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ValleyGTS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ValleyGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rear suspension
    Posted: 30-May-2022 at 4:03PM
Hey, has anyone out there ever replaced their rear control arms with aftermarket ones?  I've looked at ones from Spohn Performance  and PMT Fabrication. Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayner315 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2022 at 3:25AM
I think there are some threads about that? Maybe also try searching 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2022 at 6:21AM
Several on this board have used the Spohn arms and reported they are good.  IMO, they are the best option, as they not only incorporate a spherical bearing to help minimize suspension bind, but they also allow for adjustable pinion angle.  OEM control arm bushings also allow for pinion angle adjustment (very minor amount), but none of the other aftermarket arms or bushings do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2022 at 12:33PM
i can't help you with the rear arms but i wonder if the PMT Fab strut rods are compatible with the Little Shop spherical bushings?

https://pmtfabrication.com/product/1965-1974-ford-galaxie-strut-rod-kit

https://www.littleshopmfg.com/strut-rod-isolators-for-ford-cars/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2022 at 1:45PM
65-74 galaxie strut rod is different from the 72-79 intermediate part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2022 at 10:30AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

65-74 galaxie strut rod is different from the 72-79 intermediate part.


that's what i thought but PMT Fab lists Torino in the applications ... ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2025 at 7:24AM
Sorry to dig up an old thread. I've been trying to fix a freeway speed rumble/drone for a long time now, and since new U-joints didn't fix it, and changing the rear end pumpkin didn't fix it (I at least swapped ratios, so it wasn't a waste), and changing one rear bearing that was starting to lose its grease and verifying the other bearing is good didn't fix it, and putting on an original Ford transmission counterweight that attaches to the tailshaft made it a little quieter but didn’t fix it, pinion angle is about the last thing it could be.

I previously replaced all rear bushings with the black Energy Suspension poly bushings.

Is going to the Spohn arms the ONLY way I can adjust pinion angle?

If so, since it appears that only the lower arms adjust, would I be OK with getting just the lower arms and keeping my current uppers with Energy poly bushings? Or would I end up kicking myself if I don't get the Spohn uppers too? I obviously won't be taking the station wagon on the track.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2025 at 12:19PM
The factory bushings in the lower control arms have eccentrics built into the bushings to allow adjustment of the pinion angle.  Unfortunately, these are not available in the aftermarket.  So, the only option would be adjustable lower control arms like Spohns.  The upper arms would not be necessary, however, the OEM arms do not have the spherical bushing like the Sphon upper arms (it has one spherical and one poly bushing).  So, my only concern would be that the OEM upper control arms might not articulate as well as the Spohn arms, but I can't see that causing issues.

Before you invest in new Spohn arms, have you tried to measure the pinion angle?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2025 at 12:53PM
I'm planning to do that within the next few days. I would need to do it even with the Spohn arms because I'd need to know what I'm adjusting it to. I saw elsewhere on the board that I can measure the angle of the starter on the engine to get the tailshaft angle, which seems easier than trying to measure closer to the tailshaft.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2025 at 6:35PM
So the tool I bought is pretty cheap, so it's hard to get the exact pinion angle, but as best as I can figure out, the pinion is leaning back by about 2 degrees more than the tailshaft is. So unless I could put a few washers between the transmission crossmember and the frame to get the tailshaft leaning back a degree or so more, I guess Spohn arms it is.

I will say I don't remember having that rumble/drone on the one trip I took with it before I replaced all the rear bushings, but also, it's possible I was too distracted with other things to remember it.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2025 at 4:08AM
have you separated whether the rumble is on accel, coast or decel, some or all?

can you put it up on stands and have a helper either run it up through the gears or go underneath and identify where the rumble is coming from? 

i just went back up & re-read, this time the poly bushings stood out. 
any other poly, transmission or engine mounts? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2025 at 6:58AM
Engine and transmission mounts are rubber. Had this noise issue before replacing them as well. Front suspension also has all new rubber bushings installed in 2023. The poly bushings were installed in the rear in 2023, and I went poly due to issues getting rubber for some of the needed bushings.

