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back pressure,needed or not |
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Rockatansky 
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Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 5799 |
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 Posted: 26-July-2017 at 5:40AM |
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to the original ? those old cats are  to any kind of performance / efficiency, today we have high flow cats that even allow a really decent exhaust note through them. a full system to the back bumper w/o some type of muffler or resonator might be too loud for your taste |
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72 GT Ute
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Big Bird
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 5:44AM |
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My cats are still in place, but the insides "fell out" probably 14-16 years ago.
I can't imagine having a big expansion chamber at the start of the exhaust is good for exhaust velocity or flow. However, they were still looking for converters on 1979 cars when I put it together.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Don V.
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 6:34AM |
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Rockatansky,
If I gave anyone the impression that removing anything to do with emissions was a good idea or advisable I'm not. As far as the quote of mine you used, it was a response to comments from Smog that were about mounting engines which was part of his trashing of engineers. It had nothing to do with emissions. Mr. Smog, I never said using zoomies will destroy an engine. The fact that zoomies "CAN" destroy heads or engines is not new or groundbreaking information. They have a long, documented history starting with burning valves. I also don't think zoomies shortening engine life is new or groundbreaking information. I don't equate shortening engine life with destroying an engine because there are numerous engine modifications that will shorten engine life. A common one I see is building a high performance, tight tolerance engine for the street. Tight tolerance engines are not for stop and go traffic and ideally they require a start up routine to avoid cold starts. Heck, cold starts aren't good for any engine let alone tight, or close tolerance engines. My advice was that zoomies are not for the average garage mechanic. Just properly figuring optimum tip angle involves some intensive math. Most just weld up their idea of cool and that's not a good idea. Big Bird's comment raises a good point. There are a lot of people with more money than sense so why aren't they running 8" exhaust pipe or 3" x 12" tube? That would sure mitigate any exhaust back pressure issues.
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MrSmog
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 7:27AM |
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I know guys who have had those open zoomie headers on their street rods goin on 20+ years, still the same engine, still runnin good. Go tell them they are killin their heads and see what kind of response you get. I'm sure they lead to more wear then a proper exhaust system, but how much so probably has way too many variables to give an exact number. The OP to this thread has no intention of puttin those goofy headers on his car, so it's really just a bunch of hot air gettin blown around for nothin, my own included.
as far as trashin engineers, It wasn't really meant that way, just sayin even they do some things that seem questionable to us common people. I'm sure they are all smart folks, but sometimes you can over think things way too much and overlook simple solutions or alternatives. I have done a lot of oddball things in regards to boats, cars and trucks over the years. Not so much because I want to be a pioneer or anything, but more out of necessity or the hot rodder in me. Almost always I was met with the nay sayers who would spout off all this technical mumbo jumbo of why it wouldn't work, or would implode unexpectedly because it was never designed that way. So far, so good by usin good ole common sense and my own "backyard engineerin". If you felt I personally insulted you in any way, I apologize. If I can make it up to the pure stock drags this year in Mich, I'll buy you lunch and tell you a few lawyer jokes.  |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 11:31AM |
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we're all fine as far as i know, my comment wasn't aimed at anybody in particular but as i said I'm pretty sure the blanket 'rip that crap off' advice does come out quite frequently and we need to be careful. i should've went on further as i was thinking at the moment that it's easy enough to specify usage being 'for off road use' or 'educational purposes' that there's no reason to risk attracting unwanted attention.
for that matter they already are going outside intended use of statute and threatening off road vehicles sheesh and don't get me started on engineers LOL they are a special bunch. if the part number doesn't match exactly it won't work. long story short there was a guy at work that insisted the tube in a radiator is called a jacket water because that's what the print called it, 'jacket, water' jacket water my 
i can imagine a Steve Austin 3:16 beer over the head? who said zoomies? i still have the set i had on my 72  |
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fordpower
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 12:49PM |
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rock you sort of ans my org question. My garage said my cats are plugged causing my problems.He said they are to hot at intake and to cold at exhaust so should I do away with and go with mufflers. |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 1:42PM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Don V.
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 2:07PM |
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How do you get a zoomie that's not really a zoomie? You buy a header from a company that puts the word zoomie on some header lines and buyers can say they have zoomies.
Rock, the dragster you posted is an example of zoomies. One tuned straight pipe per cylinder pointing down and then up. They weren't about looks or sound. They were\are functional. They create a lot of down force that helps counteract both torque twist and front end lift. Top fuelers today have so much power zoomies are factored in to suspension and chassis design. This is information that can be found on the internet and not from anyone referring to jacket water.  Are pipes that don't turn up zoomies? According to the old timers no but they became popular when zoomies made it to the street where the upturn wasn't appreciated by the cars to your right and left. FWIW and again from the old timers, the term zoomie was slang in the nuke industry for the unseen energy emitted from radioactive materials. Hot rodders co-opted the term. zoomies: Put a collector on the end of straight pipes and you've got a header which is not a zoomie. I'm not interested with arguing this with anyone but when I refer to a zoomie I'm talking about a single, stand alone straight pipe per cylinder. Smog, I appreciate the clarification. Ford power, sorry about your post getting hijacked but it seems your answer is in here. My 2 cents, go for it. If you need to go back to using mufflers there's nothing in your plan to prevent you from adding them if there turns out to be a reason to. The effect a muffler has on emissions is minimal.
Edited by Don V. - 26-July-2017 at 2:11PM |
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Don V.
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 2:17PM |
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"Misuse of laws/expansion beyond mandate should be a criminal offense, punishable by a swift kick in the crotch on Primetime national TV, administered by the kicker from the previous year's Super Bowl champions.
 "Is this an updated version of "Get off my lawn," "Grumpy old man," or both?
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MrSmog
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 2:22PM |
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ford power, if your new cats don't have the sound you like, try a set of glasspacks after the cats. This is my cheap hi-po exhaust on anything I have with cats, the cats take enough starch out of the exhaust note that the glasspacks aren't cackly and obnoxious, has a nice deep mellow sound that really comes alive when ya tromp on it.
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 26-July-2017 at 6:07PM |
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still can't AFAIK? but yeah hot in / cold out = ================ street zoomies ... the print says zoomie, remote mount w/extension Hahaha
Y'all ain't got no zoomies? local cruise night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vebTpEQbMeo Edited by Rockatansky - 26-July-2017 at 6:08PM |
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Don V.
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 1:33AM |
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I remember in the early days of CATS leaded gas was still available next to the unleaded. A lot of people would save the extra 2 or 3 cents more that unleaded cost and put leaded gas in their CAT vehicles. It wasn't long before those loose platinum coated beads turned into a solid brick clogging the exhaust. Rock, I'm not sure what you're getting at with, "The print says. . .," but your link is defines what I grew up understanding what zoomies are. If your local cruise night is the Holly Reunion fwiw I'm impressed. Pretty short cruise though isn't it?
Edited by Don V. - 27-July-2017 at 12:38PM |
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fordpower
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 1:58AM |
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OK so cost wise decided replace cats. found two that are sappose to be direct fit Walker or magnaflow .
can't use because ny now requires calf. specs. |
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Don V.
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 2:22AM |
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Is NY a state that requires inspections and the window sticker from passing the inspection? If so, your requirements are written for you. You may have to put mufflers on to be legal.
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fordpower
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 3:58AM |
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yes and no only needs to pass safety because of age. Yet legal garage can not put on cats not Cal certified and I can not weld that good. Would have to find someone in Pa. |
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 5:54AM |
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does your emission tag state California Emissions? only years specified (skip 1995 for some reason) and cars equipped with CA emissions i'd go talk to someone else before you get into a twister next inspection ========================== so what is your set-up? you use the plural 'cats' as in multiple so i'll assume 2, just down pipes off cast iron manifolds to factory cats ... anything after the cats? and more importantly, what caused them to fail? is the engine using oil recently? what year is it, what carb/injector/throttle body set-up? any recent changes on the top end fuel delivery?
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fordpower
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 7:03AM |
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Yes 15 yrs ago they just came off of cats to duels with what they called an h pipe. Sound was nice so did no mufflers. NY now requires cal cats. When I tried to order ones from on line state not adv in NY or cal? These are org.to car.Will probably just go with mufflers depending on cost.
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Big Bird
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 9:20AM |
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For 1979, no requirement for Cali Cats, that's only for years NYS required Cali emissions.
Cats are not checked in most of NY, safety only, no emissions inspection for pre-1984. Shops can't pull off WORKING cats, but under no obligation to replace a defective cat. So, for instance, your entire exhaust were to fall (off for some strange, inexplicable reason). You don't need to replace the cats, and it doesn't need to meet Commiefornia emissions, or any emissions really.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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Big Bird
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 9:32AM |
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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stanman
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 10:26AM |
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If your cats were to fall off and something, say a steel bar, found its' way inside them and knocked all the guts out would that be your fault.? Pretty sure not...
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Big Bird
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 10:50AM |
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Say the Y pipe or H pipe came loose and drug-crazed vandals were to poke a bar thru the catalyst and crumble it, knock out all the guts and stole them....
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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stanman
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 12:30PM |
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Exactly! You're only human! How could you forsee or prevent that? You couldn't!
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Don V.
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 12:43PM |
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Can't argue with that. First impression was something a little more personal though.
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Don V.
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 12:47PM |
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It's been a long time since this was a topic. At some point they learned it was quicker and quieter to just take the whole car.
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Don V.
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 12:50PM |
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Mufflers should be less then CATS or even a CAT.
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Rockatansky
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 2:08PM |
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advance auto $70 ea & 20% off, actually not too bad. I've spent more on mufflers
 the discount for the 'farm use' iron pipe mishap doesn't look bad either
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Don V.
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Posted: 27-July-2017 at 2:22PM |
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No doubt but that same discount import company probably has $25 mufflers to go with their $70 dollar CAT. Nothing wrong with either.
Edited by Don V. - 27-July-2017 at 2:23PM |
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fordpower
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Posted: 22-August-2017 at 10:16AM |
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Well garage said try some of that cat cleaner. Went on a little cruse Sunday. Drove to Norwich car museum Put some of that stuff in and drove home 125 mi over all. Well two things I noticed. It is running hotter and sounds louder. Going to have a temp check and try another can of crap.
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fordpower wrote: