Frozen engine |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Posted: 10-April-2020 at 10:59AM |
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My Q code 351 CJ is frozen. It has not turned over in several years. About 8 weeks ago, I put some transmission fluid into the cylinders, and let it set for a week. The next weekend, I placed a 15/16" socket 1/2" drive, on the crank bolt and tried to turn it, nothing. I bought a large jug of Marvel Mystery Oil and FILLED each cylinder. It has been soaking ever since (about 7 weeks now.) I try every once in awhile to turn that bolt. I even have added a 3 ft steel pipe for extra leverage on the wrench. It will not turn. I also checked the oil dipstick for an abnormally high read to see if anything is leaking around the rings, but it reads as normal.
Any advice????
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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hogfiddles
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: 19-September-2016 Location: Central NY Status: Offline Points: 1512 |
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well, that’s how I got my 429 unseized, and now it rolls over beautifully.
THAT said..... a technique that tractor restorers up here use with pretty good success—- Make sure the engine is not near anything that can burn—- strip the engine down and put some diesel fuelin the cylinders Light the diesel fuel and let it burn. The heat expands the block a bit and some diesel can work it’s way down past the pistons and strait to lubricate things a bit. The flame doesn’t go down past the piston so you don’t have to worry about any big boom
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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i've used diesel but never lit it but in theory it would work but may require doing it many times since it think it sounds seized bad as usually it will soak through the rings and into the pan but if it can't get through there it's corroded bad!!!
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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are you working the crank bolt in both directions? not hard enough to loosen it but enough to let it know you're there |
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72 GT Ute
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hogfiddles
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: 19-September-2016 Location: Central NY Status: Offline Points: 1512 |
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Agreed.... when I got my 429 freed, it was by bumping the breaker bar back and forth a few times each day, the give one or two good yanks each way. It took about three months until one day the bar squeaked about 1/16”. I had about that much motion for about a week before it moved farther. Then, one day in a period of about 20 minutes, it went to about 1/4 rotation to 1/3 rotation, to 3/4 rotation, and then full.
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Well, I have started the yanking on my bar both ways. Let's see how this goes....
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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Rockatansky
Senior Member Joined: 30-July-2010 Location: On The Road Status: Offline Points: 6072 |
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does it budge at all? |
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72 GT Ute
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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yeah do you get any movement? if any tiny movement then back and forth
are the water pump and alternator seized too? don't laugh... the 2v cleveland i have had them seized but not the engine! might want to remove the belts to lessen the effort |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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ilyes
Senior Member Joined: 09-January-2010 Location: Philadelphia PA Status: Offline Points: 3782 |
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Same with the clutch, disc could be frozen. Unless you have an automatic trans.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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It's a 4sp, and in neutral. I am getting ZERO movement. Not even the tiniest amount. The belts are still on, but they can be removed. I am thinking about trading my 2-3 ft cheater bar for a 7 footer for more leverage.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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Rons73
Member Joined: 22-November-2018 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 146 |
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A fellow I worked with back when I pulled wrenches worked on a lot of old tractors. Would get em from out in the woods and fix some, part some, just generally play around with them. To free up stuck pistons he would try pretty much everything, but as a last resort would use a modified spark plug with a grease zerk and just pump grease with a grease gun into the cylinder till something moved. To make sure the valves are closed pull the rocker arms on that cylinder. There is a good chance of hurting something so... Last. Resort.
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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if it's that bad you probably need to pull the heads and tap on the pistons with the handle end of a big hammer, or a solid piece of wood to hammer against so not to damage the piston! i've had to do that when other methods fail.
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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That thought has crossed my mind, to just go ahead and pull the heads. |
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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all the cars i parted out looked bad but all the engines lit right off with some work like a bad ECM and another with a plugged carb but they weren't froze even!! and fired off later with this one being stuck that bad you'll probably end up pulling the heads at some point anyway you may (or may not ) want to see in the cylinders...
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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That's just it, I don't want to see in the cylinders at this point!
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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handsofstone
Senior Member Joined: 13-April-2018 Location: Northeast Status: Offline Points: 3946 |
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Sounds like my last Mustang. I drove from Plymouth to Dedham with the pedal nearly to the floor and parked it. Went in the house and ate lunch and it wouldn't start. Starter engaged but nothing. Tried jump starting it and the wheels locked up. Breaker bar on damper, nothing. Next call was to Tosey's Mustang Farm in Wrentham for a flatbed.
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BadHabit351
Senior Member Joined: 21-June-2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Did you ever get it to break free?
If you pull the heads, take and mix a quart of atf and a quart of acetone. It makes for one hell of a penetrating oil. fill the cylinders as full as you can get them and let soak fror several days.
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1973/72 Gran Torino Sport
1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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Nope, never did break free. After I pulled the heads, I completely filled the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil. I put a 15/16 socket on the crank bolt and had a 5ft steel bar and worked on the bolt every few days jerking it back and forth in both directions. I even tried this technique with a buddy hitting the tops of the pistons with a dead blow hammer and a wooden 2x4. After 6 months of trying to get it to move even the tiniest bit and nothing.....I sold it last weekend.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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BadHabit351
Senior Member Joined: 21-June-2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Dang...never had one whoop me, but there's always a first time....sorry for your loss.
Any clue as what what caused it to sieze?
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1973/72 Gran Torino Sport
1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
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kychevyguy
Senior Member Joined: 16-December-2013 Location: Lexington KY Status: Offline Points: 1996 |
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I have never had one that I could not free up either. I have no clue as to the cause yet. I am hoping that the new owner will let me know what he finds. The car stayed locally.
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JT, USAF Ret./Architect
1971 Ford F100 "Lizzy" 1971 Cougar XR7 "Kitty" 1984 Chevy Silverado "Sylvia" 2009 Smart Fortwo Cabrio "Lil Dude" 2015 Volvo XC60 R-Design "Sven" |
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BadHabit351
Senior Member Joined: 21-June-2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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Thinking about it...I'll bet the crank was siezed instead of the cylinders. Soaking for a week with MMO should have resolved any issues with the pistons.
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1973/72 Gran Torino Sport
1971 Torino GT convertilble 2013 Ford Fusion 2004 Ford SuperDuty 2013 Mustang GT |
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hogfiddles
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: 19-September-2016 Location: Central NY Status: Offline Points: 1512 |
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farmers around here have a technique of pouring diesel fuel into each cylinder bore then lighting it on fire. It just sits there and burns, the heat expands the block, and hot fuel gets down through the rings. The typical wrench, pipe, hammer/block of wood are still used as needed
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
||
californiajohnny
Moderator Group Joined: 05-October-2013 Location: winlock, wa Status: Offline Points: 14609 |
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yeah crank must have been seized too? hammer and block of wood will do it!! if nothing else does
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JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2767 |
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Yeah, it will take removing many of the bolts and then the rod caps etc, to get things to loosen up.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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Big Bird
Senior Member Joined: 25-August-2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 4194 |
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I've done the "tap on the pistons" routine too. Did you know that the skirts break off easily on Ford Hypereuctectic pistons... Screw it, engine was broken anyways.
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