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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: awesome carb idea
    Posted: 26-February-2017 at 11:51AM
the one thing regarding timing that i did see was if i cracked it real fast from idle while in park that the advance when about half way and started to retard, but if i opened it a bit slower it advanced and continued through the advance range as it should! the main reason i decided to try this carb was #1 it's been sitting there in the garage staring at me for years #2 i figured a bit bigger carb may work better than the 450 holley that was on there, would stall if you jumped on it hard from an idle--it's a design flaw the advance hole is below the butterfly on those 450 mechanical 4 bbl's i've plugged and redrilled them above the butterfly--holley states not to use those particular carbs as a single carb, i'm guessing it has something to due with vacuum issues of a dual 4 tunnel ram????

 but that "flat spot" as i called it was almost unnoticeable to me, the average person probably never would have noticed it at all!!

 it runs well enough for my purposes Wink 
JOHN
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77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2017 at 6:57AM
introducing new architecture into the venturi air stream can cause significant to drastic changes in distribution characteristics. factory carbs (lots of well educated experimentation & development) have tiny little flags or tabs on the booster venturis for the purpose of controlling / modifying fuel distribution. you might think they're just left over casting flash from mfg'ing but they're there on purpose. here's a pic of some crazy big tabs, many are less that 1/8 square and are important enough to be there. notice that they're not symmetrical probably because the carb came on a dual plane intake plenum
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/basics-restoring-carburetor-performance/#06-afb-carb-rebuild-tif
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2017 at 6:43AM
what does the advance curve look like, possibly over-advancing at that point?
 
~supposedly~ George Holley said to Henry Ford that 90% of carb problems are electrical
 
FWIW i just had to return my 2003 CVPI to stock for emissions, my X-cal II programmer allows me to advance above & beyond what the tuner put in, and i usually do Wink but with the stock flash I'm getting better low end TQ i suspect due to not over-advancing
 
mods include an Aviator throttle body (slightly larger), 2004 zip tube (better bends) Marauder filter box (larger inlet) and Marauder MAF (larger diameter). Haha it makes the 4bbl flipped air cleaner lid sound coming at you LOL and mellow glass packs going away (still has cats)
 
when i put it back to Cool I'm gonna try the aftermarket tune as-is for a bit before i tweak it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2017 at 2:58AM
50cc pumps with yellow or brown cams are the way forward.....all the fuel.....all the time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrSmog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-February-2017 at 2:48PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

ok, today the weather was decent enough to road test and tune the carb today Big smile
 i did 4 or 5 runs out on the open road with the 600 DP seems good... i did notice a very slight flat spot at less than 1/4 throttle very very minor!
 so then i installed this powerblast plate and retried it 4 or 5 times again... it did seem to have a little smoother transition now!
 is it worth the $40??? IDK but what the hell i've spent money on other parts over the years that either didn't work out or never got used or scrapped or traded or sold Confused


maybe try a different accelerator pump cam? maybe one with a more aggressive ramp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-February-2017 at 1:48PM
ok, today the weather was decent enough to road test and tune the carb today Big smile
 i did 4 or 5 runs out on the open road with the 600 DP seems good... i did notice a very slight flat spot at less than 1/4 throttle very very minor!
 so then i installed this powerblast plate and retried it 4 or 5 times again... it did seem to have a little smoother transition now!
 is it worth the $40??? IDK but what the hell i've spent money on other parts over the years that either didn't work out or never got used or scrapped or traded or sold Confused
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 3:45PM
LOL... "water on a duck's back" Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 3:36PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

yeah i noticed that! well as they say if your good it's often imitated Wink LOL
 
 
Dang it Johnny, you took the high road once again. I was just stirring the pot a bit, nothing against the new member, just trying to liven the place up a bit Big smile. My wife says I am a natural instigator or is it agitator(or maybe something worse I either don't want to print or I just can't spell), I strive to do it in a good natured fun sorta way (doesn't always work out that way though) Embarrassed.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 3:26PM
yeah i noticed that! well as they say if your good it's often imitated Wink LOL



 now i remember the term... "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" Wink


Edited by californiajohnny - 25-February-2017 at 1:29PM
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 12:06PM
Hey California Johnny, looks like someone liked your avatar so much he made it his own Shocked.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 11:28AM
Here is a video in action. See how the stream fans out, better atomization. However, you do have to bend them as its running to make sure none of the fuel hits the side of the venturi. This could slow down airflow ruining any positive effects.





https://youtu.be/-tAZjyu_KKY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 11:13AM
Pushing raw fuel into the quench area thus fueling the plugs reducing efficiency. Once the plug is dead, enough fuel can build up to squeeze past the rings but most out the exhaust. It's still a hydraulic effect it just doesn't bend rods. These Thompson things should work fine for atomization, the Autolite 4100 has had one for its entire production run. If you have squirters that produce a flat stream, it's not needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 9:54AM
In order to hydraulic lock the engine with the carb jetting you'd have to be an idiot.....like running a 1050 Dominator on a stock 289

Barnaby

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 9:47AM
Fuel has to be atomized to burn properly. This realization is as old as the hills. Any "puddling" of fuel on the bottom of the intake can leak into the cylinder. If the carb is severely over jetted, it can result in a hydraulic effect or fueling the plugs. The Hotrod article below can explain.




https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotrod.com/articles/understanding-gasoline-atomization-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do/amp/?client=ms-android-att-us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 8:59AM
The squirters output is just determined by how hard you mash the pedal and force the diaphragm up with the cam....you can get some pull past but Holley make a nozzle to stop that 

I appreciate the fact it helps to atomise the fuel turning it from a jet to a mist but cant help but feel like its snake oil without some form of proper backup data. They don't post actual dyno results or show two identical motors, in two identical cars setting a time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2017 at 7:39PM
.

Edited by Richard W. - 21-February-2017 at 7:41PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2017 at 7:34PM
They are designed to have negative pressure above the squirter so it meters correctly. The Autolite 4100 4bbl come stock with them for a reason. My advise, get a 4100 and call it good. You will search for and chase the throttle response this carb will give all day. Are they expensive, yes but the last one I bought last month I paid $75 on Ebay. With rebuild kit, bushings, filter, new needles, base plate and base gaskets, I will have about $200 all in. The one I have on my 74 Gran Torino 351w (393 stroker) 600 cfm gets about 12-13 mpg in town and 16-19 highway depending on how I drive. How you drive is 50% of your mpg. On one froggy day I got 7mpg. Sue me, I was having fun! 😃

Edited by Richard W. - 21-February-2017 at 7:41PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2017 at 2:35PM
Originally posted by Grokrok Grokrok wrote:

Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.


Same here. I recall seeing products like this hyped for the performance crowd, then after people figure out it was all hype the products just faded away. The ones I recall were some sort of magnetized wire (touted as improving MPG too), and another was a screen.

I'd be interested in how this does not interfere with the bernoulli affect, a diverter plate like this seems like it would impede  a high performance carbs overall CFM.

All this part is, is a tiny airfoil over the acceleration pump squirter. It's just to turn the stream of fuel coming out of the squirter into more of a fan mist for faster atomization. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grokrok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2017 at 8:34AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.


Same here. I recall seeing products like this hyped for the performance crowd, then after people figure out it was all hype the products just faded away. The ones I recall were some sort of magnetized wire (touted as improving MPG too), and another was a screen.

I'd be interested in how this does not interfere with the bernoulli affect, a diverter plate like this seems like it would impede  a high performance carbs overall CFM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2017 at 6:13AM
Too much cam, too little spring. Bent a pushrod 4 ways, got new springs coming at some point this week.....

Just need to stick the engine back together with new gaskets after that and order some new pushrods
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 1:10PM
haven't tried it yet, been waiting on that 600DP base plate for that carb i want to try it on aftermarket base plate was on back order for the last 2 months so i called summit a couple of days ago and asked if they had the factory holley one in stock since it was only $8 more they said yes and since i've been waiting so long they would just send it to me and not pay the difference Big smile just got it today! should have been here yesterday but fedex pussed out and wouldn't deliver yesterday because of the snowy roads...roads were bare and dry BTW!! so i just got it Clap but i may not swap carbs just yet since i need to drive it down and get it realigned, just thinking don't want to be messing around on the side of the road with an untried carb! probably just paranoid but don't like taking nice cars out in crappy weather and have possible issues on top of that Embarrassed
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 9:33AM
I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 9:25AM
Originally posted by Nuggets Nuggets wrote:

I keep seeing these advertised on facebook....the price puts me off trying one, I'm just running a far more aggressive cam on my carb, bigger squirter sizes (37-42) and twin 50cc pumps. Definitely didn't stumble when I broke the engine.....
 
BBF's are fairly stout, except for the car rods, still seen them go 65-6800rpm before one (or more) was outside the block Ouch. Have you found what broke?


Edited by aquartlow - 07-February-2017 at 9:25AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 8:43AM
I keep seeing these advertised on facebook....the price puts me off trying one, I'm just running a far more aggressive cam on my carb, bigger squirter sizes (37-42) and twin 50cc pumps. Definitely didn't stumble when I broke the engine.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaertner_jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 8:26AM
Soooooo, has anyone tried it yet?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-January-2017 at 5:54PM
does anybody remember an ultrasonic transducer that installs in the intake manifold plenum under the carb, it had 4 rods that angled up kinda trapezoidal and had a couple wires that had to be rigged through the carb base gasket somehow...
 
 
i can't find any evidence that it ever existed, i thought Edelbrock marketed it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 5:55PM
A better atomization tool closer to the squirters... sounds like a good deal to me!
Remember in the 80s they had the heated screen plate under the carb to not only atomize the fuel by making it splash through the screen but the heat would start to evap it and further atomize it as it got sucked in.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 5:42PM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order Angry i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
 damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!!LOL
 
Nah, just seen the light. Wink
haha
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 4:18PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order Angry i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
 damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!!LOL
 
Nah, just seen the light. Wink
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 3:56PM
well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order Angry i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
 damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!!LOL
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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