INFO: The Coil Spring Thread |
Post Reply | Page 123 20> |
Author | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 09-November-2009 at 12:34PM |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PLEASE NOTE: All the data from this thread is summarized in an easy to read format here: The above link provides you with all the data on factory, aftermarket and spring combinations depending on your vehicle goals. Instead of reading through this long thread, start by reading the above thread. If you want to see various car and spring combination photos, look at this link here: This thread provides some photos of actual member's cars with various spring combinations to help you pick the ideal combination for your car. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ OK, after all the posts in a progress thread, figured maybe we should start a dedicated thread!
As promised, here are the OEM GTS 1972 spring rates:
CODE 7S = 1gray stripe & 2 red, 1908 lb.,10-1/8 coils, .637 wire dia., 18-15/16 free length
(All other codes, see table below)
All information listed is for a '72 GTS fastback w/ 400 engine ---------------------------------- For those that belong to the Fairlane Club of America, here is the link to my original posting there, and Jack Grice's reply:
Edited by 72FordGTS - 11-May-2020 at 5:41AM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Great info!! Where did you get that stuff from?
Where it says, all info is for 1972 Fastback with 400, what is that refering too? I am curious what the factory codes are for my car, since it is a 1972 fastback with 400 engine (P/S, no A/C). I wish that those specs would have included the load height, then it would be very easy to calculate the spring rates. I think we can still calculate the spring rates, but we have to use a much more complicated formula: spring rate = Gd^4 / 8ND³ G = 11,250,000 Torsional Modules for steel (constant) d = wire diameter in inches N = number of active coils D = Mean coil diameter 8 = constant for all springs The problem is, we have the number of coils, but we need to know how many are active (active coils are the ones not touching anything). So for example, if 3/4 of the top coil touches the top mount, and 1/2 touchs the lower mount, then 1 1/4 coils are NOT active. We also need the mean diameter, which the diameter in the middle of the coil wire. We don't have any diameter listed for the OEM springs, but all Moog replacements are 4.04" inner diameter, so maybe we can assume OEM has the same diameter. So mean diameter should be inner diameter plus wire diameter. With that info, we should be able to come up with some rough spring rates, as long as we can figure out what the number of non active coils (I would assume this should stay constant between different springs). |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From the research I had done, along with Interceptor460, He found that a 1976 Chevy Impalla with a 454 actually had a shorter spring, with a higher rate, thicker coils, but I've never been able to get a set myself to test.
With springs...I've said this before...it's a matter of personal choice. SOme guys will deal with a dump truck ride, others don't feel the need for a super stiff spring.
Another thing to keep in mind...when you increase springs, you need to consider your shocks as well.
Andy
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This is a very interesting subject. I'm trying to follow along best I can, but the math is a bit much for me. I have been looking at different springs for my car and trying to decide the best choice. I want springs on the front and rear that make the car handle exceptionally well, but not ride like a truck. Mine is a '73 GTS that I'm putting a '70 429 CJ in. I got interested in the CVPI springs from Torinogts73c's comments on how well he liked these springs. I just don't know how well they would work with the heavier engine. I was looking at front and rear springs for a '77 LTD II wagon also. The numbers look good, but I'm not to well educated in this area.
Thanks guys for all your help! Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
After doing some reading, it appears for coil over springs they consider two complete coils inactive for spring calculations. I am not sure if that applies for short/long control arm suspension. If it does, the spring rates are as follows:
Code Wire Diameter Number of Coils Mean Coil Diameter Spring Rate 94 0.648 10.250 4.688 292 3y 0.740 8.7500 4.780 572 4Z 0.652 10.625 4.692 285 5A 0.652 10.625 4.692 285 7T 0.728 9.1250 4.768 511 7X 0.728 9.1250 4.768 511 8A 0.670 10.000 4.710 339 7S 0.637 10.125 4.677 279 Even if the my assumption on the non-active coils isn't correct, this would at least give us a comparision on which springs are stiffest. For reference, Moog lists the following Springs: Part # Spring Rate 8166 282 8302 318 8170 360 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crispy23c
Senior Member Joined: 10-November-2007 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GREAT stuff!! Andy, can you post the striping code table that is mentioned on the bottom of your post? I didn't see it. By that I mean color stripe codes.
And...
Here is a link to more information and codes for the Crown Vic Police Springs. Not to derail the thread, but I know that others here (like me) are considering installing CVPI front springs in their Torinos:
Link says rear, but it lists important info on the front springs too. Edited by crispy23c - 09-November-2009 at 3:30PM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well the stiffest '76 Impala Spring is Moog 6446 - rated at 514 in/lbs. It has a 4.03 inner diameter, .01" smaller than the Torino. If we compare it to the 8170 Torino spring, we can use the load rate of 2375 lbs as the approximate spring load. So, 2375 lbs / 514 in/lbs = 4.62 inches. So, this spring will be compressed 4.62 inches with 2375 lbs of pressure on it. Now, 16.77 in - 4.62 in = 12.15 inches So, this spring will actually be 1.25" higher than the Torino spring which sits at 11" with 2375 lbs of pressure on it. Maybe it was another part number? I agree Springs are very preference oriented. I would like to figure out all the OEM spring rates so we all know what we are starting with. That way, we can all make better spring choices. Personally, my goal would be to make my Torino handle like a and ride like a CVPI. These cars have next to no body roll and ride stiff but not harsh. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
In REAL Laymans terms, what does this mean?
In all of my cars, I always ran stock rear springs and small block front springs with a big block, for stance, along with full poly bushings in the biggest sway bars I could find.. My Cougar has Bilstein CVPI spec shocks.. I can stand on the rear bumper and bounce and the car doesn't deflect much at all. I never had a complaint on ride? Edited by Psquare75 - 10-November-2009 at 2:45AM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'll throw more into the mix. You guys are dealing with the earlier cars. the heavier 77-79 cars have even more MOOG #s MOOG Part # 8544Frt Susp; w/o A/C
MOOG Part # 862
Frt Susp; w/A/C; Heavy Duty
Edited by Psquare75 - 10-November-2009 at 3:08AM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
uploads/573/springs.xls
I uploaded an XLS file I just created with all of the moog spring rates I found in an online catalog that uses 'our' type of spring ends.
Now I have no idea what to do with these numbers, but if you tell me how to crunch em, I'd be happy to.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Those all have the same ends, but they won't all work because of the size. Almost all Torino springs have an inner diameter of 4.04", so they'd have to be close to that to work in our cars. I made an Excel sheet that has all the Torino springs Moog lists for Torinos 72-76. Year catagory in the chart is the first year the springs are used, sometimes they are used in other years as well. The standard and CVPI Crown Vic springs are listed as well. If you look at the springs, it looks like the 72-73 cars have lower (11" approx) load heights vs 74-76 (12" approx). I also included a small spring calculator chart on the side of the chart. You can use this to compare using different springs. Use this page to find out what your "stock" Moog replacement spring would be for your Torino: http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm Find what the load rate of the spring your car has stock. So we'll use a 1972 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension - spring 8170. Stock this sits at 11" load height and has a 360 in/lbs rate. Now lets compare this to the 1974 HD spring because it has the heigher 411 in/lbs spring rate. So use the load weight from the spring (this is the approximate load your car puts on the spring) and enter this into the first blank box on the calculator. Then use the spring rate and free height of the new spring you want to compare it to. In our example, we'd use 2375 load weight, 411 spring rate, and 17.16 free height. And the result is 11.4. So this spring will sit higher than the stock spring at the same load weight. So, although we'd get a stiffer spring, the stance of the car will suffer. I hope this makes sense. Of course I am not sure how accurate these load weights are, so this can only be used as an estimate to help choose a spring. If we can get some accurate measurments on the front suspension of the Torino, there is the potentional to get accurate load rates for an individuals car. There is a formula than with those measurements than can figure out if there is x weight on the front wheels, then the front spring will have y weight exerted on it. Torino_Springs_2.xls Edited by 72FordGTS - 10-November-2009 at 2:33PM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This is what I like seeing!!
This is good from the point it helps to consolidate the info.
I will have to check on the FCA site if I can get the info.
Andy
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Which part are you refering to? |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well. thinking goes like this. I have springs that call for a ride height at 12". Is it safe to say they sagged a bit and went to 11"? If thats the case.. I want 1" lower... so 10" installed height.
stock rate is 322 lbs.
I'd go a bit stiffer, and 10" installed height.. with the 4.031- 4.04 coils.
5428 works..
2650 lbs / 393 in lbs = 6.74"... subtract from free height of 16.83.. I get 10.08"
(2650 is the weight of a 460 in a 76 Torino... I guess I will use that as a guideline/starting point).
It's for an early 80s Caprice.
I don't want a go kart ride.. I always felt the best way to go was soft springs and really thick sway bars... combine that with thin sidewalls.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
rtgreen
Member Joined: 25-February-2006 Location: Central Alabama Status: Offline Points: 118 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Here is some more helpful information for anyone looking to replace springs.
This is from Eaton Springs Website.
Spring Tech 101
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72 Gran Torino Sport Q 4spd in Light Pewter Metallic
2012 Mustang GT (Brembo) 5.0, 6MT, 3.55s 1995 Bronco - 5.0 5spd. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well, you're on the right track. The only problem is, these heights are all at the coil spring. Since the lower control arm acts as a lever, 1" at the wheel, won't be 1" at the spring. So these coil springs you selected will sit 2" lower than the stock springs. I am not sure how that would translate at the wheels, but I would think it would be more than 2" at the wheels because of the lever action. I think those springs would work, but my educated guess is that they might drop the car more than you'd expect. Edited by 72FordGTS - 11-November-2009 at 7:50AM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I emailed Mike the "spring guru" over at Eaton springs. I asked him about the number of inactive coils for Torino springs. Because the Torino has one square end and one tangential end, only 1.5 coils are inactive. I guess this makes sense when you think about it.
So I recalcualted the spring rates for OEM springs, which are a little lower than the original numbers I posted. Torino Spring Rates OEM Springs Code Wire Diameter Number of Coils Mean Coil Diameter Spring Rate 94 0.648 10.250 4.688 275 3Y 0.740 08.750 4.780 533 4Z 0.652 10.625 4.692 270 5A 0.652 10.625 4.692 270 7T 0.728 09.125 4.768 478 7X 0.728 09.125 4.768 478 8A 0.670 10.000 4.710 319 7S 0.637 10.125 4.677 262 91 0.628 10.500 4.668 239 92 0.628 10.500 4.668 239 7R 0.615 10.125 4.655 231 If someone can put that into a more readable chart it would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has anymore OEM spring specs for any year Torino, please send them to me and I will calculate the spring rates. Is there anyway to make this thread sticky? It's good reference for the future. Edited by 72FordGTS - 02-December-2009 at 9:02AM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
interceptor460
Senior Member Joined: 24-February-2009 Location: montreal Status: Offline Points: 409 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
On my 74 460 PI torino my front springs were p/n D4AW 5310AVA . Also it had a lime green or yellow tag with the part number and the letters (SHE) on it. In my old TRW book this coil is listed as p/n CS8336. The wire dia. is 4.04 inches and the wire is .720 inch thick. The installed height is 10.50" and free height is 17.12" . The spring rate is 449.7 lbs. and load in lbs. is 2975. I have found a chevy coil spring for 74 caprice with 454 engine . The TRW p/n is CS5552 inside dia is 4.03 inches free height is 16.22 inches and installed height is 10.50 inches. Load in lbs. is 3025 lbs. The spring rate is 542.8 lbs. and wire is .740 inches thick. I find it would be a good all around coil spring for this car.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Good info, but the spring load rates are moog rates which some are different from the factory load rates.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Yes, that XLS file is for Moog springs only, not factory springs. If you see a couple of posts up, I have the specs for the factory springs (for '72 Torinos). The aftermarket has far fewer spring choices than the factory options. However, since it's unlikely to get factory springs anymore, we are stuck with using Moog. That's why you can look up the specs of the factory and see if the aftermarket makes one close to the original. Otherwise, you may need to get custom springs to match the car's originals. Don't forget load rates are simply the weight applied to the spring at the load height, it's not the spring's capacity. For example, a spring with a 2500 lb load rate and an 11" installed height, simply means that when the spring is compressed to 11", it has a load of 2500 lbs on it. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
OK
Here's my dilemma;
I want to go with the CVPI spring. I read somewhere the factory spring load rate is around 2400+. The Moog replacement is around 2100. I can order the Ford spring from Ford under part number D90Z-5310-W but I cannot verify the specs. My 73 was originally a 351, now it will be a 429 and with the extra weight I want to make sure I get the right spring. I don't think the Moog spring will work for me with it's lower load rate.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Psquare75
Admin Group Member of the Stroker Club Joined: 26-November-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4591 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
My dilemma is.. ride height.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I crunched some numbers, and I think you'll be okay with the Moog springs. Remember, the load rate is not the springs capacity. It is how much weight the spring is carrying at it the height it's designed ride height. Things get complicated when you compare different applications and spring rates, and may not be easy to compare. If anyone has the specs for the factory CVPI springs, I'd like to see how they compare to the Moogs. If you open the XLS file I made on the Moog springs, you'll see there is a spring calculator on the side as well. This was made to compare different springs in your application. The load rate is the pressure that the car puts on the spring. So this stays constant for your car regardless of spring choice. So if we have a 1973 429 Torino with HD springs, the moog application is 8314. So according to Moog, this Torino puts about 2776 lbs of pressure on the front coil spring. You can change this to any spring in the world, but as long as you don't change anything else on the car, your car will still put 2776 lbs of pressure on that spring. So if you want to compare this to a CVPI Moog spring, you can use the calculator to do that. Enter in the 2776 load from your car, the 710 in/lbs rating and 14.38" free height of the spring. The result: 10.5" This means, the CVPI spring will sit at 10.5" when loaded with 2776 lbs of pressure. If you see the chart, the stock springs for 1972-73 Torino's have the springs sit at 10.5-11". So, it looks like you car would sit pretty near stock height with these springs, but my guess is on the low side. Remember, the load rate of on the CVPI spring is only 2034 lbs. This means a Vic only puts that much pressure on the front springs. But, you'll also note the Crown Vic, stock and CVPI, has the springs stitting at 11.5" (approx), which is much taller than the '73 Torino. I hope this is clear, if not I'll try to explain it better. I wanted to try to run CVPI moogs in my '72 Torino, but with my 400 and lack of the weight from the heavy '73 bumper, I think they'll sit too high in my car. Edited by 72FordGTS - 03-December-2009 at 10:21AM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I opened the chart, but I don't understand "spring calculator". How does that work?
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
First go to this page, and find out what moog spring your car uses. http://101part.com/coilsprings/ford/torino.htm Then look at the load rate for that spring. This is an "approximate" load rate that you can use for your car. The only way to find the actual load rate involves weighing you car at that corner and using bunch of really complicated math and measurements from the suspension (which I don't have). So for example, on that page a 1973 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension uses coil spring 8224. We look at the Excel chart and this spring has a load rate of 2776 lbs. So, that means, a 1973 Torino with a 429 and HD suspension puts approximate 2776 lbs of pressure on that front spring when stock. So, if we use a different spring in the car, it still puts that same pressure (2776 lbs) on the spring (the car's weight hasn't changed), do you follow me? So, take that load rate for your car, enter it in the load rate on the spring calculator. Then find the spring specs from from the coil spring you want to try in your car. So, lets say we use Moog 8336, which is a much stiffer spring from a 1975 460 Torino. So you use the spring rate (how stiff the spring is) and the free length (the length of the spring uncompressed) in the calculator from spring 8336. The result is 11.2". So what does that mean? It means if you apply a load of 2776 lbs to that spring, it will compress to 11.2" in height. The stock Moog spring for this 73 compressed to 10.5" in height with that same load. So these springs would lift the front end of the Torino compared to the stock Moog replacements. Do you follow? Edited by 72FordGTS - 03-December-2009 at 3:45PM |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I believe I understand now. I just can't find the spring calculator.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
72FordGTS
Admin Group GTS.org Admin Joined: 06-September-2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 5848 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
It's on the excel sheet, it's over on the far right (depending on your screen resolution, you may have to scroll over to see it).
Just enter the numbers in the boxes and it will give you the result. |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Vince
1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GOT IT!!
That works great!
Thanks
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
interceptor460
Senior Member Joined: 24-February-2009 Location: montreal Status: Offline Points: 409 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Also as I mentioned in my previous reply . You can use springs made for other cars. This is as long the ends are the same and inside diameters are 4.03 to 4.04 inch. If you take a look you get a wider choice and higher spring rates if needed. Look at coil p/n CS5552 74 caprice . A higher rate than ford offers at the same height as coil p/n cs8336.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
73GTS
Senior Member Joined: 22-September-2008 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That spring in a Torino would actually have an installed height around 11.5. It would be a good choice for a 75-79ish w/460 if you need a little higher spring rate. What hurts that spring is the load rate of 3025lbs. Compared to the CVPI spring, the CVPI spring is a better choice for 72-73.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jim
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post Reply | Page 123 20> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |