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four speed swap questions

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ramair351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramair351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: four speed swap questions
    Posted: 01-March-2009 at 1:35PM
Hi guys. i am gathering the parts for this infamous swap. putting a toploader in a 73 torino.
so far i have :
bellhousing, spacer plate, flywheel, pedal assy, and 4/speed trans. The trans is out of a 1970 torino 351c. the questions:
is the 70 tailshaft shifter location going to compatible with a 72-73?
is the shifter different?
is the clutch fork specific to this app? or can i use another year/model?
how about the z-bar?
 
i realize these parts are made of unobtanium.  any comments or answers appreciated
-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura



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castillo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-March-2009 at 5:39PM

The shifters all swap.. Rather you have an early hurst or a stock shifter- all parts swap at the trans..The pieces you need are the manual trans pedals,dash hardware, dash braces & clutch  hardware(atlest the mechanical parts).. 72-74 are differant than earlier years.. The engines didn't cahnge , but the frame mounts and dash mounts changed..So you have to stick to 72-74.. I can tell you a lot of people have tried swapping these pices through the years.. Because the 429 pieces are so rare people have tried all these swaps.. If you stick to 72-74 parts you will be that much better off.. Just my opinion.. Also I feel 73-74 q-code c-6 combos are just as hard to get... Remember q-codes carried a stock 10" converter(2800-3000 stall) and heavier flywheel.. Find a get used 1 of those..

My dad told me 2 things.. Always drive FORDS and never marry women with names like CHERRY,PEACHES and LEMON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-March-2009 at 5:42AM
Pete-
On my 4 speed, I know that the Torino has a longer tailshaft housing that that of a Mustang. From what I know, it will still be the same length, if it's an automatic, I want to say either C4 or C6, but I can't confirm 100%.
I could measure the setup on that 1973 GTS in the driveway, but with my engine out, not 100% how close it'll be.
I do have 3 or 4 clutch rods if you need one. I got lucked and found an NOS piece for my car. I can't say if the fork is anything special...mine looks like a standard piece, like some mustang ones.
Z bar is going to probably be the biggest PITA. Oddly enough, I have seen a couple re-popped Z bar kits for 70-72 chevelles, and that Z bar looks awful close IMHO.
Slightly different shape, and of course the block mounded plate is different, but that could be corrected.
I had a 4x4 bellhouse off a 300 straight 6, and I know those are supposed to interchance with the 302-351...I was thinking if I ever decided to convert to a hydraulic clutch, might be the way to go, if you don't feel the need to run a scatter shield.
 
Personally, if you were really pressed to find a correct pedal setup, I originally was looking into one of the circle track part suppliers like Speedway motors or Southwest speed, and run a floorpan mounted clutch pedal, or you could run it, provided you modify the pedal set so that you can bolt or weld mount brackets to the hanger assembly.
I was going that route with my 1976 Elite before I found my GTS.
The 351c parts can be used on a 429, as there have been a couple cars that I know had had the swap done.
That one black 1972 GTS in my area with the Ford racing engine and 5 speed, all parts I have seen as is are from an original 351c 4 speed setup.
I recall years ago seeing a 429-4 speed 1972 MontegoGT on ebay...old conversion...guy had the car, bought it for the 429 and top loader, and had the car...freaking crime, I recall it didn't sell and he cut up a pristine body so he'd have the motor and trans for aPOS mustang that was originally a 6 cylinder.
 
 
Andy
 
 
Andrew: Long time Torino guy and GTS.ORG admin
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Torinogts73c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torinogts73c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-March-2009 at 5:59AM
The 70 tail shaft will be correct for the 72. Fork is the same as well. The Z-bar will be the problem. 72-74 only!
Gary 73 Gran Torino Sport 351CJ,SVT LIGHTNING,07 CHARGER R/T HEMI,97 Mustang GT Vert

"Never complain Never explain"
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ramair351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramair351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-March-2009 at 1:13PM
thanks for the tips!.. i have found that the engine side pivot bracket and clutch fork is the same as the 71-73 mustang, and they make those repro.    I have a line on a junk old 3 speed 72 torino i am going to get all the pedals from.    I think i will document this whole swap for everyone since its so hard to accomplish!
-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura



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mcford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-March-2009 at 12:49PM
i have a frame side pivot bracket should you need it.  shoot me an email.
Mike
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ramair351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramair351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-March-2009 at 1:32PM

i may need that from you, thanks. I remember where you live too!

 We are taking the annual pilgrimage down to the all-ford show in Columbus the end of the month.      Hopefully i can find some stuff there.         Anyone else here going?
-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-March-2009 at 5:47AM
OK, THAT is interesting, if you have pictures, or a link to the place selling the pivot, please post.
It would be nice to do a thread on 4 speed parts sourcing.
Andrew: Long time Torino guy and GTS.ORG admin
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ramair351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramair351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-March-2009 at 12:28PM
i won an ebay auction for a NOS zbar for a 72-73 torino. it was ALOT of $$. but how often do you see them?   one more peice of the puzzle.....
-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura



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castillo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-March-2009 at 2:48PM
I was watching that.. I saw the final bid and I'm scared to think what your actual high bid was.. My question is with all that feedback are you a buyer or seller.. Also way to go on trying to backdoor the auction; Thats a veteran move..
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ramair351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ramair351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-March-2009 at 11:41PM
i'd say my feedback is 50% buyer and seller. you gotta sell stuff to buy what you need! I was prepared to spend alot, and am happy with what i spent on it.
-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura



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castillo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-March-2009 at 9:46AM
I asked because I was wondering if you had a NOS stash.. I still need some items to wrap up some odds and ends...
My dad told me 2 things.. Always drive FORDS and never marry women with names like CHERRY,PEACHES and LEMON
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