76 2bl Carburetor |
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Posted: 29-September-2022 at 7:06AM |
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Seems I've got a defective carburetor. 351M 2150 carb.. Anyone have a carb that works and won't send me into the poor house? New timing chain, distributor, plug wires, plugs, non ethenol fuel, excellent compression... When I open the throttle for climbing a hill, there's nothing there.. Slightly rough idle and no carbon build up.. Bore camera confirm clean pistons..
I need some guidance on this one.. Very confusing.. |
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78FordLtd2
Member Joined: 19-April-2021 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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If you suspect a problem with the carb, I'd look at what you have first by putting a carb kit in it before looking for a new rebuilt carb. The 2150 is a pretty simple carb and is very easily rebuildable. A kit is not expensive at all. A new carb is quite a bit more expensive and many come from overseas now and you might not want that.
Hope that helps
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Thanks for the reply.. You must have been reading my mind.. I did just rebuild the carb and also installed new base plate gaskets.. Sprayed brake clean all around and did not find any vacuum leaks.. Took it out for a test drive and still.......no power.. Frustrating.
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fordpower
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2010 Location: willseyville,ny Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Could it be a tired motor. Had a 350 chev once the same thing ran great on the flat. no power on hills. Cam was worn out.
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lynchster
Senior Member Joined: 07-January-2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 2150 |
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I'd start with checking the timing and compression.
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Chuck
72 Gran Torino Sport 13 Taurus SHO "Mr Pig" |
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78FordLtd2
Member Joined: 19-April-2021 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Still no power? Okay, it might be time to check your compression and see where its at. Run it at full operating temp with the oil cap off and look for excessive blow by. A compression test will give you some indication of the condition of the motor. That would be my next step.
Also check your timing chain. You may have skipped a tooth or have excessive slop. |
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Here's the cold compression test results.. Have not been able to test it hot yet.. #1 - 145 #2 - 150 #3 - 150 #4 - 160 #5 - 145 #6 - 140 #7 - 140 #8 - 145
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Inkara1
Senior Member Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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Is the throttle able to open all the way?
Is there something clogging up the exhaust or one side of the intake? Maybe turn the engine over with the valve covers off and see if the rocker arms move enough to indicate that the valves are opening enough? To rule out collapsed lifters or a worn cam.
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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78FordLtd2
Member Joined: 19-April-2021 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Those numbers look good to me. Anything over 135 is good and the difference between the highest reading from the lowest is decent. Anything more than 20% difference is something to take note of and would indicate a problem, ie. leaking rings or valves.
Have you tested your fuel pump? Fuel pressure could be weak or unable to provide adequate fuel under load. Restricted exhaust? If it still has cats on it, one or both could be plugged or partially plugged. Another compression test (warm engine) with a drop of oil in the cylinders (wet) and the throttle open should give you higher and more balanced readings but overall, I'd say you're pretty good. Try it just to be sure. A 351M doesn't have a lot of compression to befin with and it only puts out 150-ish horsepower but they do have good torque. Going up hills shouldn't be that much of a problem. It still could be the cam though. How many miles are on it? I'd keep looking at fuel, spark/distributor, timing and exhaust and eliminate the easy stuff before diving right in.
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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check the gaskets and the plate under the carb if you have one. the EGR plates clog and burn through, the gaskets don't last forever either. the bottom gasket under the plate is special, exhaust temp rated!
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72 GT Ute
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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Will it accelerate okay on level ground? Thinking accelerator pump or power valve...
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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check the distributor inner workings under the advance plate for being stuck, the weights get stuck in place on the pivot pins. also check the advance canister for function. i wish i had a nickel for every good carb that's been pulled off
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72 GT Ute
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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I'm getting closer to solving the problem.. Replaced the distributor and carburetor.. No change.. After replacing the timing chain and gears, plugs, wires, coil, distributor, and carb, I came across an interesting bit of information.. The compression seems high and every now and then the starter won't spin the engine over as if the compression is so high, it prevents rotation. The article indicated high carbon buildup in the combustion chamber.. Tell tale signs are rough idle, poor gas mileage, pre-ignition and backfiring.. All of which I am experiencing. I looked down inside 3 cylinders with a bore scope and could only see the tops of the pistons.. They were clean.. However, I was unable to see the valves.. My goal this winter is to pull a head off and see if there is a heavy carbon buildup on the valves. This should be quite a project..
