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Edelbrock 351C Air Gap Manifold?

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Ross6860 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28-April-2014 at 12:00PM
Anyone running this manifold on their Cleveland?

Specs look right but I don't think it will fit under the hood of a '74-'76 Torino.

The Performer is a little dated, but it may have to do.  Cutting the hood is not an option.

Any suggestions?

Thanks, 
1974 Gran Torino
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Billy C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 2:44PM
Most people say the big block weiand stealth wont fit under the hood and it fit on mine, if that fits, anything will fit. (I really don't know that for a fact so hopefully someone else with experience will chime in.) The stock scoop of the GTS's helps a bunch getting the air cleaner/plumbing under there. 

The isolated runners are sweet, but are you going to benefit from the plenum volume of the air gap? If the motor isn't breathin deep then velocity goes down and throttle response also suffers low on the curve. Might be better off with the performer anyways.


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ilyes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 2:58PM
I do not know if you have a built motor, or stock. I would keep the performer if you are relatively low cammed, and not running high rpm most of the time. The performer has better low end torque, and unless you use bags of ice, or drill a giant hole i your front end, you won't see any benefit to the air gap on the buttometer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 3:39PM
Stealth Intake on big block fit on my 72 with factory scoop but wouldn't fit on my 73 without cutting a hole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 3:41PM
73 had scoop or no scoop? Assuming no scoop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 3:47PM
no scoop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 3:51PM
ya, gota love the scoop. Really helps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 5:14PM
best looking scoop ford ever made! it's a shame they only used it one year, if it were on the 73, it sure would make life easier for us 74-76 guys Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SininenIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 7:28PM
The Air gap manifold will fit under stock hood, if you use drop-base air cleaner, with 3" filter.  At least it fits under ´73 hood in mine.
Aatu
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 8:00PM
info is in the install notes on the eddybrock page

Performer - Manifold height: A-3.50", B-4.30; Carb pad height: 3.90"
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/manifolds/ford/performer-351.shtml

Airgap - Manifold height: A-4.48", B-5.56; Carb pad height: 5.02"
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/manifolds/ford/rpm-air-gap-351c.shtml

so the Airgap carb pad is about 1 1/8" higher than the Performer

a drop base can get your inch back, maybe more for a taller filter element in the same space

2V or 4V heads?





Edited by Rockatansky - 28-April-2014 at 8:01PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2014 at 11:23PM
I believe 72GTS351CJ aka Rick, has this intake on his engine 351CJ aussie heads.I know his car has been on the road for awhile. I'm sure he'd be happy give his opinion.I'm going with this same intake as well, Picking up engine from shipping today.
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-April-2014 at 12:51PM
Yes. I'm very happy with it. The engine has a stroker kit and hydraulic roller cam. 4 speed with 391 gears. It pulls hard from beginning to red line at 6600 rpm. Don't know your specs but this was put together by the engine builder and I'm sure he matched everything to work together. Good luck. Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ross6860 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2014 at 10:44AM
Thanks, guys.

I'll get some clay and check the under-hood clearance.  Just to be sure.

I'm currently figuring out my build.  I have a bone stock 351C under the hood now, a whopping 174 hp, but have a donor motor to build.

72GTS351CJ

What cam are you running?  How much compression?

6600 rpm?  Solid lifters?

Scat kit?  408"?  How was the install?  Did you have to do a lot of clearance work on the block?

75GranMan

Same question about your cam choice.

Anything you guys can tell me about your builds would be helpful.  This is a street car that will need to run on pump gas, so 10.5:1 max CR.  3.5 to 3.75 rear end.

Looking at a Comp Cams 270H

I have a lot of options since I have a set of Aussie 2V heads, Open chamber 2V heads, and ready access to quench 4V heads if I want them.

I just want my Torino to run as well as my 2004 Silverado 2500HD :-)  It's kind of embarrassing when that big heavy beast can walk away from you...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2014 at 11:08AM
Rick 72 gts in project updates gives you the entire build. 393 stroker on pumped gas. No aggravation. Running it for over a year and hasn't leet me down yet. John aka 75GranMan sent his engine to the same builder after hearing about mine . Hopefully he received his engine by now. If I can help. Let me know. -Rick-
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2014 at 11:22AM
Sorry. It's not on there l just looked. 10 to 1 pistons and 562 in lift hydraulic roller cam. Hope that helps. -Rick-
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-April-2014 at 11:24AM
Here is a Shortcut to Ricks 72 GTS Project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72GTS351CJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2014 at 12:29AM
For the life of me I can't do that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote antlerfiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2014 at 2:05AM
A 280 Magnum Hydraulic cam sounds real good in a 351C.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2014 at 3:35PM
I got my engine back Tuesday.My build was suppose to be very similar to Ricks..but for some reason it doesn't appear so.393 stroker, The builder went with an Erson E220222 Lift of .545,with roller lifters/rockers.10to 1 Eagle crank with H rods.Aussie close chamber heads with stainless valves, screw in studs/guide plates. Weiand X-celerator 7516 single plane intake manifold.Holley 750 with manual secondaries. MSD 8577/mech advance.The build was suppose to have the airgap dual plane,750 w/vac sec, MSD w/vac adv...I haven't called him to discuss his changes yet..I not sure I'm gonna be happy with this?
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2014 at 3:48PM
I can tell you when I had my '84 F150, I had sold the truck, then bought it back. It came back with a 302 air gap and I LOVED the way it pulled.

I'm looking at buying one for my '72 GTS with my 71 351 2V headed engine...with the mild setup I have, should make for a fun time rolling the gears with a bigger carb and my 3.50 gearing put back in. Shame they don't make it for the 4v heads.

Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ross6860 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2014 at 9:20AM
FWIW - Edelbrock says it works with both 2V and 4V heads.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/manifolds/ford/rpm-air-gap-351c.shtml
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ross6860 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2014 at 9:28AM
You running a 4-speed or big converter?  Bracket car?

Open plenum and a double pumper doesn't sound like what I would want for the street.

Hope it works for you.

I would be really pissed off if a builder just changed the components without discussion unless you just gave him a budget number and let him make whatever choices he wanted. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2014 at 10:09AM
more Airgap info

http://351cleveland.wikifoundry.com/page/Edelbrock+7564



Edited by Rockatansky - 02-May-2014 at 10:10AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2014 at 3:43PM
Originally posted by Ross6860 Ross6860 wrote:

You running a 4-speed or big converter?
 
It is a 4-speed.


Edited by dave302 - 02-May-2014 at 3:45PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2014 at 7:23AM
Originally posted by 75GranMan 75GranMan wrote:

... The builder went with an Erson E220222 Lift of .545,with roller lifters/rockers. 10to 1 Eagle crank with H rods. Aussie close chamber heads with stainless valves, screw in studs/guide plates. Weiand X-celerator 7516 single plane intake manifold. Holley 750 with manual secondaries. MSD 8577/mech advance. The build was suppose to have the airgap dual plane, 750 w/vac sec, MSD w/vac adv... I haven't called him to discuss his changes yet.. not sure I'm gonna be happy with this?


Erson E220222 also known as TQ-40-H

BASIC RPM RANGE 2500-5500

Needs 4 bbl, headers, lower gears and medium stall
Extremely strong mid range camshaft

LSA 110*, ICL 110*

TIMING POINT INT 100
TIMING POINT EXH -16 OR 344

545"/545" lift

284*/296* adv dur

timing events
IO 32*
IC 72*
EO 78*
EC 38*
overlap 70*

220*/228* dur @ .050" lift

timing events
IO 0*
IC 40*
EO 44*
EC 4*
overlap 4*

MEASURED WITH A .750" FOLLOWER
BASE CIRCLE 1.1150"/1.1150"
===============================================
my first concern was that it's not a hydraulic roller cam, there's no 'R' in the grind designation but the mention of being measured with a .750" follower suggests that it could be? a .750" diameter roller wheel is common on roller lifters

2nd concern would be the 'on the fly' the changes of the carb, intake & dizzy

are the compression ratio & the cam not what you talked about also?

sounds like you got somebody else's engine, what's the chance the builder had those parts hangin out before you cam along? dated invoices would put that question to rest

all in all it's not a terrible ridiculous build but it is quite different from what you wanted, is there a cost effectiveness factor involved with accepting the changes?

lack of a vacuum advance is going to show itself in reduced fuel economy, same with the manual secondary carb... and the single plane intake. at the end of the day the build you spec'd may actually perform better than his and use less gas doing it

============================
============================

edit:

Uh-Oh. http://www.american-automobile.com/Erson%20ford.pdf

lists that cam as a Hydraulic Flat Tappet

I'm not sure if that's cool

Edited by Rockatansky - 03-May-2014 at 7:34AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75GranMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2014 at 4:16PM
Max,I spoke with the builder last night,It is indeed a hyd flat tappet cam...It was suppose to be a roller cam.I sent my CJ bare block to him April 2013,I told him what I was looking for 425-450HP on pump gas. A street engine with an occasional drag strip run. This same builder had built Ricks CJ. from the getgo he suggested mirroring Ricks build. He stated the wieand 7516 netted significally more HP the the AirGap...but I don't have the Dyno sheet to prove this. He also stated this wieand comb netted 422HP...But no proof of this. The compression ratio was to be 10:1, he stated it's about 10.7:1 CID of 393. He told me that I'll be very happy with his combination...and I don't want to be disappointed!
John 75Gran Torino 4spd
Tighten it down until it snaps and then back it off a half turn!
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