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Wholesale ignition swap

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BadHabit351 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23-November-2020 at 4:42AM
When I built my 393 stroker; I bought an MSD ready to run distributor and suggested coil.

Apparently, MSD isn't what they used to be. I had been having several tuning issues that I could not resolve consistantly. The straw that broke the camel's back was when I discovered my distributor was not returning from mechanical advance. Set the initial at 12 BTDC, drive the car and when you checked it again it was at varying ranges from 24 to 28 BTDC. Shut down the engine and most of the time it would return to 12...most of the time. A few times I had to roll start because the timing was so high, that 10.1:1 motor would not spin. I do have a PMGR starter. This seems to be an issue with MSD's in Fords (or any front distributor set up) and the fix is to send the distributor to MSD along with $140, they recoat the shaft, and send it back. Problem is; next year the issue rears its ugly head again.

After much internet investigating; I chose Todd Meyer's distributor....but it was not available in August and they weren't sure when it would be available again.

Next option was a good old Duraspark. I talked to the folks at Performance Distributors. They first recommended an HEI set up. Not judging those that have, but this old boy does not like the appearance of that huge cap and coil set up displayed on the front of a small block Ford. 

After several emails about their Duraspark, I decided that was my direction.

Some of the best money I've spent.

I bought the entire set up from them including the distributor, coil, and extended dwell spark box. After a quick & dirty installation; all I can say is HOLY MOLY! There was quite a bit of power unleashed and several frustrating tuning issues are gone.

I had a sputter that I could not tune out. Apparently, I fighting that over advanced timing. Their timing curve almost matches what I had set up exactly (had the dist been perfoming correctly...). Another cured issue was hard starting after sitting for a week. It was a 10 minute ordeal to get the rumble going. Now...as soon as fuel pressure gauge shoes pressure (about 5 spins of the engine), it fires. Very smooth power now from idle to WOT. The ED box also has a built in rev limiter...another bonus.

For full disclosure, I did install a new set of 8.5mm plug wires and a fresh set of plugs. I went with the Summit Racing wires (cut to fit) and good old Autolite plugs.

I had my other tach modified by Rocketman to run as God intended (- side of the coil) so that's next in installation.




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dan0R30 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dan0R30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2021 at 8:33AM
That sounds like a solid ignition system! I'm intrigued to say the least. I used an MSD dizzy and 6AL over 15 years ago but it seems like all I read are bad experiences now. I haven't heard of Performance Distributors but they must be a reputable shop as they have a backlog even outside their peak season (currently 6-8 weeks).

I've only started looking into some ignition options and just saw this post. Looks to be a good tuned Duraspark option and cheaper than an equivalent MSD setup. Is this a 12V ignition? If so, did you use a relay w/ existing ballast for your 12V source? Thanks for sharing your setup.
Dan

1970 Ford Torino hardtop - 351C 4V - FMX - 9" 3.89 TrueTrac
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BadHabit351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2021 at 1:35AM
MSD which is owned by Holley now, is mostly made in China...big shock, huh? I will never buy another MSD. Another American legend down the toilet.

Yes, it's a 12V coil. I wired in a relay that the 7V coil wire will trigger. I had my tach converted and will be eliminating that from the positive side. I have this thing about not cutting factory wiring harnesses, so the relay was the right answer for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dan0R30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2021 at 1:16PM
That is too bad about MSD...

I like the relay option. Splicing the factory wiring harness is definitely not on my list. Thanks for the info, I'll be putting this ignition on my top choices list. FWIW, I just realized that the Performance Distributors brand is the same as Davis Unified Ignition. I still don't have personal experience with their product but I HAVE heard of them. Summit even has a few of their products in stock.

Dan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2021 at 6:38PM
i have a davis unified ign  HEI dist. in my toyota celica! it was pricey but they set it up on their machine for my cam and carb set up custom dialed inWink they were the first to offer modified GM HEI dist. to fit non GM enginesBig smile

JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-February-2021 at 9:08AM
That's just funny right there, Johnny.
Distributor looks to be as big as the engine.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-February-2021 at 3:02PM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

That's just funny right there, Johnny.
Distributor looks to be as big as the engine.
it's the camera angle, but yes it's big but reliableWink it's extended to clear p/s res/ pump on toyota trucks which i don't have, i guess they offer a shorter one but this was all dialed in so...
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2021 at 8:46AM
Update:

Last weekend after getting the carb dialed in, I had the boss lady out for a spin showing her how that new carb functions. After about 50 miles; I developed misfire @ 1500 rpm and again from 2800 to 3000 rpm.

I was like: W.T.F.???

After doing a bunch of checking & testing; I called Performance Distributors. Apparently, the ED Box doesn't do what it should after a while. They said they tested them, but apparently, not enough. This item was pulled off the market & is no longer available. To their credit, they are issuing a full refund (including shipping both ways). Unfortunately, they do not have an alternative. They suggested I install a standard Duraspark II module. That's what I'm doing this weekend. 
1973/72 Gran Torino Sport
1971 Torino GT convertilble
2013 Ford Fusion
2004 Ford SuperDuty
2013 Mustang GT
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72 RS 351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2021 at 9:56AM
Interesting. Is it overheating at some point, and is it the box on the fender, or the unit in the distributor?
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2021 at 10:03AM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Interesting. Is it overheating at some point, and is it the box on the fender, or the unit in the distributor?

Mounted on the driver's inner fender where the windshield washer would normally be. It's the module that Durasparks have on the fender...and it's not even warm to the touch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dan0R30 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-July-2021 at 12:34AM
Thanks for the update. That explains why I couldn't find the box on their website back when I first posted a reply to this post! You can find the old page from Google but they don't link to it internally from their menus anymore. Now I'm glad I didn't buy one. Sorry about your bad luck though.

Man, is the duraspark now the only good remaining option? Quality has just gone down the drain everywhere. I see no other recommendations these days for electronic ignition other than Duraspark and sometimes HEI conversions. (Not that I have a problem with those, it's that nobody can make a product worthwhile anymore)
Dan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-July-2021 at 2:36AM
We used to convert the Chrysler modules. Same process as the GM ones, but look less ugly.
Mopar Performance/Direct Connection Chrome modules with a Chrysler pigtail are less obtrusive and performed well.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2021 at 1:44PM
Finished pulling the ED Box from Performance Distributors & replacing it with the blue module Duraspark II. The parts store module literally lasted 15 seconds. I replaced it with an old Motorcraft unit from "the parts bin" (collection of old, unwanted Ford cars & trucks in the back field). I ordered a new Motorcraft module (best reputation) but will ultimately build my own ignition with an HEI module & TFI coil later on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2021 at 1:45PM
Originally posted by dan0R30 dan0R30 wrote:

Thanks for the update. That explains why I couldn't find the box on their website back when I first posted a reply to this post! You can find the old page from Google but they don't link to it internally from their menus anymore. Now I'm glad I didn't buy one. Sorry about your bad luck though.

Man, is the duraspark now the only good remaining option? Quality has just gone down the drain everywhere. I see no other recommendations these days for electronic ignition other than Duraspark and sometimes HEI conversions. (Not that I have a problem with those, it's that nobody can make a product worthwhile anymore)

From my latest experience; Duraspark distributors are the best we have availble, for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2021 at 1:57PM
Originally posted by BadHabit351 BadHabit351 wrote:

I will ultimately build my own ignition with an HEI module & TFI coil later on.
 
I found this to be my best option, been using my cobbled together ignition system for a few years now with absolutely no issues. Good luck with your build.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-July-2021 at 5:46PM
Is there any way to adapt the later model EFI ignition parts to older Fords? The later distributors and TFI modules etc, and coils, are still common and reasonably reliable. The TFI inside the distributor is a small weak link, some people have remote located those.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-July-2021 at 2:34AM
Problem with those is they are a computer controlled unit, tied into the EFI.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-July-2021 at 3:09AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Problem with those is they are a computer controlled unit, tied into the EFI.


The distributor is harder to find now given the later systems, and you still have to have a mechanical and vacuum advance timing control. Those are still available, but just less common.

The main control module or amplifier is the part which seems to be less reliable than far in the past. I still have a Mallory Hyfire module some place, and a system from Jacobs. Both were usable on stock EFI Fords, but they weren't for timing control either.

I wonder if those can be used for an older system with that kind of distributor? If they can, then there are still lots of those ignition system choices, MSD and a few other brands had lots to choose from 20 years ago. Now some are out of business, and the available new parts is far less too now.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-July-2021 at 10:56AM
here's how to wire a gm module to a ford dist.

JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-July-2021 at 12:31PM
and the 5 pin with spark retard on start, diagram might look familiar?


72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-July-2021 at 1:56PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

and the 5 pin with spark retard on start, diagram might look familiar?


Yep, that is my 3rd grade drafting skills on display right there, used colors and all.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-July-2021 at 1:11PM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

and the 5 pin with spark retard on start, diagram might look familiar?


Yep, that is my 3rd grade drafting skills on display right there, used colors and all.
Crayon 101 at your local Communisty College? Big smile
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BadHabit351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-July-2021 at 3:54PM
What are you guys using for a heat sink?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-July-2021 at 9:59PM
i've used 1/8" aluminum sheet about 3" x 6" mount it up of off any steel so its got air flow around it for heat dissipation!!!
 
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-July-2021 at 11:25AM
I gutted an old battery isolator for my 5 pin HEI module's heat sink, never had an issue, just make sure to use the "CORRECT" thermally conductive paste and not dielectric grease.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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