awesome carb idea |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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Posted: 26-February-2017 at 11:51AM |
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the one thing regarding timing that i did see was if i cracked it real fast from idle while in park that the advance when about half way and started to retard, but if i opened it a bit slower it advanced and continued through the advance range as it should! the main reason i decided to try this carb was #1 it's been sitting there in the garage staring at me for years #2 i figured a bit bigger carb may work better than the 450 holley that was on there, would stall if you jumped on it hard from an idle--it's a design flaw the advance hole is below the butterfly on those 450 mechanical 4 bbl's i've plugged and redrilled them above the butterfly--holley states not to use those particular carbs as a single carb, i'm guessing it has something to due with vacuum issues of a dual 4 tunnel ram????
but that "flat spot" as i called it was almost unnoticeable to me, the average person probably never would have noticed it at all!! it runs well enough for my purposes |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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introducing new architecture into the venturi air stream can cause significant to drastic changes in distribution characteristics. factory carbs (lots of well educated experimentation & development) have tiny little flags or tabs on the booster venturis for the purpose of controlling / modifying fuel distribution. you might think they're just left over casting flash from mfg'ing but they're there on purpose. here's a pic of some crazy big tabs, many are less that 1/8 square and are important enough to be there. notice that they're not symmetrical probably because the carb came on a dual plane intake plenum http://www.hotrod.com/articles/basics-restoring-carburetor-performance/#06-afb-carb-rebuild-tif
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72 GT Ute
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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what does the advance curve look like, possibly over-advancing at that point?
~supposedly~ George Holley said to Henry Ford that 90% of carb problems are electrical FWIW i just had to return my 2003 CVPI to stock for emissions, my X-cal II programmer allows me to advance above & beyond what the tuner put in, and i usually do but with the stock flash I'm getting better low end TQ i suspect due to not over-advancing mods include an Aviator throttle body (slightly larger), 2004 zip tube (better bends) Marauder filter box (larger inlet) and Marauder MAF (larger diameter). Haha it makes the 4bbl flipped air cleaner lid sound coming at you and mellow glass packs going away (still has cats) when i put it back to I'm gonna try the aftermarket tune as-is for a bit before i tweak it
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72 GT Ute
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Nuggets
Senior Member Joined: 07-November-2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 869 |
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50cc pumps with yellow or brown cams are the way forward.....all the fuel.....all the time
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Barnaby
429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
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MrSmog
Senior Member Joined: 21-January-2016 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 1407 |
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maybe try a different accelerator pump cam? maybe one with a more aggressive ramp? |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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ok, today the weather was decent enough to road test and tune the carb today
i did 4 or 5 runs out on the open road with the 600 DP seems good... i did notice a very slight flat spot at less than 1/4 throttle very very minor! so then i installed this powerblast plate and retried it 4 or 5 times again... it did seem to have a little smoother transition now! is it worth the $40??? IDK but what the hell i've spent money on other parts over the years that either didn't work out or never got used or scrapped or traded or sold |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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... "water on a duck's back"
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Dang it Johnny, you took the high road once again. I was just stirring the pot a bit, nothing against the new member, just trying to liven the place up a bit . My wife says I am a natural instigator or is it agitator(or maybe something worse I either don't want to print or I just can't spell), I strive to do it in a good natured fun sorta way (doesn't always work out that way though) .
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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yeah i noticed that! well as they say if your good it's often imitated
now i remember the term... "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" Edited by californiajohnny - 25-February-2017 at 1:29PM |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Hey California Johnny, looks like someone liked your avatar so much he made it his own .
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Richard W.
New Member Joined: 25-December-2016 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Here is a video in action. See how the stream fans out, better atomization. However, you do have to bend them as its running to make sure none of the fuel hits the side of the venturi. This could slow down airflow ruining any positive effects.
https://youtu.be/-tAZjyu_KKY |
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Richard W.
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Richard W.
New Member Joined: 25-December-2016 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Pushing raw fuel into the quench area thus fueling the plugs reducing efficiency. Once the plug is dead, enough fuel can build up to squeeze past the rings but most out the exhaust. It's still a hydraulic effect it just doesn't bend rods. These Thompson things should work fine for atomization, the Autolite 4100 has had one for its entire production run. If you have squirters that produce a flat stream, it's not needed.
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Richard W.
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Nuggets
Senior Member Joined: 07-November-2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 869 |
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In order to hydraulic lock the engine with the carb jetting you'd have to be an idiot.....like running a 1050 Dominator on a stock 289
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Barnaby
429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
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Richard W.
New Member Joined: 25-December-2016 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Fuel has to be atomized to burn properly. This realization is as old as the hills. Any "puddling" of fuel on the bottom of the intake can leak into the cylinder. If the carb is severely over jetted, it can result in a hydraulic effect or fueling the plugs. The Hotrod article below can explain.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotrod.com/articles/understanding-gasoline-atomization-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do/amp/?client=ms-android-att-us |
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Richard W.
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Nuggets
Senior Member Joined: 07-November-2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 869 |
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The squirters output is just determined by how hard you mash the pedal and force the diaphragm up with the cam....you can get some pull past but Holley make a nozzle to stop that
I appreciate the fact it helps to atomise the fuel turning it from a jet to a mist but cant help but feel like its snake oil without some form of proper backup data. They don't post actual dyno results or show two identical motors, in two identical cars setting a time.
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Barnaby
429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
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Richard W.
New Member Joined: 25-December-2016 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Edited by Richard W. - 21-February-2017 at 7:41PM |
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Richard W.
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Richard W.
New Member Joined: 25-December-2016 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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They are designed to have negative pressure above the squirter so it meters correctly. The Autolite 4100 4bbl come stock with them for a reason. My advise, get a 4100 and call it good. You will search for and chase the throttle response this carb will give all day. Are they expensive, yes but the last one I bought last month I paid $75 on Ebay. With rebuild kit, bushings, filter, new needles, base plate and base gaskets, I will have about $200 all in. The one I have on my 74 Gran Torino 351w (393 stroker) 600 cfm gets about 12-13 mpg in town and 16-19 highway depending on how I drive. How you drive is 50% of your mpg. On one froggy day I got 7mpg. Sue me, I was having fun! 😃
Edited by Richard W. - 21-February-2017 at 7:41PM |
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Richard W.
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Power Surge
Senior Member Joined: 06-March-2016 Location: Palm Coast, FL Status: Offline Points: 542 |
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All this part is, is a tiny airfoil over the acceleration pump squirter. It's just to turn the stream of fuel coming out of the squirter into more of a fan mist for faster atomization.
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Sal Mennella
73 GTS 351 CJ 75 Cougar XR7 73 Ranchero - 5.0 Coyote swap - in progress Past Torinos - 72 Gran Torino, 75 Gran Torino, 75 Elite |
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Grokrok
Member Joined: 04-November-2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Same here. I recall seeing products like this hyped for the performance crowd, then after people figure out it was all hype the products just faded away. The ones I recall were some sort of magnetized wire (touted as improving MPG too), and another was a screen. I'd be interested in how this does not interfere with the bernoulli affect, a diverter plate like this seems like it would impede a high performance carbs overall CFM. |
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Nuggets
Senior Member Joined: 07-November-2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 869 |
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Too much cam, too little spring. Bent a pushrod 4 ways, got new springs coming at some point this week.....
Just need to stick the engine back together with new gaskets after that and order some new pushrods
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Barnaby
429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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haven't tried it yet, been waiting on that 600DP base plate for that carb i want to try it on aftermarket base plate was on back order for the last 2 months so i called summit a couple of days ago and asked if they had the factory holley one in stock since it was only $8 more they said yes and since i've been waiting so long they would just send it to me and not pay the difference just got it today! should have been here yesterday but fedex pussed out and wouldn't deliver yesterday because of the snowy roads...roads were bare and dry BTW!! so i just got it but i may not swap carbs just yet since i need to drive it down and get it realigned, just thinking don't want to be messing around on the side of the road with an untried carb! probably just paranoid but don't like taking nice cars out in crappy weather and have possible issues on top of that
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.
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"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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BBF's are fairly stout, except for the car rods, still seen them go 65-6800rpm before one (or more) was outside the block . Have you found what broke?
Edited by aquartlow - 07-February-2017 at 9:25AM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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Nuggets
Senior Member Joined: 07-November-2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 869 |
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I keep seeing these advertised on facebook....the price puts me off trying one, I'm just running a far more aggressive cam on my carb, bigger squirter sizes (37-42) and twin 50cc pumps. Definitely didn't stumble when I broke the engine.....
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Barnaby
429 powered 73 Stripper.....no comfort, just noise! |
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gaertner_jan
New Member Joined: 31-December-2012 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Soooooo, has anyone tried it yet?
J |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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does anybody remember an ultrasonic transducer that installs in the intake manifold plenum under the carb, it had 4 rods that angled up kinda trapezoidal and had a couple wires that had to be rigged through the carb base gasket somehow...
i can't find any evidence that it ever existed, i thought Edelbrock marketed it?
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72 GT Ute
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Regul8r 2
Admin Group Joined: 02-February-2016 Location: Rapid City, SD Status: Offline Points: 447 |
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A better atomization tool closer to the squirters... sounds like a good deal to me!
Remember in the 80s they had the heated screen plate under the carb to not only atomize the fuel by making it splash through the screen but the heat would start to evap it and further atomize it as it got sucked in. |
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Carl, Member/Admin since 07. Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space.
Owner- www.CaNDeCustoms.com |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Nah, just seen the light.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!! |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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