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Eliteman76 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06-January-2024 at 11:16AM
Figure I'd start as this has become enough of an issue for the 72-79 cars, but going back to my complaints about service repair parts being obsoleted/discontinued for our cars.

Does anyone have a current listing of part numbers? Moog was the defacto standard but these days so many off the wall brands in a white box with a brand name sleeve covering the white box.

Engine mounts come to mind and after my experience are an instant trigger for me with my recent engine swap.

I'd like to update this as we have the parts but post up if you have found sources for 2024.
There are also a couple web sites out there you REALLY have to be wary of these days as they are legit scam web sites. 

Additional thoughts: how close are the Crown Vics to the Torino Chassis when it comes to the front suspension / steering. I am talking the 80-91 era cars that were still traditional 302 / 351W cars (if you were lucky to have a CVPI pursuit special) 

Pitman arms:
Ford box
Saginaw box

Idler Arms

Ball Joints

Rear Control Arm Bushings
Upper
standard UCA
Max Handling Competition "diamond" UCA 
Note: 
(Energy Suspension makes max Handling bushings - need to burn out factory bushings and re-use shells as far as I am aware.) Can't find notes right now with part #'s

Lower
Standard LCA

Sway Bar bushings:
Front
1-1/8"
7/8"

Rear
5/8"
Larger rear bar 1-1/8" (later 70's cougars/Police)

Other specific items/parts that should be added?

I thought there was a post made years ago on part numbers but for the life of me, it's like I am walking around a Walmart in the isle I need, and walk past the item I want 4-5 times and give up on the search...

EDIT as of 1-31-2024:
I am looking for a couple used pitman arms 72-76 Torino.
For the ford box and Saginaw power steering boxes.
I’ve been working with a company for the purposes of seeing about rebuilding them due to all the recent issues of our pitman arms not being available.
They are asking for samples. Company is Rare Parts. I am working with Glen.
I am going to post this in all the Torino (Facebook) groups I deal with but if anyone happens to have any parts cars or pitman arms they have pulled from 72-76 Torino/Montego
72-79 Ranchero
74-76 Elite/Cougar
77-79 Ranchero
77-78 Cougar/Thunderbird/LTD2
I know there is a different forging for the full size cars.
The long of the short the reason there are no new pitman arms is the forging a used have long since been used up and no new tooling exists to make more.

(Edit - it was pointed out AutoKrafters is showing a new option - need to call on this tomorrow)
So our only option these days is to take your arm, have it sent out and the pivot replaced in a remanufactured process.
I will be posting this up to keep track of details so it does not get lost, as things so easily get lost on Facebook.
Feel free to also message me directly if you can help.
I am after specifically 1-2 pitman arms to fit the:
Ford power steering box
Saginaw steering box (Saginaw uses a different arm from my understanding).

I’m looking for my old parts catalogs detailing steering parts, but I don’t recall the part numbers from moog/trw.
Will update as I get info.

*EDIT* 3-17-24
I am a bit behind on this, but for those wanting to get something reconditioned, here is the contact information for Glen at Rare Parts:

Glen Knowles <glen@rareparts.com>

Wed, Jan 31, 1:34 PM
Hello Andrew,

I just got a response back from our Manufacturing Team. They would like to see if you have a Pitman Arm for your 1972-1976 Gran Torino with Power Steering that you can send in so we can determine what components are needed in order to offer a rebuild service for this arm. Please let me know if you have a used spare.

Please let me know and I can let you know how and where to send it in.


Thank you,

GLEN KNOWLES
CUSTOMER ACCOUNT SPECIALIST

Rare Parts Inc


Edited by Eliteman76 - 17-March-2024 at 9:43AM
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Good conversation thread, to solve some parts issues and post updated results.


I can't add any details to this, but I just sold my last 95 Crown Vic to a neighbor. It had the 1997 CVPI steering box I swapped into it, those had a really quick ratio, much faster than the pre-97 models. I loved it for steering fast in tight spaces, mailboxes, and turning around.

The 90's VC's were all front steer I believe, so I bet none of those have usable steering parts for the mid 70's rear steer Fords. I wish they could work, those are obviously common and the police versions are top notch.
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I recently got a NOS pitman arm for a power steering 351 cleveland car. Its night now for me but tomorrow ill look at it and give you all the part number thats on it

Edit: The part number is D70C-3590-AB


Edited by Bubba_Clide - 21-January-2024 at 7:08AM
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hopefully it doesn't come to this, over not being able to replace a worn Pitman, or the Borgeson Pitmans may be a solution IDK? Compton posted this to a member's project thread, i'll just drop it here in it's entirety so as not to omit something pertinent, and a direct link to the Borgeson Pitman arm page

https://www.borgeson.com/Pitman-Arms/

Originally posted by Compton Compton wrote:

Just saw in your post from April that you were on the hunt for a better steering box…got a Borgeson 800128 in mine…bolt in…14 to 1 ratio…some places say it’s for 71-73 mustang but the Borgeson site lists it as Ford Cars 65-77…bit more pricey than adapting junk yard bits but easy install…
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Edited details.

Spoke with Glen at Rare Parts this week, and they are looking for 1-2 samples. 
Should be able to offer a rebuild service. 
Need to send in samples for their review.
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Good to see on that box.  Betting it's using the Saginaw pitman arm. 
With that said, another thing that comes to mind, is in talking to Rare Parts, they do a lot of Pitman Arm reconditioning for the mustang markets and there were a lot of times they would see Mustang steering boxes come in with full size ford pitman arms. 
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I have the worn out pitman arm out of my 73 GTS. It came off of my FORD steering box. Id be willing to send it in as long as it doesnt cost a fortune and I get it back.
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Thanks for looking into this Andy.

The Saginaw and Ford steering boxes use the same pitman arm. Only the manual steering cars had a different pitman arm.

Here are some OEM part numbers:

D2OZ-3590-A 1972-74 (manual steering only, does not interchange with P/S)
D2OZ 3590-B 1972-1974 (P/S cars only)
D7OZ 3590-A 1975 - 1976 (P/S only)
D7OZ 3590-B 1977-79 (P/S only)

For the aftermarket parts, 1972-76 is listed as one part number, so I am not sure why Ford had an updated part number for 1975 and 1976.  I am assuming based on the D7OZ part number it was an updated arm. The aftermarket lists the 1977-79 arm as a different part number.  I am not sure what is different, but there was obviously some revision that took place, as otherwise the aftermarket would have made one part to cover 1972-79. 

Here are the old Moog part numbers, which shows the 1972-76 as one part number and the 1977-79 as another.  Like I said, this suggests there is some significant difference on the 1977-79 pitman arm, otherwise the aftermarket would have consolidated it to one part number.

1972-76 - K8217

This website shows it also fits the larger Thunderbirds and Lincoln Mark IVs of that time.


1977-79:  K8256

This website shows it fits the 1977-79 Mark V as well as LTDII, Thunderbird, Cougar, Ranchero, etc:
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I wonder how that 14:1 box would feel?

I like the Lares 841 box, and they are selling brand new 841's as well due to lake of parts. 
Only thing I have ever had issue with is the 841 at speed can be twitchy at times. 
Wonder how many turns lock to lock that Borg box is?
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Does anyone know the ratio of the 841 box?  I don't think Lares ever published it.  

My 12.7:1 Saginaw felt a little twitchy at times, until I had the T-bar updated.  The stiffer T-bar gave a ton more road feel and the twitchiness was completely gone.  That is what I like about the Saginaw box, they are easy to tune.  

I think 14:1 would be fine too, it just depends on how Borgson tuned the box.  Once I got the road feel dialed in on mine, 12.7:1 was definitely not too quick.  Keep in mind the linkage on the Torinos increase the actual steering ratio over the box steering ratio.
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Borgeson box is 3 1/4 turns lock to lock
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I found D3OZ 3A635-F and -A Power Steering Kit Parts list also lists D3OZ 3590-B Army assy - Pitman.

It looks like there is a -A, -B, -C, -D, -E, and -F for the full D3OZ kits. 

-A and -F list the D3OZ 3590-B Army assy - Pitman

-B, -C, -D, and -E list D2OZ 3590-B Arm assy - Pitman

Does anyone know the difference between these, or is it just part #s kits being superseded?
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Originally posted by spriegel spriegel wrote:

I found D3OZ 3A635-F and -A Power Steering Kit Parts list also lists D3OZ 3590-B Army assy - Pitman.

It looks like there is a -A, -B, -C, -D, -E, and -F for the full D3OZ kits. 

-A and -F list the D3OZ 3590-B Army assy - Pitman

-B, -C, -D, and -E list D2OZ 3590-B Arm assy - Pitman

Does anyone know the difference between these, or is it just part #s kits being superseded?


They may not be the same.  I don't see those parts listings in my parts catalog, so I cannot confirm one way or another.  Just because the only the letter at the end is different doesn't necessarily mean they are the same part or a revised part.  For example the 1972 Pitman arms show the manual pitman arm as D2OZ 3590-A, and the P/S as D2OZ 3590-B.  So only the letter is different, but they are completely different pitman arms that will not interchange.
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Just took the power steering box off of my 1972 GTS and the part number stamped on it is;
D20A-3B153
It originally had a 429 engine that was swapped out with a 351C, but I don't think that matters
It has the Ford integral power steering gear box.
Does that part number sound right to anyone?
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D = 1970's
2 = year of the decade, 1972
O = Fairlane (1962-68, Torino (1969-76), LTD II (1977-79), LN7 (1982-83)
A = Light Truck Engineering Division

3B153, this portion of the number is the same for every similar part. see here,




Edited by Rockatansky - 23-February-2024 at 12:30PM
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Originally posted by dreamzhappen dreamzhappen wrote:

Just took the power steering box off of my 1972 GTS and the part number stamped on it is;
D20A-3B153
It originally had a 429 engine that was swapped out with a 351C, but I don't think that matters
It has the Ford integral power steering gear box.
Does that part number sound right to anyone?


That part number, D2OA 3B153 is listed in the parts catalog as the original part number, ie the factory part original to the car.  The other part numbers I have listed in this thread are the replacement part numbers.  FWIW, the catalog lists the original part numbers as follows:

D20A 3B153 - AA
D20A 3B153 - AB
D20A 3B153 - BA
D30A 3B153 - BB
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Thank you all for your help, it's so nice to be able to take advantage of all of you knowledge. Now all I have to do is find one for my car. From what I have able to come up with I think the Moog K8217 and the Delphi TA5949 are the replacements for power steering, although none of the sites that list these parts (out of stock of course) state whether they are for Power Steering.
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In general, if it's out of stock, it's the power steering one. The one I got in January 2022 matches the Moog number but mine is Precision Chassis (O'Reilly brand).

I'm guessing some other common vehicle must use the same arm as manual steering Gran Torinos, considering that I'd venture to guess that most of our cars came with power steering as standard equipment. Not sure why else the less commonly needed part for our cars is plentiful but the more commonly needed part is unobtainable. 
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Originally posted by Inkara1 Inkara1 wrote:

Not sure why else the less commonly needed part for our cars is plentiful but the more commonly needed part is unobtainable. 


probably because the NOS New Old Stock is still in the supply chain, as they're bought up they will also go unobtainium

i'll have to get one before that happens
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I would think Rock is correct, they are all NOS, not being produced at all.  The PS pitman arm supply likely got used up quickly due to the PS being far more common on these cars. 

What I would like to know is what is different about the 77-79 pitman arm.  When I was searching earlier, I came across a couple of NOS 77-79 arms.  We need someone who has a parts car to compare the two. Wasn't there some parting out a Cougar?
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Rare Parts said they had bought up the remaining stock of Moog and TRW on the pitman arms when they were still available. 

Issues is the castings that are not being made.

As fas as info. I am going to update the contact info for Glen at Rare parts so whom ever has a factory pitman arm or aftermarket arm, can get with Rare parts and send into them for a rebuild. 

The issue we have currently is no companies are making the forged part for the pitman arm. 
That only leaves either finding NOS, or sending an arm off to be reconditioned.

Rare Parts has been reconditioning arms for the Mustang market for decades.


Glen Knowles <glen@rareparts.com>

Wed, Jan 31, 1:34 PM

Hello Andrew,

I just got a response back from our Manufacturing Team. They would like to see if you have a Pitman Arm for your 1972-1976 Gran Torino with Power Steering that you can send in so we can determine what components are needed in order to offer a rebuild service for this arm. Please let me know if you have a used spare.

Please let me know and I can let you know how and where to send it in.


Thank you,

GLEN KNOWLES
CUSTOMER ACCOUNT SPECIALIST

Rare Parts Inc
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I reached out to Burgeson and got a pretty cut and dried response:

Me: Good Afternoon, I was looking at the 800128 steering box and saw it's a 14:1 box. Is this like the old Saginaw SPAT series box 71-73 mustangs used with the variable ratio? or just a fixed 14:1. 

Borg tech: It's about 3 ½ to 3 ¾ turn lock to lock with a 14:1 ratio. Most steering racks are much faster ratios than that and they are seldom twitchy. 

We don’t make pitman arms here either
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Has anyone already tried converting a 73 Toriuno'/Ranchero to a Borgeson transmission? Which Pitman arm is needed for this, what needs to be converted? I hope I don't need the original Pitman arm, otherwise the swap doesn't make much sense.
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I have the 800128 in mine…direct bolt in…uses the original steering linkages so same pitman arm…
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What a shame, I was hoping I could work with something other than the original, 
because it's no longer available.
I don't know how the problem will be solved either, because in the future some
Rancheros and Torinos will never be on the roads again if there is no solution.
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The only options now seem to be getting a good used pitman arm, or having an original rebuilt.  I don't know if there is a enough demand for an aftermarket company to start making new forgings.  That said, there still are some NOS parts out there but they are hard to find.

It does seem like there are some 1977-79 pitman arms still available. 





Again, there are minor differences in the pitman arms, but not sure if or how it would affect the steering geometry compared to a 1972-76 arm.  It appears that all 1972-76 cars use the same idler arm.

Here is some info Inkara dug up:

Originally posted by Inkara1 Inkara1 wrote:

They're just a little bit different. Specs below from Rare Parts. Top one is for 1972 Torino, bottom is for 1979 T-bird.
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Maybe this is a rookie question, but could a machine shop install a heim joint or something in a pitman arm?
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I imagine a machine shop could get something to work. IMO I'd modify the drag link for the heim vs the pitman arm, but if the arm is forged it should be weldable and thus modifiable. There are numerous race cars that use gearboxes and heims in their steering systems so there's no real reason it can't be done.

I think the answer though is the rebuild service offered by rare parts. I know nobody likes to have a car down and undrivable, but until a business could accumulate enough usable cores to have rebuilt and then keep in stock, waiting on the process seems like it's unavoidable.

I really doubt any corporation will pour money into forging new arms. Too little demand IMO to make it profitable.
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Hi everyone,

I built a small matrix for Power Steering with the P/N from the Ford 1973-1979 parts catalog.

It lists D20Z 3590-B for most of the kits, but two engines have D30Z 3590-B (250 6 cylinder and 351 4B).  The Catalog lists Torino and LTD II in the same matrix.

Power Steering Installation Kits








Year Model Cylinder Engine Pump Kit Pitman Arm
73 B 6 250 D30Z 3A635-A D30Z 3590-B
73 B-A/C 8 302 D30Z 3A635-C D20Z 3590-B
73 B-W/O A/C 8 302 D30Z 3A635-B D20Z 3590-B
73 B-A/C 8 351 NA NA
73 B-W/O A/C 8 351-2b D30Z 3A635-E D20Z 3590-B
73 B-W/O A/C 8 351w-2B D30Z 3A635-D D20Z 3590-B
73 B-W/O A/C 8 351-4B D30Z 3A635-F D30Z 3590-B
73 B 8 400,429,460 NA NA
74 B-W/O A/C 8 302 D40Z 3A635-B D20Z 3590-B
75 B 8 ALL NA NA


Chris
Fairview, PA
'1973 Ford Gran Torino
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Points: 6780 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-September-2024 at 6:27AM
It might be worthwhile for anyone parting out a Torino or related car to save the pitman arm.  As a collective, we should try to collect viable cores.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

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