The Ford Torino Page Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Powertrain Specific Forum > 335 Series Engine Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Half White/Half Black Spark Plugs
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Half White/Half Black Spark Plugs

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
73grantorinoB View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 07-November-2023
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73grantorinoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Half White/Half Black Spark Plugs
    Posted: 20-December-2024 at 4:03PM
Evening everyone,

I've encountered something strange across all my spark plugs. For context I have a 1973 Gran Torino with the 351C 2V and is completely stock. About 2 months ago I did the first tune up on the car since I got it, and changed the spark plugs. When I took the old ones out I saw half of the electrode and insulator was white and the other half was black. This was present on all 8 plugs.

Today, I decided to do a compression test on the engine (I got 125 on all 8 cylinders with a cold engine). When I took out the relatively new plugs, I saw the same pattern I saw in the old ones, which makes me think there's something wrong, potentially in the heads?

Has anyone has everyone seen this before or have any idea what could be causing this? Thanks everyone!

Here is a picture I took of the plugs:

Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-December-2024 at 11:13PM
Looks like a bit too much oil in the chambers, culprits could be valve seals, rings, pcv system or possibly an intake manifold/gasket issue. Hope this helps
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
Rockatansky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30-July-2010
Location: On The Road
Status: Offline
Points: 6398
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-December-2024 at 5:18AM
US 2V's are open chamber so not much shrouding as there would be in a closed chamber, and they don't pattern the plugs like that anyway. completely stock as in never been cracked open ever? i'm leaning toward valve guides and the seals are crumbled out. a little shade on the plugs i'm not worried about but the implications are disastrous. worn guides and stock valves lead to a dropped valve or valve head separation. the worn guide allows the valve to land on the seat out of position exerting awkward pressure where the valve stem and valve head are joined together by friction welding. enough awkward pressure and the friction weld fails and the valve head comes loose in the chamber. all sorts of damage, it can even punch a window through the cylinder wall. when my 1st Cleveland pulled this stunt, the valve stem got loose from the keepers and slid down the guide acting like a punch press making little slugs of piston material. real cool

bone stock 73 that's never been apart? guess what time it is! nice even compression at 125 on all cylinders, you can get away with cleaning out the oil pan, new oil pick-up screen, timing set & cylinder head rebuild. the important thing is to get rid of the stock valves! replace with 1 piece stainless steel single groove and locks / retainers to suit. the stock 'multi-groove' retainers won't work with single groove locks

and now i feel bad for you because you're gonna find the cam & lifters are shot too, and it's near impossible to get a hydraulic flat tappet cam through break-in these days.
the only lifters i hear about being recommended are Johnson Hylift and Rhodes


this is why you clean the pan & replace the pick-up screen





Edited by Rockatansky - 21-December-2024 at 5:24AM
72 GT Ute
   
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 3445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-December-2024 at 12:09PM
Ditto, it looks like a little too much oil in the cylinders, but it's little enough that it's burned off of half the plugs. Valve seals and guides are logical to expect being bad.

How many mile does it have on the engine, and how much oil does it use?
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
aquartlow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19-December-2011
Location: Summerfield, Fl
Status: Offline
Points: 2341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-December-2024 at 1:13PM
Since the black/oil stain is only on half or just less than half the plug's insulator, it could point to an intake manifold gasket leak, pulling oil/oil vapor from the valley. This dark side of the insulator facing the intake valve, but there are lots of variables to consider and/or look at.  
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
Back to Top
73grantorinoB View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 07-November-2023
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73grantorinoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2024 at 9:04AM
Thanks Rockatansky and everyone else that replied!

Looks like I got work to do. I'm a little concerned about changing the camshaft and lifters as you said since there's very few good places to source them from. The engine seems to be running fine otherwise. Could I get away with using the old camshaft and lifters?

To answer Don's question, the odometer shows ~50k miles, but it could be ~150k. And it burns very little oil, to the point it's barely noticeable. I've maybe added 1/4 quart if not less in the past year.

I have limited space to work on the car, so if I need to pull the engine I would probably have to take it to a shop at that point. But if I can do the work without taking the engine out I can tackle the job myself.

Thanks for the help!
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 3445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2024 at 9:14AM
That's good to know the oil consumption isn't very bad. With that I'd try to work with it as long as you think the oil pickup might not be clogged. Watch the oil pressure closely, often it will be low or varying to the low side if the pickup is restricted. If you think the oil pressure might be low, try hard to stop running the engine then. It's a big job to R&R the engine to do minor things like the pan/pickup/pump, or the valve seals or springs, but fixing any oiling damage is a full scale rebuild.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
73grantorinoB View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 07-November-2023
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73grantorinoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2024 at 9:40AM
Got it, I'll throw an oil pressure gauge on it to see where it's at. If I'm doing a head job I might as well go into the pan as Rockatansky said and replace the pickup screen to be on the safe side. If I decide to stick with the old cam and lifters for now, would it be safer to keep most of the valve train with the original components (springs, rockers, etc.) other than new valves or should I replace with all new parts?
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 3445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2024 at 12:12PM
If the old cam and lifters are in good shape, then they would be fine to keep using. As Rockatansky said too, if the heads have the original valves in them, then it would be smart to replace all of those to be eliminate the possibility of the valve tips(OEM) coming apart, "dropping a valve." High rpm is the biggest cause of the old valve issues, but they are all risky to leave in.

You can keep using the stock rockers, pushrods, and lifters if they are okay and kept marked, to identify where they go on the cam. Almost all of the original parts are very reliable for a long time, the few exceptions are the valves and timing chain. The normal wear parts need to be changed because they are all way too old at this point; the valve seals and front/rear main seals etc. In the old days a new oil pump was an  easy choice, only $25 for Melling. Now everything is high, you have to reevaluate parts now due to costs; save what you can.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
73grantorinoB View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: 07-November-2023
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73grantorinoB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-December-2024 at 6:04PM
Looks like that's the way I'll be going then, thanks Don. I'm trying to keep costs down as I'm looking to do a full engine rebuild with some performance upgrades in about 2 years, so the less money I put into it now, the better. I'm just trying to get it running good without any disasters happening before then.

Thanks for the all the advice, and I'll keep everyone updated on how it goes!
Back to Top
Booyah45828 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 28-February-2022
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 163
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Booyah45828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-December-2024 at 2:20AM
I'm late to the party, but in my experience half white/half black plugs is caused by oil burning and the incoming fuel charge "washing" the half of the plug clean that faces the intake valve.

Your oil consumption being low is good to hear, as the guides might not be totally shot. If this truly is original, your umbrella valve seals have surely by now disintegrated and are laying on top of the the head or in the oil pan. Pull the valve covers and see what they look like, and if so then drop the pan to check the pickup.

Your cranking compression being 125 is low, indicating wear, which is to be expected on an original engine. The fact they're all even is a good sign and likely that there's no damage, just normal wear.

If you're planning on doing a full rebuild in a few years, just reinstall the plugs and run it as is. Like you said, it runs fine, it's just got some wear to it. When rebuild time comes, you can then worry about valves/cam/lifters/etc.
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 3445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-December-2024 at 5:18AM
Ditto, the broken valve seal pieces might be the only real big worry, knowing a full build is coming soon. Given the hope to build soon, I'd pull both valve covers and clean out the valve seal debris. Note the drain holes are close to 1/2" in size, so the above picture of a clogged oil pickup is somewhat common. Use a quality VC gasket and a smear of Ultra Black RTV to seal them well.

Keep an eye on the dash oil pressure light or gauge. A dummy light will trigger below 10psi, so you hopefully never see that light.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
Booyah45828 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 28-February-2022
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 163
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Booyah45828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2024 at 2:22AM
Yeah, I should have elaborated more.

If you see plastic pieces laying up top, or don't see the seals through the springs, chances are they're lying in the bottom of the pan and you need to drop the pan to clean it out along with the pickup. If you pull the covers, and see the umbrella seals are fine or they have been replaced/upgraded. Then bolt the covers back on and leave the pan alone.

I'm not saying the valves aren't an issue, because they definitely are. I just don't think it's worth pulling the heads to replace the valves and then do a partial rebuild on this thing, when you'll be doing a total rebuild on it in a few years. If you're going to pull the heads to address the valves, pull the whole engine and have it rebuilt. Flat top pistons, arp rod nuts, Heads rebuilt(or upgraded), intake swapped, cam swap, the whole 9 yards.

I'm on the fence regarding cams. I like flat tappets, I've got a new one on the shelf and a set of trend edm lifters for it. I just know numerous guys have had issues recently, and the past 25 years. I used to always believe the problem came from substandard equipment and the wrong motor oil. Now I don't think you can get anything flat tappet that isn't substandard. If asked today I'd likely suggest hydraulic roller, but I haven't found a shelf grind that I can say that I love for a 2v. There were some lunati grinds that were close(lun-20320712), but lunati seems to be getting out of the cam game.
Back to Top
72 RS 351 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 04-September-2014
Location: Knoxville TN
Status: Offline
Points: 3445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-December-2024 at 4:05AM
I never remember many stories of cam issues in the 70's and 80's, just the normal(then) issue of a new cam or engine install, and improper break in procedures. There is a way to break in a cam, and it's not the way it's been done since roller cams began.

Before roller cams, everyone knew that break in required special care at start up. You start it and never let it idle, not for at least 20 minutes. That procedure has been forgotten, and I'll bet current flat tappet issues are mostly from no initial break in at all, or improper oil for a flat tappet cam.

The oil choice is a main reason I don't ever want to have a flat tappet cam. Now you can hardly find a proper oil like that, all oils are made without the needed additives for a flat tappet cam. I don't want to have trouble getting oil, or worrying about it, ever. A roller cam lets you start an engine without any break in procedure, only the rings need some extra care during the first 500 or so miles. After that, you can use any oil you like for the given weather/climate.

So note that a roller cam will cost you an extra $200+, then you have to choose roller lifters which are very expensive depending on which type you go with. The new pushrods are not bad, but in the end you are looking at $1100 for the roller cam parts. It's a little less if you choose the spider bracket conversion and simple OEM style lifters.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.