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Steve M.
Senior Member Joined: 08-June-2019 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1740 |
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The 351W in my Gran Torino had similar issues. Once the intake was pulled, it revealed a ton of carbon build-up in the heads. There were other issues as well. Sent the heads to a shop in Clearwater Florida, went with an Edlebrock intake and Holley 600. My car still had the cats on it. Got rid of them too. Big difference! In short, I let the engine breathe.
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Steve M.
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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You can put the borescope down the intake ports and see the tops of the intake valves. I use am endoscope that is 15' long and thin enough to use on a rifle barrel. It has an app for the phone.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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check timing, check advance, sounds like a plugged cat or if a muffler got plugged?? if you think carbon is an issue i can tell you a simple trick that will clean it out!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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The 351M will benefit greatly from two areas: breathing and oil passages.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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In all seriousness, the Timing set is retarded on the 351M. An earlier set for 351C/400 pre 72 or so without the 4 degrees or so of retard built in will help. And get rid of the "Nylon/Fiber" timing gear. They come apart and plug the oil pump and block oil passages. Replacing the 2-piece "Press-On" valves with real 1-pieice Valves is a good investment.
Lots of thoughts out there for fixing the oiling system, but the 351M is the "360 FE" of the 335 engine family (Destroked 390 vs. destroked 400). Edelbrock used to make a 4BBl. intake for the 351M/400.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Hahahaha
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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hogfiddles
Senior Member Joined: 19-September-2016 Location: Central NY Status: Online Points: 1490 |
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Nice edit :)
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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I finally pulled the intake manifold and the valves are clean.. Very small amount of the usual carbon buildup. I'm recovering from heart surgery, so I will pull the heads as soon as I'm able.. My engine hoist will not reach over that long Elite hood.. LOL
I will post pictures of the valves..
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qcode72
Member Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
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I wood put a vacum gage on it to check vac advance and the vac goes to zero when warmed up exhaust mite be clogged.
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Clogged converters may also be an issue.. The exhaust does not smell like a car with working converters.. My next project will be to pull them down and have a look.. I got the gaskets already.. I will also make that vacuum check.. Interesting.
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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The passenger side converter was blocked and the driver side converter was semi blocked.. Cleaned both. Still have a lack of power but not as bad.. I'm using combustion chamber cleaner in the fuel and non ethanol gas while driving.. It seems the engine is slowly (very slowly) beginning to run more like it should.. I really don't want to pull the heads right now, so it's possible the chemical clean will do some good..
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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why not a dedicated converter cleaning product?
https://www.amazon.com/Cataclean-120007-Complete-Exhaust-Milliliter/dp/B002BVXM92 |
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72 GT Ute
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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There are inexpensive endoscopes that run on a smartphone app. You can easily snake it into the cylinders with the throttle plates held wide open. Intake only but it shows a lot. Any scored cylinders or carbon buildup are easily seen with the camera. You can take video and then screenshot select segments for a better look.
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72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5802 |
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Back when I worked in the shop, we used GM Top Engine cleaner on carboned up engines. It worked really well but is smokes like a crazy afterwards. It's also a good idea to change your oil afterwards. If the cats are plugged, you could replace them with a universal aftermarket type. |
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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piper62j
Member Joined: 21-July-2018 Location: 34613 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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I was a GMC, Pontiac and Olds service manager during the early 70s and completely forgot about about that top engine cleaner.. My mechanics used it constantly along with a foaming carburetor cleaner.. They would spray it in the throat of the carb, let it sit until the foam dissipated and it actually cleaned the throat, choke plate and throttle plates down to bare metal... Where is all that stuff today??? That top cylinder cleaner is very expensive now..
Thanks 72FordGTS for the awakening..
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3941 |
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I would imagine California put an end to those types of products for health reasons. Lol
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