Epoxy and por-15 questions |
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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Posted: 07-October-2013 at 5:27PM |
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Hi all, I have never dealt with paints too seriously and had some questions.
Epoxy primer, what is it? And what's it used for and applied to? From my understanding it's a primer sealer? And what's that mean? Water and or rust resistant? And por-15 I know what it is and what it's used for I was just wondering if I was right about epoxy if it would be even more protectant applied onto epoxy on say a frame, or would it be better to just apply por-15 to bare metal? Thanks for any input |
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Don't know anything about epoxy primer, but I love POR-15. Just got done using a quart of the stuff to coat all sorts of parts like my inner fenders, radiator support and other attaching inner body pieces.
Can't say enough good things about it, but proper surface prep is critical. At least the degreasing part and zinc on bare metal. Doesn't have to be bare metal to get a good seal. The inner fenders I did were not sandblasted, just wire brushed (still took a while to do), and heavily and repeatedly degreased. But it seems to have turned out well. My F-250 had some rust out under the battery. I cleaned it all up (still mounted in truck) and put some POR-15 over it on both sides. It really wasn't even perfectly clean - and a couple years later still doing pretty well.
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Scott Eklund
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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What do you mean by degreased? Doesn't por-15 have a prep before application or is that bare metal only?
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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POR-15 makes some prep products - one is a heavy and nasty degreaser spray. This is for all things you want to paint POR-15 onto (also works as a great multi-use degreaser).
They also make a blue zinc spray that you spray and and wash off. This is for bare metal only and just sort of gives the POR-15 something more to adhere to. These are the two basic prep products for POR-15 application. As I have found with their other products, it is good stuff but prep before application is key. I did a really good job with their exhaust paint twice on manifolds. On the third time I skimped (in a hurry), and it failed. The others are actually doing well considering they are exhaust paint.
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Scott Eklund
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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Thanks, anybody else know anything about epoxy, or want to say anything else?
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Well, epoxy is a synthetic plastic polymer. When used as a primer, it provides a good base coat. I'm no expert, but I believe it is a great base coat over metal or properly prepped surface. Anything that has 2k in the name means it uses 2 products (coating + catalyst) and cures to a finish, as opposed to drying. I believe a lot of people use the paint steps -> Epoxy 2K primer -> Urethane high build primer -> Paint (Base coat/ Clear coat or single stage).
I would do some googleing to really understand how they work. It can get confusing and what to use really depends on what you are trying to achieve. About POR-15. I have to say I absolutely hate the stuff. I would rather have my eyes poked out with salty pencils than deal with POR 15. Here's why: !!!! IT FREAKIN STICKS TO EVERYTHING AND IS LIKE FREAKING GLUE YOU CAN'T REMOVE !!!!! I am pulling the front suspension off my 73 GTS and everywhere the prev owner hit with POR-15 is like a bad dream. POR-15 has this epoxy like base that cures hard. Get it on any threads or bolt heads or such and you need to wire brush it off to get them apart. It is also near impossible to get off your skin and IS impossible to get off clothes. I don't think it looks all that great, doesn't like bare metal, is expensive, will cure in the can, will seal the can top in place, will cure the WHOLE CAN OVERNIGHT if you double dip your brush in or get any moisture in it. Too much trouble. Did I mention its also priced the same as a 2012 Lamborghini Gallardo front fender? So, um, yeah. Not a fan. Oh, almost forgot!! It breaks down under UV, so don't use it on anything on your car that is outside unless you top coat it. But there is GOOD NEWS!! A product that can be used outdoors on Earth, won't weld itself into its container, goes on bare metal just fine, will actually come off human skin, and doesn't cost $14 more than a used 1999 Lotus Turbo Exprit V8 - Eastwood Rust Encapsulator !! (Yeah, sounds like an invention from Dr. Doofensmirtz) I LOVE THE STUFF !! Goes on waaaay easier, is UV resistant, looks nicer finished (YMMV). For $20 less per quart, I think its a MUCH better product both in long term durability and rust protection and is galacticlly better in Ease of Use. Bare metal, light rust, it smooths out and looks great. Yeah, only available via Eastwood, but...:shrug: Good Stuff. |
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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Hah, Dr. Doofensmirtz, how old are you again? Lol, can't believe anybody knows who he is, I could imagine him saying that, ah that made me laugh. So does this Eastwood stuff give the same amount of protectant, and does it last as long? More prep? Less prep? It sounds pretty good, so why doesn't everybody use it over por?
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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I checked it out, and I believe I'll be using the frame and suspension kit, and the price is pretty good, but if I got the frame blasted would I have to use the rust converter?
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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Lol, too old. And It should probably be called the Rust Encapsulatorlator ;-)
I bought a can of POR 15 and used it to coat the inside of my fenders and started doing some frame sections. After the can top sealed so tight I had to use an old fashioned triangle can opener to pour out the contents, I was aggravated. I sealed the can in a zip lock bag (squeezing as much air out as possible) and the next day it formed a hard brittle skin inside the can. I poked through it with a screw driver and used more. Por and Eastwood both seem to go on fine if its rusted metal that is wire brushed pretty clean. Where I think EW is better is POR doesn't seem to like bare metal too much. It seems to not want to stick to that. Its like it needs some rust or dirt to stick to. EW didn't have a problem with wire brushing to shiny metal. I also didn't like that it will glop bolt heads and make it difficult to get a wrench or socket on. No biggie for bigger stuff, but not fun on smaller bolts and nuts. I think the durability is comparable for rust prevention. There is a guy that did a long term test with POR and Eastwood and over all they both did okay, with EW showing better protection at the edge were non-painted meets the POR/EW products (resists rust from creeping under the coating I guess). POR you can get a lot of places for $45- $55 a qt. Eastwood is only from Eastwood. I like Eastwood stuff - I use their rust stuff and their welder. No, I'm not a paid spokes person, but for $5-10 bucks less (and I can use the whole can) I'm a convert.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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robot9000
Senior Member Joined: 02-September-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 505 |
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No, if you have your frame blasted, just use a 2k (If possible) epoxy sealer.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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Check out the frame and suspension kit though, it comes with
Rust Converter primes the surface by turning rust into an inert iron oxide Rust Encapsulator protects against further rusting Topcoat with Original Chassis Black Satin to seal the metal against the elements (Copied that) So with that kit and blasting, use rust converter? Edited by Grantorinosport351 - 08-October-2013 at 2:55AM |
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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Oh ok, epoxy. Thanks a lot robot I think you have made me an Eastwood fan!
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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You guys are going to hate me on this, but I use Rustoleum Industrial Gloss and Semi-Gloss in the gallon cans. I prep it thoroughly, prime the bad areas and spray/roll it on.
Reasons? It is UV resistant - rolled/brushed a Bronco II with it 4 years ago and it still looks good. Have painted metal cabinets that are still outside with it - still look good. It is cheap and easily obtainable. It is easy to clean up. It does not have a ceramic/epoxy base, so removal of parts after painting is easy. It has a superb shelf life. It is plenty durable to withstand undercarriage abuse when properly applied. Superb finish. It is cheap (again). You nust get the Industrial version (not the Home Depot regular version) for these better results. I have used POR-15 and had decent results, but used it all at once and didn't keep the vehicle (thus avoiding the shelf life issue and future parts removal). I threw away my clothes after using. Eastwood products are really hard to beat for the price and quality. In a nutshell, if you have limited funds and want a daily driver, go with the rustoleum. If you do it all at once, are not planning on working on it and are thinking of resale, then POR-15 is a choice for a "show" car. Eastwood is great for that situation as well. Edited by unlovedford - 08-October-2013 at 2:56AM |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Grantorinosport351
Senior Member Joined: 11-August-2013 Location: Nocona tx Status: Offline Points: 1312 |
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Rustoleum isn't that bad, we painted an entire huge stock trailer with it, and it came out great, saw it a few years later after selling it and it still looked good, but I think I'm goin' with Eastwood.
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~Bryan
72 gts h-code (formal roof) 67falcon 04 f250 ''the great white'' |
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GranTorinoSport
Admin Group Admin of "The Org" Joined: 20-May-2003 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 2287 |
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Another one to consider is Rust Bullet. Regul8r had talked with them at one time and seemed to like the product. I believe he had obtained some and was going to use it on Ol Brown or something, but don't remember what his impressions were of it.
Rust Bullet was another product that was less temperamental than POR15 and claimed to have some advantages. Again, worth serious consideration but I don't have a ton of information on it. |
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Scott Eklund
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robot9000
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So, are you having the whole frame blasted or just parts or maybe none? If you are having the frame blasted, just shoot it with some epoxy primer. You don't need the Eastwood kit. If you have a compressor, a gal of Summit 2K epoxy is pretty cheap. Match it to a Harbor Freight fun and you will have a spiffy frame in no time. If you want to top coat it with chassis black, all the better, but epoxy will do fine. If you are NOT having your frame blasted, or not all of it, then you would use the Eastwood kit. The Eastwood kit assumes you are not media blasting the metal.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport
2010 Mazda 6 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2011 Damon Daybreak 35BD |
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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Rust encapsulator is "da bomb". And rustoleum 7777
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Mike
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SininenIII
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POR15 does not stick well on epoxy primer.
When I had my frame blasted, the guy who blasted the frame shot epoxy primer on it. Back at the garage I added a layer of POR-15 over epoxy thinking it would be the best protection for the frame. Later when moving the frame I accidentally hit it with something, I discovered the POR15 was coming off quite easily. I carefully ground off the POR-15 leaving most of the epoxy on, and added 2 new coats of 2K epoxy primer, and 2 coats of heavy industry semi-gloss black 2K urethane paint. The 2K urethane seems to stick great, cleans very easily and takes even hard hits. I used it on frame, firewall, suspension parts and bottom of the car. To anyone interested hereĀ“s the description of the paint:
Before that I used POR15 on many things, it stays great on clean, prepared metal. Edited by SininenIII - 08-October-2013 at 3:49PM |
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Aatu
73 Gran Torino Sport |
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Psquare75
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I know I was a big proponent of POR15 and later Zero Rust, but I'm switching to epoxy primer + topcoat of some sort.
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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Big Bird
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Epoxy primer followed by sandable primer if you are using automotive paint over it and want a good finish (DP-90 or similar) try to spray it as smooth as possible because epoxy primer can be a bear to sand.
On frames, floorpans and other unseen areas, rustoleum rusty metal primer and satin black paint. POR-15 is good but it's expensive, needs to be topcoated, doesn't play well with some topcoats, and is a PITA to get out of your hair, off your skin, etc. |
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