I'd replaced the U-joints with non-greasable ones for preventative maintenance, but the one on the rear never really seemed to loosen up, so I replaced that one with a greasable unit, and it seemed better for like a mile. I more recently replaced the front one with a greasable one, and that one moves more easily, but didn't solve the noise. Rotating the tires made no difference in the noise or where it appears to come from. I then put the counterweight on the transmission, which made it a little quieter (only a little). I also swapped the 3.00 open differential to a 3.50 limited slip, and already mentioned replacing one rear bearing and the other testing good.

In general, it makes the noise anytime I'm between 3,000 and 3,400 RPM in top gear, whether accelerating, holding speed, or decelerating, particularly on flat land or downhill. Less so going uphill. Switching rear ends changed the speeds I hear the noise but not the engine RPMs.

I'm just thinking it's got to be the pinion angle since I don't remember the noise before putting in the new bushings, and it's the same driveshaft. At some point before I got the car, someone swapped in the rear from a 1974 Gran Torino Sport into my 1972 wagon, so it has the big bearings and a swaybar. The upper control arms are definitely the standard ones and not the competition ones, if that makes a difference.

I'm currently going on the info posted bt "72 RancheroGT" here:
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2025 at 10:30AM
wouldn't hurt to verify & tune the pinion angle but i'm thinking it's the poly bushings themselves.

poly bushings have been available to OEM's for ages but they don't use them AFAIK

because they transmit noise & vibration 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2025 at 10:51PM
I wonder if whoever setup the rear gear verified the index marks of the gears(if applicable) since a 3.50 gear set would be considered non-hunting, as they could be "timed". 9 Inch Gear Timing | Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter.jenerette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 2:02AM
If you're suspecting pinion angle, make sure to verify the transmission mount height. There are multiple mounts all the way to 2005 (maybe even newer) that will "fit" but are of varying heights. Pickup mounts are up to 0.75" taller than the Torino and depending on trans/engine/car model the bolts align, but are of various heights. 
(Too tall of a mount may put undue stress on the engine mounts as well, had a buddy who was blowing right engine mounts every month or two, and turns out he had the wrong trans mount installed.)

Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyntre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 3:23AM
NVH -

NOISE
VIBRATION 
HARSHNESS 
 It’s a real thing , and hard polyurethane bushings will amplify 
these conditions on a car that’s driven on typical roads . 
Polyurethane works great on a vehicle built for competition where all out suspension control is required. But on a daily driver , running through potholes / over railroad tracks , any usual crappy road it will rattle your teeth loose !  
 I would start with getting rid  of those bushings . New u joints in a pro balanced driveshaft ! 
Drive angles of the front and rear u joints need to match , doesn’t really matter what the angle is , but if the front is 3 degrees ,.the rear needs to be 3degrees . 
Is this a big horsepower/ torque build ?
Or just a stock  200 horse motor ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Booyah45828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 4:54AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

I wonder if whoever setup the rear gear verified the index marks of the gears(if applicable) since a 3.50 gear set would be considered non-hunting, as they could be "timed". 9 Inch Gear Timing | Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum


Definitely something to look at, especially with poly bushings as ANY noise in the axle will transmit through those bushings.

In my experience driveline's won't make noise unless they're several degrees out. If it's a degree or two I don't think you'll notice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 5:08AM
It's a 2V 351C but with an aluminum four-barrel intake, likely an Edelbrock 2750 knockoff, so not huge power. A prior owner swapped the transmission for a C6.

The trans mount is one off Rock Auto listed as for a 1972 Torino with 400 V8 and C6, so it should be the right size. I still had the noise with the old mount, so I don't think the mount is an issue.

I understand stiffer bushings transmitting more vibration, so I'd expect a stiffer ride, especially since I also put on new springs (listed for a 1975 Torino station wagon) and it has KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, but it seems that it shouldn't be making that particular noise/vibration, right? Does anyone else with poly rear bushings get that noise at freeway speeds?

The rear end is one my dad bought online over 20 years ago for his 1967 Ranchero, but it just sat in his garage, and now that he's 75, he figures he's never going to get it installed, so I might as well take it now instead of waiting to inherit it. But I also had this noise with the prior 3.00 open rear end, at the same engine RPMs.

