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Alternatives to Ethanol-Free Fuel |
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torinomike650 
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Joined: 03-March-2019 Location: Palo Alto, CA Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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 Topic: Alternatives to Ethanol-Free FuelPosted: 30-April-2020 at 11:38AM |
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I have been advised by several folks to only use ethanol-free fuel in my Torino. The problem is - I live in SF Bay Area and ethanol-free gas stations are nowhere to be found. So I would like to find an alternative to having to drive a minimum of two hours to find an ethanol-free gas station.
I have been doing online research to find if there are any additives available online to add when I fill up at any normal gas station. Does anyone have any strong recommendations for fuel stabilizers or other additives to prevent deposits and other damage to the fuel system and engine?
I have found HEET and Iso-HEET water removers here -https://www.goldeagle.com/brands/heet/ Anyone have any experience using these? Would love to know everyone's thoughts and recommendations, with the exception of moving to another state  Edited by torinomike650 - 30-April-2020 at 11:43AM |
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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gpd294
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Joined: 18-September-2008 Location: Dallas, Texas Status: Offline Points: 2147 |
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 12:28PM |
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I've used the Sta-bil from Gold Eagle products when I don't drive the wagon as often and have never had an issue.
Hope this helps!
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Carlos....1975 Gran Torino Squire Station Wagon restored to look like a 1973 Torino Station
Wagon my Dad bought new from McAnary Ford on June 6, 1973 in Gary,Indiana |
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72FordGTS
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GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 1:20PM |
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I am not aware of any additives, other than a fuel stabilizer, that you can use to help with ethanol. Fuel stabilizer can be used with E10 or straight gas though, and I use fuel stabilizer in my Torino over the winter with straight gas. The main thing is to ensure your fuel system has ethanol compatible components. So make sure you rubber hoses are changed to the newer stuff and you can also get ethanol friendly carb parts. In your fuel system is converted to ethanol friendly components, your shouldn't have any problems.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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torinomike650
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 2:48PM |
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I have new Gates hoses/tubing and new Edelbrock 1406 carb (https://www.edelbrock.com/performer-series-600-cfm-carburetor-with-electric-choke-in-satin-non-egr-1406.html)
Not sure if those are ethanol friendly? Is it safe to just use Sta-bil with every fill-up and not have to worry about changing a bunch of the carb parts or any of the new Gates hoses/tubing that I've already installed?
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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Rockatansky
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Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 5798 |
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 3:48PM |
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Edelbrock 1406 is almost guaranteed to be a problem with ethanol blended fuel, 1406 is the version that is calibrated leaner out of the box and E fuel will more than double down on that, plan on getting yourself the calibration kit and kicking it up a couple notches richer. the kit comes with easy instructions to follow is your new Gates hose PTFE lined (PolyTetraFluoroEthylene) ? and then there's this, " There are a few reasons why some people believe the "Carter AFB/Edelbrock carburetors suck" line. First of all many people choose the wrong version they choose the carburetors that are 50 state legal and expect them to run well in a performance application. Originally they were calibrated about 5% leaner than the performance version across the board. That was fine back in the 80's when street gasolines didn't contain significant ethanol but now that it does the carburetor is about another 4% or so leaner and won't run well at all. They are smaller than a Holley carburetor with the same cfm rating. While they call it a 600 or 625 its really smaller. I don't remember how much but I think its about 10%. Carter didn't rate their 4 barrels at 1.5 inches of depression it was something higher. The 600 is the best model and the other ones are screwed up. The 750 has a poor venturi shape and the 500 has a goofy big booster that doesn't work well. They also had some production problems where the boosters were not machined correctly. I had one of those on the dyno one time and on a 500 horsepower big Chrysler it was down about 60 horsepower from my 950HP. I think it also dropped about 75 lbs/ft torque. It was too lean no mater what I did. I even took the jets out and made a pull. Still too lean. " - Dave McLain ======================== " Funny you should mention that Dave. We had a customer when I was still
at the dyno shop that brought in a short wheel base Chevy truck with a
mild 400 in it that had a dual plane and a 750 Edelbrock carb on it. He
wanted it dynoed to get the carb and timing optimized. First pull that
thing was scary lean. He had a "jet" kit for it (I'm thinking they were
more of a metering rod than a jet, but it was a long time ago and I cant
remember minute details anymore), so we fattened it up. Still way lean.
Fattened it up again. Still way lean. Put the biggest jets in it the
kit came with and it never moved the AF ratio. We actually took a break
and got online to try and figure out if we were doing something wrong.
It just never responded to any fueling changes the way we expected it
too. " - Kid Vishus ======================== " That's interesting. I also thought that it might have been built using the wrong needle valves in the carburetor who knows.
Another time I had a 289 Ford that I had built for a customer with a '65 Mustang. The engine came in with a brand new Edelbrock 600 with electric choke etc. I had it on the engine when I started it up on the dyno to break in the cam. I like to run the engine for at least an hour under about a 20 horsepower load at 2800rpm. The engine started right up and I ballparked the timing. With it just sitting there running along like it was driving down the highway it sounded good. But while I was messing around I found that I could take my hand and very lightly choke the carburetor and this would make the engine instantly pick up about 8lbs/ft torque. Then when I'd take my hand away you could hear the tone of the engine change and almost get to the point of surging. It was noticeable after hearing it really run properly. I got the calibration straightened out and the engine ran great making 275 horsepower and the customer was pleased. " - Dave McLain Edited by Rockatansky - 30-April-2020 at 3:57PM |
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72 GT Ute
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torinomike650
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Joined: 03-March-2019 Location: Palo Alto, CA Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 4:51PM |
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thanks for the info. I'll have to check with the shop that did the build and also performed the break-in procedure, they picked out the carb based on my preferences. I would have preferred Edelbrock 1906, which is in their AVS2 line, but they said that the 650 CFM was too rich for the fairly stock 351W I have.
I'll also have to check with another shop that hooked up the lines and hoses.
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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californiajohnny
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Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14467 |
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 8:32PM |
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i think the main issues about what you may have been told could be with storage of the ethanol fuel when not driving it as it tends to draw moisture and rusts the tank! i've noticed that with my vehicles i'm thinking about putting in some non-ethanol gas at the end of summer for storage
 stabil seems to work good to keep the gas from weakening (volatility) during storage, if your just burning it through like on a road trip the ethanol gas should be ok as it will be used up and most is 10% ethanol to 90 % gas. i read somewhere years ago once you get over 22% ethanol then you need to change fuel components like hoses and re-jetting and so on... |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 30-April-2020 at 10:08PM |
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cfm has nothing to do with Air Fuel Ratio, rich or lean except in extreme circumstances, any size carb is calibrated to provide a suitable AFR a 650 on a 351 is not an extreme circumstance by any means and would have been a great choice
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72 GT Ute
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torinomike650
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Posted: 01-May-2020 at 3:52AM |
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Thanks for the info Johnny! Is it true what I'm finding online that it's safe enough to go with anything higher than 91 octane, since anything lower is unleaded? If that's the case, there are a few stations near me that carry 100 octane - any advice or strong recommendations for or against using 93-100 octane?
Max - I never knew that there was no correlation between CFM and air/fuel ratio! But then again, I'm a younger guy and grew up knowing very little about carbs in general 😜 so I appreciate the advice! I'll probably switch over to the AVS2 carb when the warranty on this engine is done, or further down the road.
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 01-May-2020 at 2:11PM |
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higher octane shouldn't hurt anything better for more timing and higher compression motors
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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hogfiddles
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Posted: 01-May-2020 at 2:36PM |
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I use seafoam for my bikes and sleds. They always start right after sitting for the whole off-seasons.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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torinomike650
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Posted: 01-May-2020 at 3:23PM |
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Is higher than 91 octane more likely to have 10% or less ethanol? It seems a lot of posts I'm reading where people ask where to find ethanol-free fuel, the subject of 93+ octane comes up almost immediately. So I'm just trying to confirm if (more or less)... 93+ octane = lower percentage of ethanol... ?
Maybe those posts are missing some details, or I am. I'm hesitant to believe everything I read online 😉 so I'm inquiring of y'all for your expertise!
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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californiajohnny
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Posted: 01-May-2020 at 3:52PM |
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idk should be the same amount? but could vary from station to station? it should be posted on the pump as required by law
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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72FordGTS
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Posted: 02-May-2020 at 12:44AM |
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The amount of Ethonal in your fuel will be area dependent. Where I live all 87 octane has to be E10 by law. However, premium gas can have 0% ethanol. Not all stations sell 100% gasoline premium fuel, but all Shell stations do along with some other fuel brands. Do your some research for your area. You can try contacting the corporate email for the gas companies and see what they sell in your area.
As for the fuel stabilizer, all that does is keep the fuel in your tank fresh. So unless your car is sitting all the time for very long periods, I don't see the need to add it in with every fill up. E10 will separate and absorb moisture with time but the stabilizer seems to help. You can get stabilizers specifically for fuel with ethanol and the marine grade ones have extra additives for moisture. Bottom line is you should be fine with ethanol if that's all is that is available. Just make sure all of your soft fuel components have been upgraded to handle ethanol. As Rock mentions above too, you may need to adjust the carb to run on it properly. Generally you need a richer fuel mixture with ethanol over gas. So if you adjust for this, it should run fine.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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hogfiddles
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Posted: 02-May-2020 at 2:03AM |
Exactly:) I put a capful in my tank every few fill-ups, or when I feel like it, or if I’ve ridden in any rain, and then a little extra at the end of the riding season when I fill it up for the off season.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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torinomike650
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Posted: 02-May-2020 at 6:49AM |
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Wow, thanks Vince! All that info is super helpful! I have researched several ethanol fuel stabilizers, the top three I've found (in order of highest rated reviews) are:
Sta-Bil 360 Protection Ethanol Treatment & Stabilizer - https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-protection/ Lucas Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers - https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/safeguard-ethanol-fuel-conditioner-with-stabilizers Sta-Bil Storage is what most people on this post seem to use, so I'm inclined to go with their 360 ethanol treatment. But curious to see if anyone has had good experience with any of those, and also posting for anyone else having the same problem of locating ethanol-free fuel! Chances are it's likely only me and other California residents 😜😂 And I will also be emailing corporate oil companies regarding what fuel is available in my area, guess I've never had to worry about this in 15 years of driving bc I've only driven 90's and newer fuel injected cars!
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Mike
1974 Ford Gran Torino |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 02-May-2020 at 7:21AM |
AFR is AFR, it has to be about the same for any size engine with minor difference depending upon performance or economy tune. a 460 race engine and a 1.8 race 4 pop will both use about the same AFR for best power, and ditto if they're both tuned for economy. as i said above only in extreme circumstances will carb size affect AFR, like if you swapped the carbs on those 2 engines. a too small carb will deliver a rich AFR because the large engine will pull a very strong signal to the metering system and versa a too big carb on a small engine will deliver a lean mixture due to lack of metering signal. custom jetting can help but may still not be spot on at some point in the rpm band. Eddy 650 on a 351 is text book fine as far as carb size, it should deliver decent AFR right out of the box. Edited by Rockatansky - 02-May-2020 at 7:53AM |
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72FordGTS
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Posted: 02-May-2020 at 11:18AM |
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I have used the Sta-Bil 360 for my in E10 and been no issues even when the gas is almost a year old. I don't use that gas in my Torino though, just my power equipment and outboard motor. No issues, but I also drain the carbs on anything that goes into storage.
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Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
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72FordGTS wrote: