72 Ranchero-parts from a Crown Vic? |
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russosborne
Senior Member Joined: 01-January-2015 Location: Glendale AZ Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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Posted: 29-May-2015 at 5:48PM |
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I am going to be buying the rear disk brakes and all hardware soon. Actually I am buying the whole rearend including the brakes. For $100 why not? Getting it this coming Monday.
I figure I should be able to sell the rear without the brakes and get some if not most of my money back. I am not a fan of the 8.8 rear at all so I am not interested in keeping it for any reason. Anyway, that is about the limit of swapabililty I am aware of for stuff from the Crown Vic. It's a 2002 PI, btw. I am really just looking for basically bolt on stuff if there is anything worthwhile. Guy is selling really cheap so I just want to see if there is anything else I should consider. Thanks, Russ Edited by russosborne - 29-May-2015 at 5:49PM |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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If you fab up some front brackets and cut down the Ranchero front rotors to use just the hub, you can install the CV's front rotors and calipers. Eliteman76(Andy) and myself have done this mod, made a big difference in braking on my Ranchero(along with hydroboost install). Here's a pic of the CV parts installed on my '79:
The difference in rotor diameter between stock Ranchero/Torino(hub removed) and CV: Takes a little bit of measuring/fab work but well worth it if you like doing performance mods. Good luck with your rear disc conversion(I also used the '98-'02 CV components for my rear disc conversion).
Edited by aquartlow - 29-May-2015 at 11:25PM |
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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IndyLTD I I
Member Joined: 01-March-2015 Location: Shelbyville, IN Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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x2 on the front brakes while not exactly a bolt on swap, it's still pretty easy. In the process of making brackets myself.
Grab the wheels! They will work on our cars, and you need at least a 16" wheel if you use the CVPI brakes on the front. While not fancy it's a cheap way to get into 16" tires while you save for the wheel and tire combo you want. |
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Lee Virden
1978 LTD II S |
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russosborne
Senior Member Joined: 01-January-2015 Location: Glendale AZ Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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Thanks, but that front brake swap is way more fab/machining than I can handle. My fab tools are pretty much a hacksaw and a drill.
Russ |
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russosborne
Senior Member Joined: 01-January-2015 Location: Glendale AZ Status: Offline Points: 664 |
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I still doubt if I could do the front brakes, and the thought of having to go with 16 inch wheels is not one I like, but do either of you have pictures of the brackets? Did you use any of the CV bracket? The seller said he'd take $60 for the front disks and calipers. Are the front brackets on the CV part of the spindles? And I am not clear on what you are doing with the hub cut from the Ranchero rotors?
Not something I could buy right now anyway, but he plans on keeping the car 'til August before he scraps the leftovers. Thanks, Russ Edited by russosborne - 02-June-2015 at 8:50PM |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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I used the CV caliper mounting bracket(I purchased remanned calipers with new mounting brackets/hardware once all fab work was completed), but had to fab-up the bracket to attach the caliper mounting bracket to the spindle. Here are some pics of the bracket and the cutdown Ranchero "hub", once rotor is removed the hub will need to be "lathed" to be of small enough diameter to fit inside the CV rotor, but not too small to have an issue with cracking around wheel studs(note wheel stud "shoulder" to center the CV rotor). 3/8" flat stock used for caliper mount to spindle, note dust shield "clearancing" for the CV caliper mounting bracket. Bracket shows holes drilled for CV caliper mounting bracket(2 larger holes) and the threaded hole to mount this bracket to spindle. Upper hole was modified with welding a grade 8 bolt that goes through the spindle and attaches with lock nut. Careful measuring is required due to close tolerances(NO grinding of spindle or "clearancing" so original bracket/brakes could be re-installed). Took about 3hrs for the 1st bracket and about 1hr or so for the 2nd. I re-used the CV's bracket mounting bolts, new caliper mounting bolts came with the remanned calipers. There are other pics of this mod at my Supermotors address. Hope this helps. Todd
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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unlovedford
Senior Member Joined: 17-December-2010 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 10142 |
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Besides the brakes (be sure to get the emergency brake cables intact), check into the exhaust system, pans, and A/C systems. Exhaust on a CVPI is true dual, stainless, and flows well for a mild build. The wheelbase is also almost spot-on, so length will be similar. By using a complete setup with some modifications, you will be able to run EFI and have the proper O2 sensor bungs, converters as well. Toss the factory mufflers, keep the cats and install a set of Flowmasters. The sound is incredible, no "eye-burning" smell from the exhaust, and 50 states clean. Your wife will appreciate it, I CAN assure you.
Pans can be used in a pinch to repair rotten sections, and the main floor brace is set up for bucket seats already. A/C system is vastly better than our existing units, and with some mods, it can be retrofitted to a '72-'79 shell. Don't ignore a Town Car, as it is setup in a very similar fashion. A 2002 is the last year for a worm and roller steering setup like our cars use. 2003 - up went to a cradle and R&P steering. Look for interchanges between steering components (boxes, tie rod ends, etc). Also, the earlier CVPI shock is a nice step-up in handling. 4.6 drivetrain components are not a direct fit. Look for aluminum driveshaft-equipped cars. With a simple modification or two, you can run a lightweight shaft in our cars and save weight and money. Wheels. The 1992-2002 wheels will work on our cars, but the offset is slightly different. Not very noticeable, but it bothered me enough to not use. 2003 - up will NOT work. Wiring harness for the body and chassis. I cannot stress enough how valuable getting this can be. Improvements in grounding, wire condition, plugs, relays, electric fan, sensors (again if running EFI and AOD), connectors, etc. All newer, better, and routed in a superior fashion. Remember, our wiring is 40+ years old and does not always take kindly to additions. |
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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I wanted to let anyone that had been contemplating doing the hub mod and crown vic brakes but was not interested in going with bigger wheels that I have been doing some research and I found that 96-97 Crown Vics have 11.45" brake rotor that did fit under 15" wheels. This would allow bigger brakes and possibly keeping our stock calipers. (I would need to have those rotors on the car to figure it out.) They would still require a fabricated caliper bracket though.
Also, the 92-95 brakes rotors which are 10.74" od and have the rotor surfaces far enough back from rotor mount flange that they may fit with the stock calipers in their existing locations with a small spacer at the upper bracket bolt, but this would still require the hub mod without much of brake rotor size increase so likely not worth the effort. Just things I have been looking at. |
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2765 |
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I own a 95 CV that a few years ago i upgraded the brakes to the 1998-02 CV version. The hubs on those swap, and while I was doing that I checked the fit of the rotors too from a JY car. I had read they would swap, so I bought the 2002 calipers and a brake line. It ended up being the calipers I needed, rebuilt, and new 98-01 rotors. That doesn't help I know for 15" wheels, but they fit inside 16" wheels if someone wanted those. Keep going, I like modifying brakes. Here's my custom 98 Mountaineer front brakes, 12.75" rotors for what I delivered mail with for a while. These fit inside OEM 16" wheels, that's about the limit for the rotor size. |
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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does adding the large rotor caliper brackets to the mix help? will any of the Crown Vic rotors work with the original calipers & brackets?
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72 GT Ute
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2765 |
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I'm going to find the later 70's spindles for my 73 which has 14" front wheels now. I would be interested in any parts that would improve the brakes. The Crown Vic rotors of the 90's and to 2002 have the same offset and bolt hole sizes. That's all I know about those models. The mid 90's models are good parts, the 98-02 are just a little larger in diameter. I didn't test any 15" wheel on those, I didn't think of going back to a 15" size for my use.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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Your '73 spindles should be the same as a '79 intermediate spindle, even the full size spindles(Lincoln, Grand Marquis, Big T-birds) use the same wheel bearings and seals as well as the same calipers and brake pads as a '73-'79 intermediate. To install larger O.D. factory 5 on 5" BC Lincoln brake rotor(11.79") on an intermediate only requires the full size/Lincoln caliper bracket. Hope this helps
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2765 |
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I thought the rotor size upgrade was during the 1973 model year, so I might have either spindle on my 73? I haven't yet pulled the wheels to look at the brakes etc, so I might already have the better spindle and caliper. I'm leaning to buy 15" wheels for the front for future resale, so most people would prefer the better rotor choice.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14606 |
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check the 73 spindles they could be the bigger bearing size??? but 74+ they were all the bigger bearings! i did the mark IV swap on my car big improvement!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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I don't think the original crown vic calipers are any smaller as far as wheel clearance, but the later models are dual piston. The older crown vic rotors 92-96? ( I already forgot the year cutoff) are just a shade bigger than our standard 10.72 od rotors but they should work if one was to mill down the original torino rotor to make a hub and they should be able to use standard torino caliper and brackets. The interesting question for me is the rotors off the 96-97 that are just under 11.5" od. The issue with those is that the rotor face is offset back of the hub flange only 1.5 or so inches. It would be awesome if the mark 5 caliper bracket would align the calipers but I don't have any of those to test with.
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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mkshelton
Senior Member Joined: 14-March-2012 Location: Sierra Vista Status: Offline Points: 357 |
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The reason I started down this rabbit hole, was I noticed that there were 97 Crown Vics with 15" wheels in Police duty.
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"Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually UNinventing the wheel"
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2270 |
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I should have said LATE '73 and up were the same, sorry for any confusion my reply may have caused.
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2765 |
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The 97 CV has the same brakes as the 92-96's, I had two 95 police CV's. I worked on this 95 to make it a mail vehicle back in 2002. I stopped using it when I decided it was too much harder to reach out the right window than my 93 Explorer(part time for snow). So I didn't do anything with the car until a few years ago, the last time it needed brakes. That's when I read of the larger 98-02 brakes, and those were common in JYd's then. I do wish the steering boxes would swap into the older Fords, the 1997 police CV had a very quick ratio in them. My 95 had a recall on the box, and trying to remove a bad pitman arm, the tool broke. I knew of the recall, and where a low mileage(13,700) 97 was, that I had already bought many parts from. I got the box not knowing it was fast ratio, for about $40. I love that fast steering, but you have to get used to it. The rear 03-06 Crown Vic brakes are the parts I most want to try out. I have a set of those from about 15 years ago, I didn't see an easy way to install them on my Explorer. But they should be easier for the 70's Fords, except for the parking brake cable needing a welded on bracket to hold it. I'd like to know how close the housing bolt circle is, drill four new holes and put them on. That would require a custom axle I'd bet, but they may not be too bad to get made. Those CV's had four channel ABS, so there are two lines to the rear on those. It would take a little work to combine the two caliper hoses to one "T" fitting.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2765 |
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It's okay, I was sure of the change in the 73 model, and I didn't want to go back and look it up again.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6059 |
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i think i knew i wasn't clear when i hit the button, i meant using the large rotor caliper bracket and stock 72-79 caliper with either a converted rotor to hub and rotor from a <2002 or 2003< to make a 2 piece assy that will have acceptable offset or another 1 piece rotor entirely. i remember there was talk of a Mopar rotor that held great promise |
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72 GT Ute
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2765 |
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From what I gather, using an old rotor cut down to mount a different rotor hat, does require a rotor with more offset than most rotors. I haven't gone through any of the brake threads to hunt for those measurements, but those would be wise to have on hand, to look for another rotor choice. I had two piece rotors made up for my Explorer, I chose a rotor hat(the center part) which had an offset close to stock for my SUV. I used a 1.45" offset hat and the rotor disc was very easy to buy, and a one day turn around. Coleman Racing makes rotors(the outer disc part) for almost anything, in one day. So a two piece rotor is about finding the center part, the hat, for a feasible cost. Mine were $175 each, in about 2005. The rotors were about $130 each back then, and haven't worn out yet(1.25" thick and 12.75" large). I'm aiming to go up soon, to a 1.375" rotor on the same hats, for a bigger caliper that has double thick pads. Find out what the offset is on the rotors which work on the cut down old rotors, and then you can better check other rotors. From my work on my Crown Vic's, I'd guess the offset is near 1.5", but probably a little less than that.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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forddude
Member Joined: 22-May-2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Hey fellas,
Revisiting this age old brake topic. Has anyone found a bracket solution for mounting the 2 piston crown vic or mustang calipers to our factory spindles? I read a couple members above built custom brackets but I don’t have that skill set. I haven’t found any company that builds caliper adapter brackets. Thanks in advance n happy holidays.
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72 GTS sportsroof, original survivor
72 GTS formal, parted 96 Tbird 4.6, 18k org mi 13 Stang 5.0 6spd |
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