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californiajohnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: awesome carb idea
    Posted: 30-December-2016 at 6:41PM
has anyone else seen this item? a buddy of mine showed me this a couple of days ago... so i just bought one to try, if i'm impressed i'll be buying several more Wink

http://www.thompsonperformance.com/

watch the video, they say "seeing is believing" well so is hearing, sounds much smoother and less hesitation Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torino_Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2016 at 9:39PM
Well it'll be interesting to hear from you about the results! The video and website are pretty cheesy, right?
Sounds like something from a TV Shopping Channel LOL And the prices...Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaertner_jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2016 at 11:01PM
Please tell me you're impressed with it? =)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 12:45AM
I go here for my carb tuning needs/advice, many there say it's a gimmick, but I have no personal experience with them(CJ, just don't want you to throw money away-hell, send it to me instead LOL). Jmarkaudio and Tuner are awesome sources for carb tech, NEVER have given me bad info.
 
 
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaertner_jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 1:24AM
I'd love to see Dulcich and Freiburger test this thing on engine masters. I'm a bit annoyed that Thompson claims years of testing yet provides absolutely no data. And no, I do not consider those silly dyno sheets on their website real test data.
It does seem intuitive that a finer mist of fuel might flow better, burn better, etc. Since cracking the throttle blades open causes a portion of the fuel to drop out of suspension this little device could really improve that issue, however, I'm actually betting it covers up a common problem I see on customer tuned cars: too big a squirter nozzle to begin with. The resulting bog on acceleration is almost always very clearly visible on O2/AFR data graphs.
But like I said... I'd like to see clear chassis dyno data.

J

Edited by gaertner_jan - 31-December-2016 at 1:28AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unlovedford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 4:12AM
I noticed the difference in how they operated the throttle right from the start. I'd save that $50 for 25 gallons of fuel and an hour of fine tuning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mach1000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 4:28AM
Whoever made the presentation likes google images...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 4:45AM
I'm a former Ford custom dyno tuner, and I was also one of the very few people in the country that did hard core carb tuning as well. 

Carbs are wonderful devices, but each one has it's own minor issues and you have to understand that the work by using several different "circuits" of fuel delivery throughout the rpm range. And each one has a design that transitions one circuit to the next, hoping to have as little fumble as possible. 

The accelerator pump and squirters are one of those transition devices. They deliver extra fuel during the sudden loss of pull on the venturis which would create a dead spot or even a stall under acceleration and bridge the gap between the idle circuit and the main circuit. 

What most people don't know, is that they are WAYY more things you can alter or adjust in most carbs beyond the "normal" stuff. However, those other areas usually require special metering blocks and other parts that can make tuning the carb cost more than the carb itself did. Now don't get me wrong.... a carb tuned to that level is a beautiful thing. My old Shelby 427 Cobra got 24 mpg on normal driving and 13.0 A/F under WOT...and that was reworking the 1965 Holly carb.

This device here is kind of interesting. It's not really tuning anything, but breaking the fuel down finer would definitely make a difference in response. I don't think 50 bucks is out of line to try this IF you have a car that's got a need for it (i.e. tip in accel issue). Fixing an issue like that via tuning would cost way more than 50 bucks. 

Just my 2 cents :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 7:17AM
the invention that keeps coming back. 1st, the garden hose flow from the nozzle is not what gets to the combustion chamber, you can see that as soon as the fuel shot hits the main booster it breaks up significantly. then it's exposed to heat & turbulence in the intake manifold plenum
 
Yes if you can cause better atomization the engine will run more efficiently &/or make more power
 
but ~ $50 EACH !? 
 
i wonder if they have one for 660 center squirters?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 7:24AM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

the invention that keeps coming back. 1st, the garden hose flow from the nozzle is not what gets to the combustion chamber, you can see that as soon as the fuel shot hits the main booster it breaks up significantly. then it's exposed to heat & turbulence in the intake manifold plenum
 
Yes if you can cause better atomization the engine will run more efficiently &/or make more power
 
but ~ $50 EACH !? 
 
i wonder if they have one for 660 center squirters?
 


Also....I would probably try to make my own first... lol. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan the ranchero man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2016 at 11:54AM
I want to know what you think and I might consider one of these for the 74 ranchero. I have spent $50 on dumber things and if this works and you really notice a difference in performance that would be great. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2017 at 7:22AM
flashbacks to the Warshawsky's catalogs ... gotta wonder why the carb mfgr's didn't include them,
surely the patent from the first rendition is expired by now?
 
Yeah Dan I've $hot away plenty but i can't say I'm happy about most of them LOL
 
i suspect any improvement noticeable or not will be in the form of drivability & fuel economy,
possibly improved low/midrange torque but not HP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnrlee01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 2:04PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

has anyone else seen this item? a buddy of mine showed me this a couple of days ago... so i just bought one to try, if i'm impressed i'll be buying several more Wink

http://www.thompsonperformance.com/

watch the video, they say "seeing is believing" well so is hearing, sounds much smoother and less hesitation Wink


what you should do is dyno your car before and after you put this on, and see exactly how much this affects it. im curious as to how it affects the fuel economy as well.
please keep us all posted, im anxious to find out...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 3:56PM
well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order Angry i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
 damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 4:18PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order Angry i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
 damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!!LOL
 
Nah, just seen the light. Wink
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2017 at 5:42PM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

well i may be a while before i find out, i bought one to try on the primary side... i'm planning on swapping out the 450 holley for a 600 doublepumper i have, but the base plate is on back order Angry i've had it for several years almost new carb with a fresh rebuild kit in it that i did for a buddy, he broke a tab installing it, so i bought it from him cheap!!! been laying around for many years so i figured i'd use it for my future "last car" when i get it (69 GTO judge) but i also thought about a 67 fastback mustang for a "last car" then i figured hell why not get both! but as of late i'm thinking just a 67 fastback.
 damn you ford guys...you've corrupted me!!LOL
 
Nah, just seen the light. Wink
haha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 5:55PM
A better atomization tool closer to the squirters... sounds like a good deal to me!
Remember in the 80s they had the heated screen plate under the carb to not only atomize the fuel by making it splash through the screen but the heat would start to evap it and further atomize it as it got sucked in.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-January-2017 at 5:54PM
does anybody remember an ultrasonic transducer that installs in the intake manifold plenum under the carb, it had 4 rods that angled up kinda trapezoidal and had a couple wires that had to be rigged through the carb base gasket somehow...
 
 
i can't find any evidence that it ever existed, i thought Edelbrock marketed it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaertner_jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 8:26AM
Soooooo, has anyone tried it yet?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 8:43AM
I keep seeing these advertised on facebook....the price puts me off trying one, I'm just running a far more aggressive cam on my carb, bigger squirter sizes (37-42) and twin 50cc pumps. Definitely didn't stumble when I broke the engine.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 9:25AM
Originally posted by Nuggets Nuggets wrote:

I keep seeing these advertised on facebook....the price puts me off trying one, I'm just running a far more aggressive cam on my carb, bigger squirter sizes (37-42) and twin 50cc pumps. Definitely didn't stumble when I broke the engine.....
 
BBF's are fairly stout, except for the car rods, still seen them go 65-6800rpm before one (or more) was outside the block Ouch. Have you found what broke?


Edited by aquartlow - 07-February-2017 at 9:25AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 9:33AM
I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 1:10PM
haven't tried it yet, been waiting on that 600DP base plate for that carb i want to try it on aftermarket base plate was on back order for the last 2 months so i called summit a couple of days ago and asked if they had the factory holley one in stock since it was only $8 more they said yes and since i've been waiting so long they would just send it to me and not pay the difference Big smile just got it today! should have been here yesterday but fedex pussed out and wouldn't deliver yesterday because of the snowy roads...roads were bare and dry BTW!! so i just got it Clap but i may not swap carbs just yet since i need to drive it down and get it realigned, just thinking don't want to be messing around on the side of the road with an untried carb! probably just paranoid but don't like taking nice cars out in crappy weather and have possible issues on top of that Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-February-2017 at 6:13AM
Too much cam, too little spring. Bent a pushrod 4 ways, got new springs coming at some point this week.....

Just need to stick the engine back together with new gaskets after that and order some new pushrods
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grokrok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2017 at 8:34AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.


Same here. I recall seeing products like this hyped for the performance crowd, then after people figure out it was all hype the products just faded away. The ones I recall were some sort of magnetized wire (touted as improving MPG too), and another was a screen.

I'd be interested in how this does not interfere with the bernoulli affect, a diverter plate like this seems like it would impede  a high performance carbs overall CFM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Power Surge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2017 at 2:35PM
Originally posted by Grokrok Grokrok wrote:

Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

I could swear I've seen those squirter diverters before, like 20-30 years ago.


Same here. I recall seeing products like this hyped for the performance crowd, then after people figure out it was all hype the products just faded away. The ones I recall were some sort of magnetized wire (touted as improving MPG too), and another was a screen.

I'd be interested in how this does not interfere with the bernoulli affect, a diverter plate like this seems like it would impede  a high performance carbs overall CFM.

All this part is, is a tiny airfoil over the acceleration pump squirter. It's just to turn the stream of fuel coming out of the squirter into more of a fan mist for faster atomization. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2017 at 7:34PM
They are designed to have negative pressure above the squirter so it meters correctly. The Autolite 4100 4bbl come stock with them for a reason. My advise, get a 4100 and call it good. You will search for and chase the throttle response this carb will give all day. Are they expensive, yes but the last one I bought last month I paid $75 on Ebay. With rebuild kit, bushings, filter, new needles, base plate and base gaskets, I will have about $200 all in. The one I have on my 74 Gran Torino 351w (393 stroker) 600 cfm gets about 12-13 mpg in town and 16-19 highway depending on how I drive. How you drive is 50% of your mpg. On one froggy day I got 7mpg. Sue me, I was having fun! 😃

Edited by Richard W. - 21-February-2017 at 7:41PM
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.

Edited by Richard W. - 21-February-2017 at 7:41PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuggets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 8:59AM
The squirters output is just determined by how hard you mash the pedal and force the diaphragm up with the cam....you can get some pull past but Holley make a nozzle to stop that 

I appreciate the fact it helps to atomise the fuel turning it from a jet to a mist but cant help but feel like its snake oil without some form of proper backup data. They don't post actual dyno results or show two identical motors, in two identical cars setting a time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2017 at 9:47AM
Fuel has to be atomized to burn properly. This realization is as old as the hills. Any "puddling" of fuel on the bottom of the intake can leak into the cylinder. If the carb is severely over jetted, it can result in a hydraulic effect or fueling the plugs. The Hotrod article below can explain.




https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotrod.com/articles/understanding-gasoline-atomization-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do/amp/?client=ms-android-att-us
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