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C6 to T5 swap
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rfox View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17-July-2024 at 11:43AM
hello all, i have a buddy that is going to rebuild a T5 trans for me and i'd like to swap my auto C6 out for it.

it will be mated to a slightly built 351C 4V motor in a 72 sport. i realize its not the beefiest transmission in the world, however a free trans that makes a TKX swap in the future effortless sounds like a nice way to go for now.

i do not have drag slicks, i do not intend on just ripping gears like a mad man, some spirited cruising is about all this will see.

what are some of the parts i'm going to need for this swap, is there any items that are vehicle specific and hard to get or can i source them from other vehicles? 

and also does anyone reccomend a way to strengthen the trans itself in terms of rebuild kits or mods that can help it some.

appreciate the info!
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Realistically, the T5 is meant for a 2800 pound fox body and stock 302's would kill the synchronizers. You can toss a Astro or G-force gears at it, and the T5 will shift like butter, but you're still dealing with a transmission not matched to the vehicle. You are also going to deal with clutch package and bell house issues.

These cars originally came stock with a 14"+ diameter flywheel, and 11" clutch package. You need the heft of the larger flywheel to get these cars moving, at 3700-3800 pounds. 

I only speak from experience in dealing with 4 speed 72-73 Torinos and Montegos.

I'd say trade the T5 for a good used TKO500/600 for the time being, but parts support from Tremec was axed to force people into buying the TKX.

With that said...having a TKX, they are amazing.

Best of luck on your path.
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
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peter.jenerette View Drop Down
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Pedals.
Choices are:
  1. hydraulic pedal that Neal put in his 72, I believe its a Malwood. Project thread: 

    72 Gran Torino Sport: Bring back the Glory days

  2. MDL pedal - bolts to an existing automatic pedal box; some modification to brake pedal required. There is an entire thread on this. (Eliteman did have one for sale.) Can be used with original z-bars, hydraulic, or cable type clutches.
  3. Factory clutch pedal assembly - Almost made of unobtanium, but they are out there. I know of 1 that is currently available.

Tunnel hump:
All floor shift cars have a bolt in tunnel hump. There is the automatic, and the manual versions, the only difference is the manual have a hole for the reverse light wires to pass through.
Gonna need a shifter boot, and ring probably.

Yoke
You will need a yoke for the T5 (or what ever transmission is decided to be put in). This may require some U-Joint research, and possible drive shaft length issues.

Trans mounts
Not sure on the T5, but you may need to get fancy with the trans mounts and or the trans crossmember.

Flywheel, Clutch, pressure plate - (You already know this).

Z-bar/Equalizer bar - should the decision be made to attempt to use original style clutch equipment.

Rear gears 
Depending on the current gearing, you may need to move to at least a 3.50 to take advantage of 5th.

Floor shift column. - 
If currently a column shift, there may be a desire to have a column without the remnants of the PRNDL.

Then you will always have 'discovery' as you proceed and find out there's something else.

Good luck!
Pete Jenerette
1972 Gran Torino (H-Code - 4R70W)
2022 F250 XLT 7.3
2003 Thunderbird
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rfox View Drop Down
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any experience with the gear vendors route?
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TKO600 + 3.25 rear gear, big block. Custom pedal with hydraulic clutch. No critical modifications to anything on the automatic pedal box. AP master cylinder, Tilton release cylinder. Hydraulic is the way to go, no doubt.

Realistically if you aren't making big power/torque, it doesn't matter THAT much how heavy the car is. 300ft/lbs is 300ft/lbs in a go-kart or dump truck. 3.00 or 5.45 final driver ratio... all the transmission sees is the torque in and out. If nothing is slipping then it shouldn't matter. Duty cycle and heat is a different story.

Regardless, a built 351C will have the T5 begging for mercy. Consider something a little more substantial.

Gear vendors always seemed like a half-assed solution to me but if you are ok with the auto, them maybe this a good route. Lots of success stories out there.

TKO is kinda meh... nothing like a modern manual, but still not that bad for the capacity. I'd hope the TKX is better but haven't tried one yet. Would be worth seriously considering.

What about a more powerful engine, keep the c6, and just go way tall on the final drive... like 2.75 or whatever is a step taller than that even?? If you can get 350ft/lbs and 400hp then street tires are going to be close to the limit out of the hole even with the tall gear.

Don't know about bell housing for 351C

Final drive gear is going to be a preference thing and matters what transmission you go with, what cruising speed you plan, where the engine operates the most efficiently. Also, there are only so many options.
-Billy Conturo
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Billy, as someone who had his old TKO500/TR3550 bite the dust (4th gear self clearanced things, plus a lot of internal wear) and went with the TKX due to lack of parts and cost factor, I have no regrets. 

Purevision went the GV route on the big block 460 based stroker/C6 combo. 

Realistically if I am going to mess with things, I like the C6 for simple reliability, but all day long I would rather spring for a Ford 6R80 6 speed and Baumann transmission controller. 
Add a carb with a throttle position switch and then you have a solid combo. Add 370-4.10 gears and honestly the 6 speed automatic will be great. 

Not a cheap option, but neither was the TKX.

BTW, I'm still attempting to be gentle on mine, but after I got through the whole initial heat cycling and 100-150 miles first drive, the TKX shifts buttery smooth no issues up to 6K RPM. 

I have my rev limiter set to around 5900 RPM to protect my valve train and my new combo just rows the gears. Fun stuff.   
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Originally posted by peter.jenerette peter.jenerette wrote:

Pedals.
Choices are:
  1. hydraulic pedal that Neal put in his 72, I believe its a Malwood. Project thread: 

    72 Gran Torino Sport: Bring back the Glory days

  2. MDL pedal - bolts to an existing automatic pedal box; some modification to brake pedal required. There is an entire thread on this. (Eliteman did have one for sale.) Can be used with original z-bars, hydraulic, or cable type clutches.
  3. Factory clutch pedal assembly - Almost made of unobtanium, but they are out there. I know of 1 that is currently available.



I still have the clutch pedal, no takers as of yet. 

I have to say Neal and his conversion was really nice!
Malwood, their hydraulic pedal conversion is pretty awesome. Plus side as the owner of Quicktime Bell houses, Russ knows his stuff. $1100 for the complete kit with throwout bearing isn't cheap, but it's not bottom dollar amazon chinesium parts. 

Side note, someone is reproducing the 72-74 Clutch linkage parts. Around $600 USD for all the mechanical linkage parts. But then header fitment is a real pain with Mechanical linkage. 

You are stuck stock manifolds, or FPA Ford Powertrain Applications for headers that actually fit. 
Or, doing what I did and chop-cut-weld pipe bends to clear the Z bar, steering box and make it fit. Oh, and use a map gas torch to heat up other tubes, to clear the steering Pitman Arm and the Idler Arm castle nuts from hitting primary tubes on the headers. 
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Purevision went the GV route on the big block 460 based stroker/C6 combo. 

I don’t even think the tko600 existed when that car was built, or at least it certainly wasn’t common on big blocks.


I don’t post much anymore and lots has happened since i put my car together but I think I was the only one with a built big block and 5 speed. I didn’t have a lot to go by but I’d certainly go a different route now if I was starting over. My definition of speed, durability, drivability, and quality has changed a lot in the past decade. I’m hoping to get the car back out this summer now that I’m getting settled in the new/old location. I have a feeling I’m gonna get in and think instantly it needs 1000hp tho. Haha. 
-Billy Conturo
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Originally posted by Billy C Billy C wrote:

Originally posted by Eliteman76 Eliteman76 wrote:

Purevision went the GV route on the big block 460 based stroker/C6 combo. 

 My definition of speed, durability, drivability, and quality has changed a lot in the past decade. 

This is reminding me of the fact I am regretting cutting 1 full coil off my Moog 80090 CVPI front coil springs on the recent rebuild. Even my wife said "Man the GTS is sitting really low" LOL
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
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so i was considering this for several reasons, fun factor beating out RPM road noise and MPG, etc.

i have one of those ractchet style shifters and i honestly quite like it. car reacts nicely to it, but more enjoyment from splitting gears would be nice. i do enjoy just cruising around with it as an auto. i havent considered messing with the final gear.

i think part of me would really enjoy swapping it over because i know i'd love to just row gears when i use it. it is afterall not a common occurance (not daily at least). thanks to salt i only get 5 good months a year i could use it here anyway.

i dont wanna change motors because its a numbers matching set. frankly had it not been it wouldve been swapped out many years ago, but thats neither here nor there.
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whats the shape of the pedal and what do you want for it? just curious.
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Originally posted by rfox rfox wrote:

i dont wanna change motors because its a numbers matching set. frankly had it not been it wouldve been swapped out many years ago, but thats neither here nor there.

I see, although I don't necessarily understand the numbers matching motor but not numbers matching transmission thing. I wasn't really suggesting swap it for a different one, just get more power out of what you have. Cam, heads, forged internals... sky is the limit really. 351c is a solid starting point
-Billy Conturo
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The pedal is brand new, never installed. I bought it as soon as Modern Driveline was done with their initial run of them. 

I have it posted up on Facebook Marketplace. Asking $200 for it. 

I would let it go $200 shipped. 

Link to my ad on FB: https://www.facebook.com/share/ogdqbcxFrtnQGdaE/


I paid around $225 shipped, that was at least 5-6 years ago. 

Here is the info on MDL's website:

The good thing is, with a T5, you can use a cable conversion with a little welding, and run the T5 without too much hassle. Call Paul at MDL and he can help. 

They are also doing hydraulic conversions on T5's as far as I am aware. 


That's $225 for the slave kit and works with 79-93 T5's which makes it easy.

You still would need a master cylinder kit, but I'm sure MDL has something, just call them.
I have had excellent luck woking with them over the last 10+ years.

I have seen some fox body master/slave kits around $450-ish, but for a Torino, you need to deal with the linkage from the pedal pivot to the slave cylinder. 

I am by no means a hydraulic expert, but have some experience on Mustang/F series hydraulics. 

Another note, with the 72-74 pedal, it's the ideal ratio for manual transmissions according to MDL.

The pedal is relatively easy to install. Do not need to remove the pedal support from the car.

Main thing, easier to remove the dash shell from the car, along with the wiring harness. Not terrible to do, just take your time, and unclip connectors, unbolt and unscrew everything after disconnecting the battery. 

Any questions, let me know. 

I am also going in and upgrading your profile so post approvals won't be an issue. 




 
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Originally posted by Billy C Billy C wrote:

Originally posted by rfox rfox wrote:

i dont wanna change motors because its a numbers matching set. frankly had it not been it wouldve been swapped out many years ago, but thats neither here nor there.

I see, although I don't necessarily understand the numbers matching motor but not numbers matching transmission thing. I wasn't really suggesting swap it for a different one, just get more power out of what you have. Cam, heads, forged internals... sky is the limit really. 351c is a solid starting point

totally, which is why i was considering a gear vendors unit too, amongst other reasons.


Edited by rfox - 31-July-2024 at 10:07AM
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