![]() |
Ford 400-4V |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Author | ||
Big Bird ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 07-March-2018 at 11:52PM |
|
Admin Note: I move the posts in relation to the 400-4V discussion from my engine build thread to here. We went a little off topic from the original post, but this is all great discussion worthy of it's own thread. This is the photo that started the discussion: ![]() ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Allegedly, there were 400-4v engines planned/maybe produced for Commiefornia emissions.never seen one. Might be like the 72 Thunderbirds with a 400, everyone said Bigfoot had the only one. Then they started turning up...
Edited by 72FordGTS - 15-March-2018 at 8:27AM |
||
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
||
![]() |
||
Big Bird ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
72FordGTS wrote:
"It's amazing how many people are still convinced that Ford made a factory 400-4V. I just located this photo from a google search. It was a Ford LTD with a 400. You can see the Edelbrock intake on this car." Ford had actually started pre-production of a 400 4V intake and listed a 400 4V as an optional engine for California Emissions in some of their brochures. The 400 4V sticker is probably aftermarket, though.
|
||
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
||
![]() |
||
Rockatansky ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 5903 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
i'd have to assume that the air cleaners had a 400-4V decal on them?
they were 'produced' and in service, many testimonies from people that had one or serviced them the one we have pics of was found in a junk yard IIRC, so it was out in the world doing it's thing. the D7AE stamped casting date puts in tough time period, catalytic converters were here to stay and carbs were on the way out fast because they puked the cats, the mfgr's needed precise fuel control good chance that's the reason the 4300-D went bye-bye? August 1976 Pop-Sci did an article on Ford's new VV carb https://books.google.com/books?id=EgEAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=ford+variable+venturi+carb&source=bl&ots=I_vqrb1aEX&sig=PFNIVNEQUPAGHU07SOmww4tWOWs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoj_e5hOPZAhWIrVkKHfLnDGUQ6AEIcjAL#v=onepage&q=ford%20variable%20venturi%20carb&f=false listings show coverage starting in 1977 ![]() old forum links http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/search?searchterm=XE193476&sort=match intake cast number ![]() EGR number ink stamped, consecutive to the intake number ![]() it's not a Cleveland or a 460 ![]() Edited by Rockatansky - 10-March-2018 at 12:48PM |
||
72 GT Ute
|
||
![]() |
||
72FordGTS ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5607 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
The decal I posted above were custom made with photoshop. This thread talks about it here, see post #11 Rock, you're the expert, so you probably know more but it was my understanding that that 4-bbl intake was an "experimental part." While yes it was obviously produced, I meant it didn't go on any regular production cars. The pic I posted is the same intake that you posted pics of. I always thought that this was just a one off experimental part that ended up in someone's car. I didn't know there were others?? FWIW, I did check the Ford Master Parts catalog and there is no listing for that part number. The only listing is for the 2-bbl intake. No special intakes for the 400, for police use either. It does make me think of one other story. In James C May's Ranchero book, he mentions that there were these special edition Shelby Rancheros made for 1978 that included a 400-4bbl engine. It's weird because the guy is a highly respected historian, but the idea of a 1978 Shelby Ranchero seems ridiculous, especially since no one seems to have any photos of one. Here is what he wrote in his book:
Now I wonder if this intake and these "Shelby Rancheros" are related? It seems like a lot of detail? I wonder if Marti would have states on these. Sometimes there is some truth in tall tales... |
||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||
![]() |
||
Rockatansky ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 5903 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
No i don't think the 400-4V ever went forward into normal production but the XE examples didn't stay in-house either. the 2nd pic here, http://351cleveland.wikifoundry.com/page/Ford+400+4V $68 according to somebody that knows means this intake is at least the 68th example produced, i forget if it meant 68 total or each was stamped in succession and there could be more? another hitch in the giddy-up is the block cracking problem the Michigan Casting Center had in/up to early 1977. if the 400-4V's were built on MCC blocks there's a good chance most of them went back to Ford puked under warranty or recalled
Carroll won't answer but has anyone tried calling? http://www.shelby.com/?topic=contact Edited by Rockatansky - 10-March-2018 at 2:55PM |
||
72 GT Ute
|
||
![]() |
||
qcode72 ![]() Member ![]() Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
I was in charge of car ordering in a ford dealership. 1977 ford offered a 400 4v, for the 1977 smaller tbirds.due to federal epa tests,they failed and never were sold to public. thy manifolds produced put into old road parts with a x stamping on manifold.
|
||
![]() |
||
72FordGTS ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5607 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
That's great info and supports what Randy said earlier. Does anyone have any documentation about this engine? Would be neat to see. As I said, the Ford Parts Catalog has nothing about this intake. Failing the EPA tests kind of goes along with the Shelby Rancheros using this setup, since the claim was they did not have to be EPA compliant.
Edited by 72FordGTS - 15-March-2018 at 8:11AM |
||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||
![]() |
||
dave302 ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
The 400 4V engine option is listed several times in the September 1976 ford and mercury car dealer sales brochures, that advertised the new 1977 car models for sale. It does not state that this Engine was only available in California. It appears that this engine option might have been available in all fifty states of the U.S. It was also listed several times in the September 1976 edition of motor trend magazine, that advertised the new 1977 ford and mercury cars for sale. It shows this 400 4V engine as an available option for the 1977 thunderbirds, LTD's and mercury marquis's. It says it was the standard and only engine available for the 1977 California Mercury Marquis's. And it was the standard engine available for the 1977 California LTD's.
Edited by dave302 - 15-March-2018 at 10:34AM |
||
![]() |
||
Rockatansky ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 5903 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
we've been looking for documentation like this for Years
Edited by Rockatansky - 14-March-2018 at 3:11PM |
||
72 GT Ute
|
||
![]() |
||
dave302 ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
I am not trying to suggest that these 78 Shelby GT Ranchero's do not exist, but there was a discussion about the ranchero book on the Ranchero site, and none of them have ever seen one. There is a link there for a '78 Shelby Ranchero GT clone tribute car that was for sale on Ebay five and three quarter years ago, but the link is too old to work.
This subject was also discussed on a Shelby site eleven years ago and no one answered. The person who asked the question about the 78 Shelby GT Ranchero was also the person who answered the question.
Edited by dave302 - 15-March-2018 at 10:39AM |
||
![]() |
||
dave302 ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
The ranchero book claims that the '78 Shelby GT Ranchero used a 735 C.F.M. Holley carburetor, but I have never seen or heard of a 735 CFM Holley carburetor with a Motorcraft 4300D spread bore throttle bore design, such as in the pictures of the 400 4V "X" experimental intake manifold, that was shown on the upper post's of this thread. Maybe ford had used a different square bore throttle bore design intake manifold on the '78 Shelby GT Ranchero's to fit the Holley 735? Or maybe they used a special carburetor to intake manifold adapter. There is a picture below of a motorcraft 4300D spread bore carburetor gasket.
![]() Edited by dave302 - 15-March-2018 at 10:43AM |
||
![]() |
||
dave302 ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 08-October-2009 Location: usa Status: Offline Points: 3171 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
There is a picture below of a Holley square bore carburetor gasket that is used with many Holley 735 C.F.M. Carburetors.
![]() Edited by dave302 - 14-March-2018 at 7:10PM |
||
![]() |
||
californiajohnny ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14555 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
did you know holley made a 3bbl carb?
|
||
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
||
![]() |
||
7T9_Tbird ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-December-2017 Location: Athens, Alabama Status: Offline Points: 487 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Read the teamshelby.com post, and tell me it's not strange this guy seems to answer himself as if it's a different person.
![]() |
||
John
79 Thunderbird Heritage 79 Thunderbird Town Landau 02 Ram 1500 Sport Quad Cab |
||
![]() |
||
72FordGTS ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5607 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
So based on everything laid out so far, it seems Ford planned to introduce a 400-4V for 1977 as the top engine option for the T-Bird and as an available option for the full-size cars. It seems they planned to use it to meet the CA emissions. However, as we know this didn't actually happen. My guess is they couldn't get the engine to pass emissions so they abandoned it.
However, we do know some of the manifolds definitely made it into field use, but I guess it's not really clear how this happened. I doubt they went on regular production cars, but maybe some engineering test cars/engines made it on the street? Or the intakes were sold off? Who knows. It seems doubtful that they went on the Shelby Rancheros (if they even existed).
Edited by 72FordGTS - 15-March-2018 at 4:35AM |
||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||
![]() |
||
7T9_Tbird ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 04-December-2017 Location: Athens, Alabama Status: Offline Points: 487 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
I worked in Toyota's engine plant in Huntsville, Alabama for a while. Any parts that didn't pass muster or were used for testing went in the scrap metal dumpster in the back. Possible the same thing happened to these intakes, and somebody at the company who picked up their scrap saw a chance to make some cash, rather than have them melted down. Just a thought.
![]() |
||
John
79 Thunderbird Heritage 79 Thunderbird Town Landau 02 Ram 1500 Sport Quad Cab |
||
![]() |
||
Rockatansky ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 5903 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
http://www.ford6v.com/ford-6v-tech
"351C 6VFORD 366 NASCAR ENGINE PROGRAM Bob Champion’s 351C , The Cleveland 6V intake manifold. According to Tom Vaught, recently retired after 39 years as Ford Motor Company’s Boosted Engine Design Engineer and former Holley Engineer on the design team responsible for the development of the Holley Carburetion for the Cleveland 366 6V intake manifold, this 6V carburetion program came about through Ford’s 366 NASCAR Engine program where they built 500 366ci Cleveland motors with 6V intakes for NASCAR competition, only to have NASCAR disallow their use, causing Ford to physically destroy all the intakes. As apart of the Ford NASCAR 366 Engine program, Tom Vaught of Ford Motor Company (Holley Carburetors then) was a member of the design team that built the Holley 2300 6V carburetors for this special Ford project, using Holley 2300 vacuum secondary 6V carburetors. During the testing, it was determined that the 1350cfm flow of all three carburetors was too much air and fuel for the Ford 366 program so these carburetors were sleeved for the Ford NASCAR 366 Program. After the comprehensive destruction of the 500 original motors, intakes and 1500 Holley carburetors, very few survived. ... When Ford cancelled the Ford 366 NASCAR program, they decided to abandon the Holley 6V carburetors which they had Holley develop for them. Holley then offered them to GM and MOPAR. GM was not interested, but MOPAR was. ... " |
||
72 GT Ute
|
||
![]() |
||
qcode72 ![]() Member ![]() Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
The testing of the 400 4v engine, was performed at the Arizona proving grounds in march of 1976.These tests were performed in cars under epa supervision. the cars were 1976 torinos and montegoes. The engines were pulled destroyed and the cars were sold for salvage.THE cars were not serialized,not operable on street.
. |
||
![]() |
||
handsofstone ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3902 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() Edited by handsofstone - 02-December-2018 at 6:55AM |
||
![]() |
||
qcode72 ![]() Member ![]() Joined: 18-October-2013 Location: greenville,pa Status: Offline Points: 68 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
In 1978 carroll Shelby,was not with ford.He was only making chile and selling parts.
|
||
![]() |
||
FORDMUSCLE ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 09-October-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 289 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
I had a prototype aluminum 4v intake for a 400...bought it from a old Ford guy that worked in the XE Ford department....
I sold it to a XE Ford collector and He had another 4v 400 aluminum intake and his Dad worked on the XE 400 engines and He had 1 or 2 of the XE 400 motors that his Dad had gotten....Won't say who this guy is as He doesn't want people to know He has this stuff... |
||
![]() |
||
handsofstone ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3902 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Pics or it didn't happen. 😉
|
||
![]() |
||
MrSmog ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 21-January-2016 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 1407 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
was this a true 4v headed 400, or just a 4v intake on the regular production 400 with 2v heads?
|
||
![]() |
||
Big Bird ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Early 70s, they (allegedly) prototyped/tested 400s with 351-4V heads and a 4v intake...
76/77 were supposed to be 2v heads. Edited by Big Bird - 03-December-2018 at 8:39AM |
||
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
||
![]() |
||
FORDMUSCLE ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 09-October-2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 289 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Yep...the early intakes were aluminum and 4v ports like the one I had...the 76-77 were cast iron with 2v ports....
AND NO...I don't have any pics...but I got a BOAT load of cash for my intake.... |
||
![]() |
||
stuck ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23-December-2007 Location: michigan Status: Offline Points: 279 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
On facebook in Massillon Ohio there is a add titled 351 M ? V8 FOUR BARREL .It was posted 3 days ago from 8-12-23. I have 4 good screenshots im trying to post. It has a cast iron rusty intake and the modified bell pattern. It is a complete engine. BILLY BAKER
Edited by stuck - 12-August-2023 at 3:26AM |
||
michigan
|
||
![]() |
||
stuck ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23-December-2007 Location: michigan Status: Offline Points: 279 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
||
michigan
|
||
![]() |
||
stuck ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23-December-2007 Location: michigan Status: Offline Points: 279 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
||
michigan
|
||
![]() |
||
stuck ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23-December-2007 Location: michigan Status: Offline Points: 279 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
||
michigan
|
||
![]() |
||
aquartlow ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2235 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
|
||
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |