go in the exhaust port side and grind/port the hump out of it!
That hump is the EGR scavenging hole, it can be just ground off and plug the back of the head with a short bolt.
Other option is keep your eye out for someone on CL or locally selling a built motor for a project they are no longer doing. Can pick some up fairly cheap.
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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73 GT Sport 429
Senior Member Joined: 25-October-2010 Location: TarponSpringsFL Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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The humps in the exhaust ports are there for the Thermactor air injection . They will have a hole drilled in them only if the car is equiped with a thermactor air pump. The pump blows air out of the "holes" into the center of the exhaust ports in order to cause a more complete combustion of unburned hydocarbons. Wether they are drilled or not these 'humps' can be removed with a die grinder. The EGR valve gets its exhaust supply from the exhaust crossover built into the bottom of the intake manifold that was already used to heat the fuel mixture. EGR dilutes the intake charge with a small amount of exhaust in order to reduce combustion temperature and thereby lower oxcides of nitrogen. Not trying to bust your chops Carl. Just clarifying. |
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Mark
original owner-93 Lightning 73 Gran Torino Sport 429 (prodigal son) |
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302ford
Member Joined: 24-February-2008 Location: vancouver Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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What? Is that sarcasm? If not, please explain why every high end cnc'd aluminum head has perfectly smooth intake/exhaust runners.
EDIT: I just realized this got bumped from August 2010 Edited by 302ford - 01-April-2011 at 2:55PM |
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79 LTD II 408/TKO/3.7's
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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if you do polish the intake like a mirror, gas will just bump into the wall and create a distortion that will slow down the flow.
There's a difference between smooth and polish as well. For the exhaust, it's not so much a concern as gas are pushed and not pulled. I got that from a friend of mine in France, he's a top notch mechanic for the Pescarolo Team here's a link to a discussion, i'm not sure i have enough vocabulary to explain, but if you do understand french, i can |
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302ford
Member Joined: 24-February-2008 Location: vancouver Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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So Ilyes for the confusion...I though you meant rough like an "as cast" head, vs a Cnc'd head. Not cnc vs. mirror finish. My bad
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79 LTD II 408/TKO/3.7's
11.78 117.3mph. drag radials |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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nope, mine lol, i didn't explain it right.
Cast would still be better than polish though. If you want, you can polish it but then, brake it down with some 220 grid
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Sorry for any confusion.
The 302/5.0 heads on the race motor I bought have the humps removed, wow they sure feel alot different and bigger when you fell inside the ports.
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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I need to get a new camshaft for my 351. Car has a 650 cfm summit carb, dual plane intake, headers and dual exhaust. what does anyone suggest in the lower priced spectrum?
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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what rear gear?
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72 GT Ute
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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It's stock 9" in an elite. Probably 2.76?
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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I may change to 3.0 since I'd like to make this car an easy going highway car. Cruising at around 70 mph.
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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another consideration is how much work do you want to do to the heads if needed?
valvesprings can be changed with the heads on the car but to clearance guides/retainers for more lift you might need to pull the heads off
without knowing what kind of clearance you have for lift, with the stock rear gear i'd say i wouldn't go any bigger than a Comp 270H(224* @ .050")... on the way smaller down the rest of the choices there are the 268H(218* @ .050"), 260H(212* @ .050"), 265DEH(211*/223* @ .050") and the 255DEH(203*/216* @ .050")
Elgin cams probably has more than a few choices to consider
Edited by Rockatansky - 01-April-2012 at 6:24PM |
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72 GT Ute
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Regul8r
Admin Group Moderator Joined: 26-December-2007 Location: Sarasota FL Status: Offline Points: 6624 |
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Best bet is call one of the big dealers and tell them what you have and they will give you several options.
Summit, PAW, Edelbrock etc...
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Carl Corey (Moderator/Event Coordinator) Contact ANYTIME!
1976 Ford Elite "Lola Mae" 97 Suzuki Intruder 1400 US Army Retired |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Build a Windsor right, and it can be a powerhouse. Stroker kits, heads, EFI setups with high-flow injectors...Mmmm, Mmmmm.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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performance-wise the biggest limiting factor is the peanut sized exhaust ports in the stock heads, there's no point in building it above/beyond its' breathing ability. so far expectations are on the right track, with a highway gear and mild cam she'll be a runner
Edited by Rockatansky - 02-April-2012 at 7:33PM |
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72 GT Ute
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Thanks for the input, I'm thinking this would be a good cam for what I want.
Edelbrock Performance Plus Cam Any thoughts?
