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351-4v?? |
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hamilton7711 
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 Topic: 351-4v??Posted: 01-August-2023 at 12:37PM |
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Is a 351 4 V considered a Cobra jet engine?
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78FordLtd2
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Posted: 01-August-2023 at 4:15PM |
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It depends if it is a 1971 351-4v or not. The 351 Cobra Jet was only available in 1971. After 1971 Ford dropped the "Cobra Jet" name and referred to it as just the Cleveland in either 2v or 4v versions. Essentially the same engine as 1971 but detuned...like everything else, but it had the same heads, cam and exhaust. The valve timing was retarded by 4* along with lower compression ratios after 1971. There was little point in calling it a Cobra Jet after 1971.
The 1971 Boss 351 was marketed as the 351 HO for 1972. Again, same engine but detuned for emissions and then it too was gone by 1973. And then by 1975, the Cleveland was turned into the Modified and was no longer a "performance" engine. However, in some advertising literature, the 351M was marketed as "the new Cleveland" but it was by no means the same. |
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 02-August-2023 at 1:02AM |
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The sibling of the Torino was the Montego and I have some different info from my Montego database. My 73 Montego was a CJ. But my understanding that 73 was the last year for the Q code cobra jet engine in the Torino/ Montego. The Q code 351 was the 4V CJ engine. Also, they only made 1120 Cobra Jets in 73, of which 197 were 4 speeds. For 1973, the H code 351 was the 2V engine. Also, my understanding that all of this info was independent from the Windsor and Cleveland designations as I heard that the Windsors were 2Vs but the Cleveland could be either a 2V or a 4V. In 1972, FoMoCo made 1052 of the Q code Cobra Jet engines, with 205 being 4 speeds. They did 3416 examples of the H code 351 2V. A couple of weeks ago, I picked up a 1971 Cougar and in the beginning of my research with the 71 model years is that there were four different engine codes for the 351 for that year. I am finding that there were two 2V engines and two 4V engines. The M code 351 was the 4V Cleveland engine (what I have in my Cougar) and the Q code 351 was the 4V Cobra Jet engine. Clear as mud now?
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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hamilton7711
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Posted: 02-August-2023 at 1:42AM |
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This engine is in a 72 GTSS. Not sure what code. Thanks.
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 02-August-2023 at 5:41AM |
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It will be the fifth digit in your VIN.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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78FordLtd2
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Posted: 02-August-2023 at 4:12PM |
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Yes, you atr correct and thanks for making the info a bit more clear. From the info that I have, Mercury did market the Q code 4bbl version as a Cobra Jet in the Montego and likely the Cougar as well after 1971. Even though the Q code was available until 1974, I was never completely sure if it was still dubbed the Cobra Jet or not and with increasing pressures from insurance companies and govt agencies, etc, etc, dropping the name completely but still keep the engine, even though it was de-tuned, seemed to make the most sense.
Yhe H code 351 2v does not distinguish which engine it would have been installed as there was a 50-50 chance that either the Windsor or the Cleveland would have been installed. The only way to tell would be to look under the hood as they both carried the same code and had the same power output. It was the same for the truck line as well.
Edited by 78FordLtd2 - 02-August-2023 at 4:23PM |
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fordpower
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Posted: 03-August-2023 at 11:17AM |
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another way to tell I have been told was after70 till 73 a real one has 4 bolt main both have or all three have the large main cap but only cobra jet was 4 bolt.
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 04-August-2023 at 11:55AM |
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The actual engine parts and details, the name, all became vague and random for 1972 and 73. The Fed mandates forced the lower compression in all engines, so the heads couldn't be closed chamber regardless of names or number of "bars" etc. The four bolt mains are trivial because the blocks were all identical(any four bolt main cap can be installed on any two bolt Cleveland block). So use the Cobra Jet name if you like it for any model, it's just the name. The real meat is the compression(closed chambers or not), and level of heads built. You can do anything to any of the heads, though it's very expensive now(used to be $300 for the works in the early 80's). FYI, another trivia detail, all Boss 351's and the 351 HO called for six quarts of oil. But they had the identical oil pan as all Cleveland's of that body style, the dip stick is believed to be marked one quart higher. The higher rpm can use the oil, but it better have a windage tray and preferably a higher end pan anyway.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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72FordGTS
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Posted: 04-August-2023 at 1:48PM |
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This article explains the differences for the 351Cs in detail:
For 1972 for Torino it was either a H-Code 351-2V (Cleveland or Windsor) or Q-Code 351C-4V, which was a CJ. Both were low compression regular gas engines. The 1970-71 Torino only used the M-Code 351-4V which was a high compression engine that use premium fuel but not a Cobra Jet.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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hogfiddles
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Posted: 04-August-2023 at 1:59PM |
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And, to confuse things more.....
The M-code engine for 1969 was a 351w-4v. That’s what my ‘69 project is Dfox
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 04-August-2023 at 2:49PM |
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LOL, do you need an intake for that? I built a 351W for my 1986 Crown Vic with a 69 intake that might be a match for that. The engine ran well but the cam lost a lobe after about six months. I expect it was a cam bearing installed wrong, starving a couple of lobes of oil. I then bought a used 1988 Mustang GT engine and made it EFI, which was better than the Holley carb 351W.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 04-August-2023 at 4:06PM |
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My 71 Cougar that I just picked up is a M-code 351C-4v. Crazy! I also thought all Windsors came with 2V only?
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 04-August-2023 at 4:13PM |
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You following all of this Hamilton?
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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hamilton7711
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 12:59AM |
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Yes but it’s a lot to digest!!
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 2:35AM |
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It may be, this is the best place for helpful information though. There are a lot of knowledgeable and cool guys in here that are always ready to help. I have even purchased impossible to find parts from others in here. What is the fifth digit in your vin?
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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hamilton7711
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 3:04AM |
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Don’t have a car yet. Just trying to get educated from the experts like you. I appreciate all your persistence and help. Thanks.
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 6:32AM |
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No problem. When you do find one, post info on this forum, and please provide some pics (even if it is not a looker.) We all started someplace.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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hamilton7711
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 6:36AM |
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Believe me it will be a looker! I have just sold all my corvettes which were a 61, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2017 and a 2019. I owned a 73 GTSS in college and just have the itch to get another one.
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hogfiddles
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 6:40AM |
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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hogfiddles
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 6:43AM |
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I’d be interested in it— depends on cost, shipping cost..... Dave Fox
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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kychevyguy
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Posted: 05-August-2023 at 8:40AM |
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Don, if Dave is not interested in it, I might be.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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78FordLtd2 wrote: