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8.8" or 9"

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Don V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 8.8" or 9"
    Posted: 15-September-2017 at 3:18AM
I've been working on putting the coyote into the truck I picked up and I'm interested in any opinions anyone might have on the aesthetic or perceptive value of swapping the OEM 8.8" rear end for a 9"? As a practical matter I don't think it will make any difference and will involve a lot of work but the affinity for the 9" is undeniable. What would be the payoff, if any?
 
Also, does anyone use the craigslist listings from other areas? There was recently a listing here in Michigan for an OEM Torino, cast aluminum hood scoop. It was gone within a day but is this something you guys want passed along?
 
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-September-2017 at 5:41AM
I cooked the clutch twice in my factory 9" posi running slicks at the drag strip.
Drag racing caused stress cracks too that would have ended in a major failure.  
I finally stepped up to the plate and bought a 9" 35 Spline Detroit Locker, Aluminum Dropout, Yukon Ring & Pinion and Custom Race Axles.
If your going to buy everything aftermarket anyway, 9" is the way to go for sure.   

This is the 9" I bought:

https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/DiffDetails.aspx?DiffID=173&SearchMode=Diff&TypeID=4
   


Edited by TorinoMan - 18-September-2017 at 5:52AM
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Don V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-September-2017 at 3:42PM
Torinoman,
 
Thanks for the response. Could not agree with you more about the 9" not being infallible. Unlike you though I will not be using an 8.8" or 9" for performance competition. I'm putting a Coyote and Tremec transmission bought for a 76' Montego into a F150. What happened with the Montego was out of my control. My question is about the perception of a 9" compared to the 8.8". For a custom build does the 9" add a value to justify the time involved? The cost would be minimal. As a practical matter it doesn't but what I'm doing with this pickup isn't practical.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-September-2017 at 4:33PM
There's a ton of aftermarket support for the 8.8, and there's really no reason to swap one out for a 9". 

Weld the tubes to the housing, and run an aluminum rear cover with the built in girdle. Everything else is the same as upgrading any rear... upgraded axles, diff, etc. Factory 31 spine 8.8s are pretty strong to being with.
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-September-2017 at 5:17PM
ok, now i'm curious..,. what are you doing with the f150 that isn't practical???
JOHN
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Don V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-September-2017 at 7:27PM
Originally posted by Power Surge Power Surge wrote:

There's a ton of aftermarket support for the 8.8, and there's really no reason to swap one out for a 9". 

Weld the tubes to the housing, and run an aluminum rear cover with the built in girdle. Everything else is the same as upgrading any rear... upgraded axles, diff, etc. Factory 31 spine 8.8s are pretty strong to being with.
 
Power Surge, My thoughts were in line with yours the first time someone suggested the 9". After the 3rd or 4th person suggested the 9" maybe there is something to this which is why I started soliciting opinions. I'm beginning to think that most people wouldn't think about 8.8 or 9" except for the people that would bring it up. I think I'll stick with the 8.8" and if needed I can always change it in the future.
 
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

ok, now i'm curious..,. what are you doing with the f150 that isn't practical???
 
There's nothing about an 18 year old, not particularly desirable truck to justify the time, money or plans going into or for it. The Montego is in limbo because my daughter and former son in law are idiots and started fighting over custody. Both are using the car as a tool\weapon against each other. What was not long ago a big, heavy safe tank has become a lot of other things as needed. The only thing that justifies what is going into the truck is my granddaughter and I are still working on something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2017 at 1:00AM
So your truck is a 97 to 04 body style then? If that's the case there already is a bolt in bigger rear end. The 9.75 in rear was an option for that truck and also came standard in the Gen 2 Lightning I still don't think you'll need to swap out that 8.8 but if you do the 9.75 is a bolt in.
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
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73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2017 at 9:16AM
Power Surge,

Yes, it's a tenth generation, RWD base model truck with the 4.2L, 6 cylinder. It belonged to friend I had let work on it here but he ran into a lot of problems and couldn't get the finished. I gave him a deadline to finish and he offered it to me so I took it.

I considered the 9.75" because it would be a fairly simple swap if I found complete axle at a local yard. The 9.75 offers a lot options to change out the current 5 lug wheels. Going to 6 or 8 lugs is easier to find with the 9.75" than it is with the 8.8". The 8.8" is sought after and they don't last long when they show up. The yards told me people are after them mostly because they're used with larger tires than the standard 16" like I have.

As I said though I'm fine with the 8.8 currently in the truck. The interest in the 9" is about perception and the affinity a lot people have for it. "If" we are able to follow through with all the plans we've put together it will be a show truck and not a practical daily driver. It's "if" because of what is going on with my granddaughters parents.

I see you are doing a Coyote swap also. How are you dealing with the electronics?

Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2017 at 11:54AM
9" eats more power, and in factory form is only marginally stronger than an 8.8".
9" is easier to do quick ratio changes with, just load a couple centersections with different gear sets and swap as desired.
8.8' has C-clips, 9" does not.


Edited by Big Bird - 19-September-2017 at 11:55AM
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2017 at 12:10PM
Originally posted by Don V. Don V. wrote:



I see you are doing a Coyote swap also. How are you dealing with the electronics?

Don

I was a custom dyno tuner and Ford performance specialist for almost 15 years, so I'll be doing all that stuff, including the tuning, myself. 
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TorinoMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-September-2017 at 1:39PM
The key reason to switch to a Ford 9" would be the nostalgia.
The famous 64 Ford ThunderBolt had a 9" behind that wild 427. 
The 9" became even more popular because of NASCAR.
The Ford 9" was the rearend of choice for most Hot Rod builders. 
It was the rear that matched the strength of the Chevy 12 Bolt.
It gave Ford owners something to brag about.
 
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0001-1964-ford-thunderbolt/



  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-September-2017 at 11:24PM
Thank you for all the information. I still haven't made a decision about which way to go. TorinoMan, your last is exactly what I've been hearing and it's been mostly coming from the older guys from the street rod builders. Definitely a gang that's waxing nostalgia because the pre-WW2 cars they're use to working on are hard to find. They're now rebuilding cars that have already been done or they're building with all new parts from the frame up. But these are the guys that are now judging builds. The politics of building to appeal.

Power Surge, If you don't mind I'd like to PM you about protocol compatibility. When I was involved with rally cars I used custom ECU's usually from ETAS or I used ETAS's INCA System which is used for accessing multiple ECU's (manufacturers) operating under different protocols and translating everything to their own protocols.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russosborne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-September-2017 at 7:52PM
In my opinion the key reason to switch to a 9inch rear end is that it is flat out the better rear.
Ford went backwards and sideways with the 8.8.

But in your situation staying with the 8.8 probably would be better from what I am reading here.

Me, given a choice I would always choose the 9 inch. But that is just me.

Russ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-September-2017 at 8:03AM
Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

In my opinion the key reason to switch to a 9inch rear end is that it is flat out the better rear.
Ford went backwards and sideways with the 8.8.

But in your situation staying with the 8.8 probably would be better from what I am reading here.

Me, given a choice I would always choose the 9 inch. But that is just me.

Russ


Russ, Your determined preference is exactly what brought the question up. I think there are a lot of people that share your feelings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-September-2017 at 10:49AM
The 9" Ford rear is definitely an iconic rear end. It's key selling point is it's third bearing that supports the nose of the pinion gear. 

Pros of the 9"

Very strong three bearing pinion support. 

Axles held in by external bearing plates. 

Ring and pinion can be setup on the workbench as the entire third member can be removed from the housing. 

Vast aftermarket parts support. 

Cons of the 9"

Stock axles have no drain. You must remove the third member to service the fluid (or have access to a rear end flush machine that goes through the fill hole). 

Removing/replacing the third member in your driveway is not anywhere near as easy or convenient as it sounds. That sucker is HEAVY. 

More parasitic loss (if that happens to be a concern).

No factory rear disc set ups (except late 70s Versaile which are hard to find now).

Pros of the 8.8

Very strong units.

Tons of factory Traction Lok diffs out there.

Many different versions of 8.8 to choose from, ensuring finding one that fits your application well. 8.8s came solid axle, IRS, 28 spline, 31 spline, leaf spring, coil spring, rear disc, and many different widths. 

Huge aftermarket support, as this has been Ford's performance rear end for over 30 YEARS now. 

Easy to service in your driveway with it's removable rear cover. 

Cons of the 8.8

Axles retained with C-clips (although for racing applications C clip eliminators are available)

Ring and pinion has to be setup in the housing as opposed to on the workbench. 
Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ
75 Cougar XR7
73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress
Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-September-2017 at 11:04AM
Many Mark IV, most Mark V have rear discs, and it was an option on Marquis and Town cars as well.
Sal isn't kidding about the weight of the 3rd member, and even on housings with an added drain plug, it's gonna look like the Exxon Valdez ran aground in your driveway.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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