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Can the center (drag) link go bad? |
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hogfiddles
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 4:53AM |
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Can the center (drag) link go bad?
Yes, of course. ANYTHING CAN go bad.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 100+ mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (14 trophies) |
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Inkara1
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Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 515 |
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 7:04AM |
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Took it out for a quick run before work. Not so much cutting out this time, but it did seem to struggle gaining speed uphill past 80 mph. But also, once I got back, I looked and the clear plastic fuel filter looked about empty. I'm wondering if it is a fuel delivery issue, in that during hard acceleration, it doesn't spend enough time above 3,000 RPM to drain the bowl, but it does at sustained RPM over 3,000 on the highway.
I have one of those Mr. Gasket fuel pressure regulators because I've heard the Carter brand fuel pumps put out too high of pressure, so I turned the knob clockwise one click, restarted the engine, revved it for a few seconds, and the fuel level came up a little bit. I might turn the knob as far as I can get it to go, allegedly up to 6 psi, and see if that helps. I thought it was only supposed to affect pressure, not volume, but maybe it restricts flow to lower pressure or something. I was able to do run with the windows closed this morning for better listening. I do still hear the rumble when I get to 80 mph and decelerate, but it's improved over where it was before. But it reminded me, on the long trip home when it was doing it at 70 and above, it was only when decelerating or cruising, never on acceleration. When I turn the rear wheels by hand, I can feel a little clunk clunk clunk like turning a volume knob with detents. I've always assumed that it was from the gears. I've been going through youtube videos to find the noise. It's very specifically a rumble (growl?), not a whine or howl. Is it likely something with the the bearings or the gears in the rear end? Is it something that can be lived with for a while as long as I stay under 75-80? I will also mention that when I changed the pinion seal, I was under the understanding that I would need to replace the crush sleeve and pinion nut, so I did that and retorqued. The old crush sleeve was split, so I don't know if that might have damaged the ring and pinion somehow.
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Rockatansky
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Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6398 |
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 11:26AM |
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my understanding those 'dial' regulators the numbers don't necessarily relate to psi .... and you replaced the crush collar, did you check pinion bearing preload as you tightened the pinion nut? was it growling before the crush collar or after?
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72 GT Ute
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Inkara1
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Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 515 |
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 1:38PM |
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I used an inch-pound torque wrench (the kind with the long pointer pointing at numbers) to check preload. I did slightly overtighten it so the preload was like 50 inch-pounds, so I backed the nut off the very tiniest amount (like maybe 1/16 of a turn or less) and the preload was back within spec. I'd seen that if one backs off the nut, they have to redo everything with a new crush washer, but since I'd have to pull off my brand new seal, I didn't want to do that, and since I backed it off so little, I figure the crush washer is OK. In thinking about it, I don't remember pulling out the outer pinion gear bearing to check it, so I wonder if I should have done that.
It made the rumble sound before I did that. It improved after, presumably because I also added oil. It improved to about where I have it today. It's just that it got worse on the way home from the show in May, possibly because oil leaked out. The dial regulator is supposed to range from 1 to 6 psi, but yeah, the numbers on the dial mean nothing. I'd had it set about in the middle, so I think I can give it more pressure.0
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 2:38PM |
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The pinion bearing needs some preload, and the crush washer is supposed to be sized and held tight to the amount designed for. I don't know the affect of loosening the nut after crushing it slightly too much, that's an unknown. I haven't ever set a pinion bearing, so I don't know enough to judge. I would watch the gear oil level closely, be sure it's very high quality synthetic, and considering the noise, maybe check the gear lash inside etc.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Inkara1
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 2:55PM |
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How would I check the gear lash?
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 3:04PM |
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That's the clearance of the ring to the pinion gear, about .012" typically. The 8.8 is supposed to be in a range of .009" to .014 if I recall, I aimed for .011 or .012" and hit .012" with the last two I have done(Crown Vic and Explorer). The pinion gear is supported by three bearings, that is one big key to a 9" rear, it's very very strong. But checking it I'm not sure of how to, looking at gear wear is a poor mans clue check. If anything makes you worry, you might have to take it back apart to reset check and reset the pinion bearing preload(and crush washer or pre-crushed sleeve).
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Inkara1
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Posted: 27-August-2024 at 6:00PM |
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I'm of a mind that if I take it apart again, I'd just go ahead and replace all the pinion and carrier bearings. Unless I need a press to do so, but it doesn't look like it. I'd love to upgrade to a limited slip diff of some sort, but that's also beaucoup bucks. And for some reason, be it lower engine output than I'd like or a C6 eating too much horsepower, or the 3.00 rear end, I have a hard enough time getting it to do a burnout with the one wheel, so probably no need to try to get it to do two.
Sounds like the only way to check involves removing the pumpkin.
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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72 RS 351
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Posted: 28-August-2024 at 12:10AM |
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That's true, the costs are high and the 9" is hard to R&R. I did it a few times when I was far younger, twice in junkyards. I think it might be good to consider a swap of the chunk. Hunt for one that you need more, try to plot the trans swap if that could happen. If you moved to an OD trans, then you could use a different gear no matter what. I've got a 3.70 and a 4.11, just LS's in my trucks. Way back when a used stock 9" was $25, and a little more if it had an LS. Now they all are valuable, you have to look harder these days.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000 rpm 351 stroker 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Booyah45828
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Posted: 28-August-2024 at 4:12AM |
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I was taught in school that crush washers are a one time deal, in that once it's over-crushed, you toss it and replace. The only time I've ever loosened and not replaced a crush washer is when I'm replacing worn seals. But when doing those, I'll mark the relationship between the nut and pinion that way I can tighten it right back up to where it was. Done it dozens of times, and I'm not aware of any issues from it. Now overtightening a crushwasher, I can't tell you what the drawbacks would be of it, maybe shortened bearing life? So long as you have loctite on the nut, it shouldn't loosen up. And always use loctite or cotter key on a pinion nut.
I'm a fan of crush washer eliminators and will always use them when they're available and I'm rebuilding a rear end.
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Inkara1
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Posted: 28-August-2024 at 2:58PM |
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Yeah, I only left it as is on that crush washer because I backed off so little. The nut I put on is new and had red stuff on the threads.
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handsofstone
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Posted: 28-August-2024 at 6:03PM |
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Just a thought. When it feels sluggish, pull over and remove the gas cap. I have had issues with the fuel tank not venting and creating a lot of vacuum. I took the cap off and the sucking sound was loud enough that I easily heard it with my bad ears.
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Inkara1
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Joined: 17-November-2021 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Status: Offline Points: 515 |
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Posted: 29-August-2024 at 9:55PM |
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So I believe the issue with the cutting out a bit at 75-80 mph was that the primary float level was too low somehow.
So I'd been having issues with the secondary dripping from the venturis when not in use, no matter how much I lowered the float. It made it hard to start after sitting a few minutes, and it was made worse by attempting a full-throttle takeoff from a stop, which next time I slowed down flooded the engine so much it tried to idle at 200 RPM before dying. So figuring there was crap in the needle and seat, I found a rebuild kit at O'Reilly that included new needle/seat assemblies, and took the carb apart. The secondary needle/seat was a bit sticky. I got it moving a bit better with carburetor cleaner, but I went ahead and replaced the needle and seat, and also sprayed cleaner through all the passages I could find. One of the air bleed holes was clogged also, so I took a needle meant to clear the nozzle on a 3D printer and poked it through, which then allowed carb cleaner through to clean it the rest of the way. The venturi that had been dripping more was the same side as the clogged air bleed hole, so that might be related...? I replaced the primary needle/seat since I had it, and I cleaned all those passages as well. I then reset the float levels and installed the carb with a new fuel filter.
After all this, I got it up to 90 mph on the hill climb with no engine drama, and could probably have pushed it more except I was near my turnoff where I go to turn around to head back to town, and I was doing 90 in a 55 zone. (If any cops with jurisdiction in California are reading this, I'm only joking. ) I can now take it to a store, buy a drink, and have it not flood. |
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1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Steve M.
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Posted: 31-August-2024 at 4:21AM |
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Very nice.
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Steve M.
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