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Can the center (drag) link go bad?

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Inkara1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can the center (drag) link go bad?
    Posted: 13-April-2023 at 9:33PM
I'm about to rebuild my front suspension once the rest of the parts I ordered come in. I haven't bought a new center link yet, though. Is that something that can go bad or wear out? Would it be worth replacing? Rare Parts shows one for 72-73 for $217.43, but I'd like to avoid spending that if I don't actually need to. 
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-April-2023 at 9:04AM
Rock auto is where I bought mine and it was nowhere near that much. If there is a ball joint end and it wiggles around replace it. I never replaced all the steering links etc. and all my parts went with the car so I cannot say for sure but isn't there a ball end at the pitman arm?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-April-2023 at 9:58AM
I think the center steering bar is a non wear part with holes in it for the TRE and pitman arm joints to bolt onto. Just like the spindle, if the holes for the BJ's and TRE don't get hurt in use, they should last the life of the car.
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-April-2023 at 12:26PM
Generally they don't wear out, but there is the one stud at the idler arm that can wear out.  When I did my steering and suspension, I got a new one just to be on the safe side.  At one time they were hard to get, so it might be worthwhile to have one anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2023 at 5:00PM
Honestly, I rebuilt my current front end steering when I swapped the the Lares 841 box. I reused the link, and inner/outer tie rods when I rebuilt everything because the parts that came off my GTS from it's 17 year barn nap were in very good shape and I saw no reason to not reuse.

With that said, test fit it. If there is slop in the current one, replace it.
Get it while you can as some parts for our cars like the pitman arm are not being made for some reason. Only way to get a new arm, is to send off for a rebuild. Silliest thing, as they used to be $35-$40 at parts stores 20? years ago but you can not find the actual pitman arms at all right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2023 at 7:04PM
I got lucky with the pitman arm. I bought one through the O'Reilly website last year to put on with the new steering box (seal let go in the old steering box), so it's less than a year old. I just checked and it shows as out of stock now, so I'm glad I bought when I did.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hogfiddles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2023 at 1:17AM
ANY part CAN go bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2023 at 10:19AM
Next question:

Haven't gotten to the front end yet, but given the way the car wanders on the highway, I was thinking it would be prudent to change the bushings in the rear control arms too. The rubber in those bushings now is crumbling. The rubber for the sway bar links looks fine (I thought wagons never came with a rear sway bar, so maybe it was added later and those bushings are significantly newer).

Bushings for the lower arms are easy enough to get at a reasonable price. Now, for the upper arm, since I don't want to go poly for a wagon that won't see much extreme handling (and I'd like to match the front, which I bought rubber for), I can get rubber bushings from Rare Parts. The rear upper forward bushing is $27.58 each (needs one per side). OK. But the rear upper rearward bushing is $194.52 each.

Is it worth that? It would be $444.20 in total for the bushings. Would doing just the lower control arms for $40 worth of Moog bushings and leaving the upper alone improve how it tracks down the highway? Or is doing the upper arm important too?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2023 at 1:23PM
That $200 each can't be right. If they were that much, it'd be cheaper and better to buy the Spohn aftermarket control arms. Those are far superior than the stock pieces, serviceable, and cost less.
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2023 at 2:06PM
If I get the Spohn upper arms, would they play nice with the stock lower arms with new rubber bushings?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2023 at 2:30PM
Those should, they are supposed to be the high end type of joints that articulate very well and smoothly. They wouldn't bind up and they would be "firmer" than rubber bushings of other parts.

I would look harder if you need a better/cheaper alternative bushing, that price you mentioned is nuts. I think those Spohn CA's were about $450 for a set a few years ago, they have gone up like everything else. Check on availability too, these days you have to try to buy stuff ahead of time.
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2023 at 3:58PM
I would replace all the rear bushings, not just the lowers. You are correct that wagons did not have a rear sway bar available,  so someone likely added it on.

Unfortunately, the upper bushings font seem to be unavailable as stock replacement parts. I havent seem them in many years, so you will pay NOS prices for them. I think your best and easiest solution is get an energy suspension rear bushing kit and use it for the whole rear. It would make the rear end of your car much more stable, which is especially important since you tow. These bushings complete eliminate lateral axle movement. What is your hesitation with poly? I have rubber on the front of my car and poly in the rear and handles very well. Alternatively, you could use the stock lower bushings but just the upper bushing from the energy kit, which is probably cheaper than Spohn upper arms. Spohn arms are good, but also use poly bushings on one end but spherical on the other.

Make sure you check your strut rod bushings on the front end for wear too if the car is wandering. 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2023 at 5:31PM
I did find this set for $70 for all four arms. It has 72-79 Ranchero listed in addition to other Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln models, but not Torino, etc. Should fit, right?


I do like the idea with the Spohn arms of just bolting them in for an upgrade without having to take the time to press out the old bushings... I'm sure things will take a while so having *something* go quickly would be nice. Spohn's site shows the pair for $299 right now.

As for rear poly, would I take enough curves to have to worry about binding? I also worry about squeaking, and was trying to have the front and rear match. Plus, I think I saw I'd have to burn out the rubber to put the Energy bushings into the old sleeves.

I bought everything new for the front end (except the drag link) -- tie rod inners and outers and idler arm (already replaced steering box and pitman arm), upper and lower ball joints, upper and lower control arm bushings (all rubber), strut rod bushings (also rubber), front sway bar links (rubber too)... it'll be a lot of work. Also got new springs for all four corners. They're for a 75-76 wagon. Mine's a 72, but I figure these will firm up the ride a tiny bit because they're meant to deal with the extra weight of the 5 mph bumpers that I don't have, but won't be extreme like converting to Crown Vic springs.

That sway bar kind of confuses me, since it sure does look factory, including the mounts on the frame. I have a lot of questions about the car... added rear sway bar... was a 351C-2V and C4, but now has the 2V block and heads but cast iron 4V intake and C6 transmission. I did find the address of the prior owner who sold it to junkyard that sold it to the guy who sold it to me, but I'm not sure if it would go over well if I sent a letter asking about it. 


Edited by Inkara1 - 03-May-2023 at 7:09PM
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-May-2023 at 2:22AM
The part you linked to is for full size based cars, so it will not work with a Torino. Those cars use a different rear suspension design which uses a panhard bar rather than upper control arms.  The Ranchero listing must be a mistake.

It is not hard to remove the rubber from the bushings.  You can drill them out or use some heat.  Heat is the easiest.  When I did mine, a torch quickly popped them out with little fuss.

As I said, my car has rubber bushings up front, and Energy Poly in the rear, because I was in the same boat as you.  There is absolutely no binding, and I do drive my car pretty aggressively at times, particularly in the cornering.  The improvement in the rear suspension articulation and stability was amazing from the old rubber bushings. There has been no squeaking at all.  I lubed them with the supplied grease and almost 10 years later they are fine.  I'd suggest you use the black bushing because they are a little softer.

The Spohn arms are top notch, but I think overkill for your wagon.  As I said, they have poly on one end of there upper arms as well, plus a spherical joint on the other end.  Lower arms are spherical joints only.  Spherical joints will likely add more road harshness over poly and rubber bushings.

For the sway bar, it's likely that someone swapped in a factory setup from another car. They were pretty common in late 70's T-Birds, which uses the same chassis.  It's easy to swap a factory one on, as it's a bolt in affair even for cars that were not factory equipped.  Those new springs should work better too as the factory springs, particularly in 1972, were too soft.   Just keep in mind the front ones might lift the front end of your car.  You might have to cut a 1/2 a coil or more to get the front end level.  You definitely don't want the front end to sit high if you are towing.  Invest in some quality shocks too - Bilsteins or KYB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2023 at 9:18PM
Next question... spent the day rebuilding the driver's front (stuff fought me all day but the passenger side should be faster). New bushings and ball joints. Long story short, when reinstalling the shock absorber, I realized I managed to install the upper control arm shaft upside down, so the grooves face up and the curve is toward the fender. Is it safe to drive it that way? To fix it, I'd have to take the whole suspension back apart. I'd have to take out the two bolts that hold the shaft in, but then the nuts will fall into the frame, and I'd have to remove the coil spring to access them. Just how screwed am I? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2023 at 12:54AM
You should have them installed with the grooves down.  Support the lower control arm with a jack or jack stand, then you should be able to unbolt the upper arm without disassembling the suspension.  Just unbolt it at the frame and the upper ball joint, then you can remove it. No need to remove the shocks, springs or anything else. Once the upper arm is out, you can correct the shaft orientation and reinstall.

Did you decided what you are doing for the rear suspension bushings yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2023 at 2:56AM
I bought the Energy black bushing set for the back. I was able to cancel the order for the rubber bushings for the lower arm so I'm not out the $40 or so.

Is there a way to keep the nuts that the shaft bolts screw into from falling down when I unscrew the bolts? When I removed the arm the first time, the nuts fell down to the bottom of the frame channel. Only way I could reach them to put them back was by sticking my hand through the spring perch. Then I had to hold them in place between my fingers to get the bolts started.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2023 at 3:04PM
Does your car just have conventional nuts or does it have the factory type that were nut welded to a rectangular piece of steel?  It's been a lot of years since I pulled my front end apart, but I don't recall how I kept the nuts from falling in the frame.  I certainly don't remember having any issue with them like you describe.  Sorry I can't be of more help.  Maybe someone else will remember.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2023 at 4:50PM
They're welded to the rectangular piece of steel. I can't imagine being able to recover them from where they fell if not. I don't think much of this suspension had been touched since 1972 -- the rubber in the bushings was pretty cracked, and the upper ball joint was riveted on.

I'll sure be sad if I have to take off the bottom part of the suspension too since that's a lot of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2023 at 6:46PM
Good news to report! I found this picture on an old thread here from 2014 taken from the engine side of the frame. Turns out there is access to the nuts from that side that I didn't realize were there from my vantage point inside the wheel well. I can get a finger in there to keep the nuts from falling and then to get the bolts started again.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2023 at 2:09PM
Great news!  I knew there was a simpler way of getting at them, as I have taken just the upper arm off before.  I just couldn't remember off the top of my head.  Good luck and hope you get it all sorted out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2023 at 6:46AM
So I didn't even have to undo the upper ball joint to do this job. I figured I could undo the hold-in bolts, loosen the shaft-to-arm nuts, and turn the shaft over with a screwdriver or crowbar or something. I got the front nut loose, but the back one is right by the brake lines, so I couldn't get a 15/16 socket on it. But the ball joint let me swing the arm enough that I could get the socket on. Then I used my impact driver (not the big gun for lug nuts, but the small one meant for driving screws when building a deck) to loosen the nut, and the impacts actually made the shaft turn. So I just did that for 180 degrees and bolted everything back up. Success!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-August-2024 at 4:55PM
Originally posted by 72FordGTS 72FordGTS wrote:

For the sway bar, it's likely that someone swapped in a factory setup from another car. They were pretty common in late 70's T-Birds, which uses the same chassis.  It's easy to swap a factory one on, as it's a bolt in affair even for cars that were not factory equipped.

So resurrecting a bit of an old thread...

I've had a gear oil leak into the left drum brake for a while now, so my project this weekend was replacing the axle seal and then the rear brakes (since the left shoes got soaked with oil). I'd bought a new bearing and seal that I hadn't used, so I went to use the seal and -- surprise! -- it didn't fit. Turns out I have a "big bearing new style" rear end. Luckily O'Reilly could get me the correct seal same day.

But in addition to the new brake shoes, I got new wheel cylinders because the bleed screws wouldn't budge on the old ones. I got the ones listed for the wagon. Surprise! The back side wouldn't fit through the hole in the backing plate. After looking at the options for other years, it looks like mine uses the cylinders for "hardtop," which has a smaller part that goes through the backing plate.

I was able to get the bleeder screws off the old cylinders when they were off the car and replace those, but one of the pistons in the right cylinder is stuck, and I also have suspicions about the left, so I'd still like to replace them. I at least could properly bleed them, so now the pedal feels nice and firm. I'll see how it stops once I get the speedometer working again (the hold-in-place tab is broken and I think the cable backed out a bit) and can drive it.

The main question is, which years of rear axles had the big bearings and also the factory sway bar, but also used the "hardtop" wheel cylinders? I see those cylinders listed under 1973, 1974, and 1975. Did the Gran Torino have a rear sway bar as an option in 1974 or 1975 after the fastback sport body style went away? But also, I'd read here that Torinos didn't switch to the big bearing until the very end of 1973 or start of 1974 production, but Rock Auto lists the big bearing wheel seal for 1973 and not the small bearing one. So yeah, just trying to figure out what year rear end I have.

I counted splines, and there are 28. There is a tag on the pumpkin that says it's 3.00:1, and that seems right based on freeway RPM.

I'm also trying to chase down a rumble from the rear that starts over 70 mph. I'd checked the bearings a year or so ago after first noticing the rumble, and they felt great and were quiet turning them by hand. (I wonder if pulling the axles caused my leak on the left side, but no leak on the right.) After replacing the pinion seal, I topped up the gear oil because some leaked out when replacing the seal, and the seal had been leaking. Between that and making sure the U-bolts on the rear U-joint were only at 13 ft-lbs, the noise improved -- I'd hear it sometimes but not all the time. But driving back from the car show in May (which was when I noticed the gear oil leaking into the brake drum), as I got farther along in the 387-mile journey, the rumbling started getting worse. Is rumbling over 70 mph a sign of low oil, a bearing in the pumpkin going bad, a wheel bearing going bad, or something else? No noises below 70 mph that I can notice over the engine and wind noise.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2024 at 10:48AM
can you post a pic of the pumpkin tag?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2024 at 12:22PM
(Sorry it somehow uploaded upside down...)

1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2024 at 3:16PM
i'll go out on a limb and say your axle is a 1974 model year unit



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2024 at 4:28PM
So digging around with what else I can find on the tag, it appears to be model WEB-AV, which is 74-76 Cougar, Montego, Torino, 9-inch 3.00 non-locking with two spider gears. Manufacture date is July 1974, and last letter in the pic is too blurry.


Bummer I don't have the WEB-AY, which is the same except with four spider gears, so it should be stronger. But I don't think I'm putting out enough horsepower for that to be a problem... and it would be nice to upgrade to a locker or limited slip someday anyway.

So I took it out driving for a few minutes, and it seemed quieter again, but also hard to tell over wind noise. I did find that I'd start to get a bit of a jerk over 75 mph, like the engine was starving for fuel. Is there any possibility of that having something to do with the rear brake work? The thing with fuel supply is that I've taken it to higher RPMs than that while full-throttle accelerating, so if my floats were too low or pump not providing enough flow, I'd think it would come up then too. But all that accelerating hard was months ago, and the carb does seem to have a new off-idle flat spot that wasn't there in May, so I don't know. Just wondered if anyone has heard of anything to do with brakes causing that issue before I go through the carb again.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-August-2024 at 8:51PM
So the rear end was swapped, along with the transmission.  The later rear ends are better anyway, since they have the bigger bearings, which is good for a heavy wagon.

It's possible if the brakes were really dragging they might make some noise.  If that were the case, I think the drums would get pretty hot and you'd probably smell the linings. It sounds more like a bearing noise based on what you are describing.  Have you checked the oil level yet?
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You could rebuild the brake cylinders. Small hone and a cup kit. It has new end seals to keep the dust out too I believe.
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I had topped the oil level off after I replaced the pinion seal, and things got quieter. Later, I took it to a car show on the other side of the state, and started getting a noise in the rear left brake. I pulled the drum at the show and found that the bottom brake spring had broken and was rolling around the bottom of the drum. I also found gear oil on the shoes and hardware inside the drum. I was able to find a hardware kit at a nearby store, so I put on a new bottom spring and sprayed everything with brake cleaner for the trip home.

On the way home, the rumble started getting louder if I got to 70 mph or above. I thought maybe more oil leaked out the bad axle seal and I was low. I had checked both wheel bearings last September or so, and they both felt great and were quiet turning them by hand.

When I had the left axle out again this past weekend, the bearing still felt smooth turning it by hand. I shined a flashlight down the axle tube and could see oil, but I added probably 2/3 of a quart so it looked like the level was at or maybe a hair above the plug on the pumpkin.

When I took it out yesterday, it was quieter again, but now at 75 mph or so, I start getting a feeling like the engine is cutting out, both uphill and downhill. It almost seems like fuel supply. I hadn't really had it up to 75-80 mph since rebuilding the engine, but that's just a bit over 3,000 RPM in top gear. I've had it up to the low to mid 4,000s during full throttle acceleration since the rebuild, and I'd think that would require more fuel delivery than maintaining 75 mph at part throttle uphill (and also felt going back downhill). But also, yesterday, I gently accelerated up to highway speed instead of going full throttle, because I thought all I'd be testing is if it made noise above 70 mph.

I guess I can take it out again and see if the jerking I feel is dependent on RPM under load, or if it's speed dependent like it seems. The rumble noise all this time has never, ever occurred under 70 mph that I can recall. Is it possible for a bearing to feel great turning by hand but make noise over 70 mph? I'd thought low oil because maybe over 70, the gears are spinning fast enough to toss the oil all around inside the axle housing and not leave enough at the bottom of the pumpkin.

To answer the question about rebuilding the wheel cylinders, I've been weighing whether to do that or get new cylinders now that I know which ones fit my axle that's been swapped in from a different vehicle. Either way, I'd have to order them. I will say that with the brakes actually properly bled, the pedal feels great, and it stops as well as can be expected of a 1970s system.

(My apologies for the profound lack of brevity.)
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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