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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kenneth
Senior Member Joined: 19-May-2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1373 |
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The best thing you can do is take all the variables that you intend to run with = Torque converter stall rating, final drive ratio, inlet, exhaust size, compression ratio (or best estimate), stroke, how much vacuum will be demanded/required = boosted brakes or not/accessories, valve sizes, port sizes, rocker ratio, even tyre size if my memory serves me etc. Mention all that info the cam supplier and what your intentions are with the engine. It’s in their best interest to supply you the right one for your combination. Max posted this link for me but I found it far too much for my small brain - http://www.camquest.com/ |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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the Edelbrock cam is very similar to the Comp 255DEH, defintely in the range of options. the 204*/214* @ .050 durations will work well with the lowest numerical highway gears and stock converters so you're good there
i'm just not familiar enough with Windsors to say whether or not the stock retainer hardware will work or which valve springs you'll want to use. at only .472 lift i really doubt there'll be any interference or coil bind issues but your old tired springs may not be up to the task of controlling the valves with snappier lobes telling them what to do
here's the instruction sheet with the spring recommendations down the page, lots of good info
holy cow from the looks of things here
you could use the leftover spaghetti stuck in the pot for springs from what Edelbrock is showing!
only 70# seat pressure???! i'd leave the stock springs in and run it, doubt you'll see a problem but you should still check your coil bind clearance when you install the first intake & exhaust rockers to be sure it's all cool
now, what about degreeing it in so it performs as it's supposed to? Edited by Rockatansky - 06-April-2012 at 8:27AM |
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72 GT Ute
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Thanks Max for the info. I think I will get new springs just in case.
Please explain what degreeing exactly is, I've heard of it and even seen someone working on it with a degreeing wheel but I'm not sure what the desired result is. |
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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epicbowler
Brand New Member Joined: 03-April-2012 Location: Huntington, IN Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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get a cleavland instead
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72 Gran Torino Sport 351C
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OleDutchD
Member Joined: 02-August-2003 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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With OEM heads and lower compression, x2 on the Comp Cams 255 or 265DEH cams. Very easy on parts. Buy the full cam kit w/ matched springs.
As for the question of polishing (or NOT) intake ports, unless you're building for top-end power and plan on KEEPING the revs there, don't do it. At lower rpm's (under, say, 6500 rpm's), a slightly rough finish promotes better boundary layer flow, keeping fuel in suspension, not only along the length of the port, but ESPECIALLY at the short turn radius as the flow turns into the valve throat. With a true "polish", unless you keep the revs up, fuel tends to fall out of suspension and cling to the port walls. Some years ago, a cousin of mine bought a former race car ('69 Camaro w/ 500+hp 350, 'Glide and 5.13's)from one of the local "legends" and was determined to drive it on the street. The builder was a true cylinder head guru with his own flow bench and dyno, and the car WAS very impressive (for 1978). One night, my cuz was cruisin' the local hot spots and after one particularly high-strung low-gear blast hangin' the front hoops in the air, he let off the throttle, the butterflies slammed shut, revs dropped and those mirror finish ports "loaded up"... an intake hung open for just a "heartbeat" (kinda poetic) and he had himself a MASSIVE carb fire. Dear God.... Point being, polished ports rely solely upon kinetic energy and accelerated airflow to keep things moving. Without them, they're slugs. You didn't mention budget, and I'm not on here enough anymore to keep up with things, but if you could swing them, a decent set of aluminum heads would do wonders for your 351W. You DON'T have to spend a ton of cash! A set of out-of-the-box TrickFlow Twisted Wedges would do the trick. Ran TW's on the 351W in my old '72. Forget all the latest, greatest, biggest, baddest hype in the rags and bench racing forums. Truth is, unless you run over .540" lift and duration exceeding 230* @ .050"... there's nothing to be concerned with. As-cast, out-of-the-box, the TW's flow like sewer pipes compared to OEM castings, the revised valve locations unshroud the valves at the cylinder walls promoting better low-lift flow and are good to well over 450HP. With the 170cc intake ports, on a 351, port velocity is great (torque). On my old '72, with a CompCams 274EX, RPM Air-Gap intake, 750DP (waaay too much carb), FPA headers and 3" dual exhaust (again... waaay too much), that 351W was making over 400HP at the flywheel. Not the baddest boy on the block, but a lot of fun and would spin to 6300+ without missing a beat. |
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Just an analog guy stuck in a digital world!
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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degreeing the cam is the process of making sure that it is timed to the crankshaft as the manufacturer designed it to be. replacement and aftermarket timing gear sets are not all the same, the crank keyway and cam dowels are in slightly different locations from one brand to another
some timing set manufacturers have multiple crank key slots so you can easily make the corrections to align the cam to the crank as it was designed, in the old days you would need an offset key or an offset bushing kit for the cam sprocket. most will supply 3 key slots in the crank gear but some have 9 positions. even with 3 positions sometimes you have to settle for 'as close as it gets' which is better than not checking or guessing but with 9 positions you should be able to rest easy
in the video, it's a lot easier to bend the coat hanger pointer than to loosen & retighten the degree wheel accurately Edited by Rockatansky - 05-May-2012 at 11:01AM |
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72 GT Ute
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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Thank you for the info guys
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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