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400 bellhousing for auto to manual swap

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handsofstone View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28-August-2021 at 5:20AM
  In the future, I plan on swapping from the C6 to a 4-speed. Is there a bellhousing that is a direct swap so all the original Gran Torino parts backing a 351C onto my 400? I could do an engine swap too but would rather use the built engine already in the car. The big block bolt pattern leads me to truck forums and answers are all over the place 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2021 at 9:11AM
Censored the truck bells! notice the comment below the chart.

i find it hard to imagine that Ford didn't build any 429/4spd cars, that's the bell you're looking for

there may also be some 351M/400 cars built that used the 'Toploader Imposter' transmission?
if so that bell would work also, it would have a D7xx cast code



chart from http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com
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handsofstone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2021 at 11:47AM
Really disappointing.  Summit lists one but it is over $800 and I don't see specs listed. The depth is good to know for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2021 at 2:14PM
Do you want a four speed manual, is the manual the goal? The big block pattern makes trans choices tough, the SBF has tons of possibilities. I'm aiming for a 4R70 automatic, but the 6R80 is a much better trans, only more trouble and at a good $2k extra.
Don
73 Ranchero Sport "72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE, OBDII 347/4R70W
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handsofstone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2021 at 2:25PM
   Yeah. Going to a four speed from a C6. Not sure the 429 bell for a 70 is going to be the right one. And unless the car has the original running q code engine it really screws up my plan. To change out the whole drive line would add thousands to an already expensive project. Then add exhaust to the mix. Grrr...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2021 at 3:41PM
an auto type transmission adapter might work out surprisingly well for about $1k,
might even fix the driveshaft length issue? i forget which is longer / shorter

why don't you think a 429 car toploader bell is right for a toploader in a car with the same bell pattern?
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handsofstone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-August-2021 at 4:12PM
   I would have the whole car to strip. The 429 bell would be the one. This whole deal  would put me $5k in the hole without even turning a wrench.  Getting really cold feet. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-August-2021 at 5:15AM
Hello Guys.

On the factory bellhousing question, I can tell you for a fact that the 351m 400 truck bellhousing will absolutely work in a car application.

There are a couple details to work through, but it is bolt in with the right parts and possibly having to trim the pilot bushing surface on the input shaft to length.

Still working on this project and just about buttoned up, but this is a 460, 400 truck bell, big in/out toploader in my 1969 Montego.

I have a 1970 429 SCJ bell and the truck bell, put them face down on a bench side by side and the height difference between them was (going from memory now) about or less than 3/16" with the truck bell being the shorter.

I did not measure the height of the truck bell against a small block bell, but the input shaft length is the same to the pilot area. 

The difference in length between the big & small input shafts is on the pilot bushing surface only, the "Trick" in the old days for using a small input in a big block application was to trim the pilot bushing surface to the shorter length, if using a small input with the truck bell, you would still need to trim this to length too.

I mocked everything up out of the car, and even though I believe I could have bolted everything together and still had the clearance required, I put a small recess in the face of the pilot bushing to give a little extra depth for input shaft clearance to keep it from being pinned into the back of the crank.

Pictures Attached.

The last couple pictures show the relief I put into the pilot bushing to make sure it was not binding the input shaft on the back of the crank.









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handsofstone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-August-2021 at 11:55AM
     Is that a steel bell? Great info by the way. I found some pics earlier. The throwout bearing is the hydraulic setup.  Less issues wiith the exhaust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-August-2021 at 11:58AM
   And this one on fleabay which is steel from the looks of the rust on it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2021 at 9:00AM
Are you still thinking on this?  I have thought of doing the manual swap on mine as well.  Probably would be about the same as adding a Gear Vendors but I'd rather row my gears.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-September-2021 at 12:51PM
  I have a line on a 351CJ built by a performance shop years ago.  If the engine in the donor is original block, I may just use it. The CJ is a long block with oil pan and valve covers on it. He rotates the engines every year so it is free. I am gonna run my scope in it to see if the performance goodies are there. He told me to disassemble it if I want to. Not going there but will definitely go over it in detail.  I have a 351 running engine in the bed of my truck that a few people want. Cash is king and first one with the money gets it. 

  He has $4,200 in receipts and I may get it for $1,500. Will know soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-September-2021 at 1:49AM
   I sold my running 351C to a guy near me. He is going to go with an automatic. He asked if I could help him build it with all the  brand new parts he has collected over the years.  It is going into a ride from the 20s. Has a sbc but wants to swap the power plant. So he offered me a Lakewood flywheel (50lbs.) for a 351C. Have look at numbers and find out if it will work on my 400.
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