It seems I have a 2-degree difference between the tailshaft angle and pinion angle, as best as I can figure with the cheap tool.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 5:29AM
If y'all do want me to try rubber bushings, would I get most of the benefit by doing just the lower arm? One of the upper arm bushings is only available from Rare Parts, for $178.28 each (I'd need two), and it's out of stock now anyway. That and the other bushings needed meant using the Energy poly bushings was literally 1/4 the price. I can get lower arm rubber bushings easily enough, but not the upper arm ones.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Booyah45828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 5:43AM
Your noise could be caused by a host of things. The poly bushings are why you're hearing it. It's odd that the noise was made before and after a gear swap, so maybe disregard checking the gear set. 2 degrees is hardly anything, and with the poly bushings I don't imagine you're getting any flex difference between accel/decel. You can adjust the u-joint angles if you want, there might be enough play in the bolt holes on the control arms to get 2 degrees of movement. Otherwise upgrade to the spohn arms for the adjustability.

You keep saying 3k-3400 rpm, does it do it in 2nd gear at those rpms? Or is it more vehicle speed related?

Maybe your good wheel bearing isn't so good?

I worked on a 09 mustang once with poly rear bushings, and the tires on that were what caused the hum. When they say poly bushings transmit everything with nvh, they truly do transmit everything.

I bought a set of chassis ears years ago, I don't use them often, but for things like this they're invaluable when tracing down driving noises. They might be worth trying out here. I see you can buy them on ebay pretty cheap, cheaper then spohn arms are anyways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyntre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 5:57AM
I’ve got the SPOHN rear arms on my 75 
Montego . It’s an investment in the overall car . Are you going to keep the car and enjoy it for years to come ?
If yes , then invest in some new technology 
and don’t look back . I’m very pleased with the quality of their product and it rides wonderfully. I’ve also put PMT 
front suspension in it , coilovers and all !
Again , it’s a keeper car for me , and someday the investment I made will make the car more appealing and valuable to the next guy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 11:48AM
So I went ahead and ordered the Spohn arms. Got the uppers too, since reading up on experiences Foxbody owners had with theirs, it sounds like there are fewer problems when not mixing-and-matching components. I should get them in 1-8 days (they're in Pennsylvania and I'm in California, so probably closer to 8 days). I should be able to get them all installed in one night.

I do wonder if putting brand new springs listed for a 1975 wagon (mine's a 1972 wagon) raised things up a bit and affected the pinion angle.

It only does it in third gear at 3,000-3,400 RPM, so just when the driveshaft and U-joints are spinning at that speed.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2025 at 12:07PM
Originally posted by Inkara1 Inkara1 wrote:

It only does it in third gear at 3,000-3,400 RPM, so just when the driveshaft and U-joints are spinning at that speed.


sounds like (pun intended) you're describing a harmonic, brings me back to the poly bushings again.

have you ever seen the pinion yokes with the rubber isolated damper weight on them? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Booyah45828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2025 at 6:33AM
Supposedly poly bushings can be greased to fix squeaking and nvh, it's why some are impregnated with graphite.

I have seen those pinion yokes with dampers, most commonly on aam axles in one ton pickups. Never seen one on a 9 inch. Maybe have the driveshaft balanced? Just spit-balling here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-June-2025 at 6:19PM
So I got the Spohn arms in and put them on. Finally got to test it tonight. I can still get it to rumble on deceleration from 70-ish mph to around 60, like when coming up to a stoplight on the highway, but it doesn't rumble cruising  at 70-75 mph on flat ground anymore like it did before. And the deceleration rumble is *a little* quieter. What surprised me was how much quieter road noise in general is at all speeds. It's a huge difference. Way, way quieter. That's going to make long trips across the state a lot less tiring, I think.

The poly bushings were pretty tight against the mounts, I found, so that probably transmitted noise.

Is the deceleration rumble indicative of a need to adjust pinion angle more? They're supposed to be adjusted to factory default as thry come, and after I finished the install, I checked and found the rear end is leaning back one slightly less than before. I'd like to know if changing pinion angle would solve that specific thing before I put blue Loctite on the jam nut threads as Spohn recommends. The engine/trans are leaning back by 3.5-4 degrees, and the pinion is leaning back by 2.5-3 degrees now, and was at 4-4.5 with the old setup.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-June-2025 at 8:27AM
What is the angle of the driveshaft on each end, opposing angles? If you mean the pinion is tilted upward towards the front by 2.5-3 degrees, then it sounds like a difference of about one degree. The ideal is to match those, make them the same as close as possible. The trans output shaft and pinion shaft should be parallel, one degree off likely is not an issue.

How tight are the two shafts, trans and pinion, how much can they move sideways? Those should be fairly very tight, the trans is a rare thing to wear and have that wear and be too loose.

My 98 Explorer recently lost the pinion bearings, I discovered it when hunting for a whine. Before loosening the driveshaft(aiming to do the u-joints), I found the pinion shaft very loose, too much play. I drove it like that knowing I couldn't set up the gears, so I swapped the entire rear. It ate the whole diff, bearings and gears, though they looked excellent when I was checking and doing the gear oil. It took two months to kill it with the pinion bearings worn enough to make noise.

So take good care of the bearings in the diff, at least the 9" you can remove and have serviced, the 8.8 is not that way, it has to be done in the rear itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Booyah45828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-June-2025 at 8:44AM
I'm not following the leaning back either.

The trans output should point down and the pinion should be pointing up the same amount. If you have sloppy bushings or a lot of torque movement, you can err on the side of not pointing the pinion up so much, so that it will match the trans down amount while under load. 

Like Don said, a total degree or two off won't matter. Now if you're trans is down and your pinion is down, that would make you'd be close to 7 degrees out, and yes that would likely make noise, especially on decel as the load would push it down further, not by much, but that is the direction it heads on decel. The ring and pinion mesh could also cause a decel noise FYI, I don't remember if you said it was a new or used gearset that you installed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-June-2025 at 9:39AM
By "leaning back," I meant the axle leaning back, which pushes the pinion input up. So if you draw a line through the centerline of the pinion, the line would slope down from the front of the car to the back, so someone surfing on top of that line would be leaning back by a few degrees. So it's parallel to the transmission output shaft within a degree or two.

The gearset was a rebuild my dad bought 20+ years ago that sat in his garage until he gave it to me. The pumpkin has a C5 part number, if I remember correctly, so it's from some 1965 vehicle originally. The ring gear has D2TW 421C A [star] 3 stamped on it (I took a picture of that so I could reference it just now). Otherwise, I don't know what's been changed on it, but I would assume bearings.

So you're saying if instead of the pinion sticking up 2.5-3 degrees, if I set it to stick up by 2-2.5 instead, it should help? (It’s hard to get more precise than that with a cheap tool that I have to take video of to read because I'm supposed to measure it with the car's weight on its tires, which keeps me from being able to read straight-on, and parallax would skew my reading from an angle while lying on the ground.) I'll also grab the pinion yoke and see if I can move it around. I had to put the yoke from my old one on the new one so I wouldn't need to go buy a 1310/1330 combo U-joint, and I'm *pretty sure* I got the nut tight enough, but it wouldn't hurt to check.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-June-2025 at 11:01AM
the C5 number is likely an engineering number or casting code rather than a part number. 1965 would be the model year for which that casting was first introduced, if no changes are made that casting number continues on until a change is made or the casting itself is no longer used. there will also be a casting date code on the 3rd member housing that pinpoints exactly when it was born
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-June-2025 at 1:18PM
It looks like your driveshaft angles are probably good now, if your measurements are accurate. I'd give the rear a close inspection, pull the pinion flange good and see how much it may move in all directions. If the noise is loud enough to be from the diff, it would be nice to know what the backlash is of the gears. Typical ideal specs are in the .009" area, give or take .002" to .003", most people like the .009-.010" range. That's hard to check with a 9", to pull the chunk you want to know if the noise isn't likely something else first.

How are the axle bearings, how old are those, what did they look like the last time the rear was apart? Is there any leakage of the axle seals, are they not that old either?
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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