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400 cid

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drowssap1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drowssap1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 400 cid
    Posted: 18-August-2021 at 3:15AM
 so I'm looking in one of my sheds a while back and i came across a motor and tranny that i pulled from a 72/73 ltd conv. a million years ago.
the engine is 400 2v with what i believe they called a fmx transmission, definitely not a c6 pattern so it is not a later modified/400.

I don't see a lot of correct information on the web, mostly truck people who say it doesn't exist.

can i do anything with this engine for low dollars that would wake it up and put it back to use?
looks like the problems are compression, cam and intake from what i have read..

would increasing the compression to say 9.5-10 to 1, w/ a CJ cam and aluminum intake result in a stroked 351C ?

has anyone found any stock pistons that will raise compression? lloks like after market pistons are $500 or so.

if it were yours and your had very few dollar what would you do with it?

thanks

wouldn't be an everyday driver, just something to beat on now and then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2021 at 5:05AM
Welcome, and does it have the SBF bell housing pattern, seen below? That would be a nice unique 400, those were very early models until they made them all big block patterned.


The 400 is a good engine, it's just very heavy and there aren't many intakes or pistons to choose from. The 2V heads are very good and a great match to that 400 size. For a DD, I'd aim it for regular fuel, which could be 9.5:1 or so with the right cam to allow that.

I'm not sure what the best 400/351M intake would be, I'd keep it below 5000 rpm for sure, or else you need to do the Cleveland oil restrictor stuff, which is always a good idea for that oiling system. If the aftermarket intake adapter plates were still available, I might try those and use a Cleveland intake, such as the RPM Air Gap.

I own a few 400 part myself, so I have thought over what to do if I ever built it for basic street use. I'd choose a custom cam to optimize power and fuel, that's a good $200 extra, and opt for might pistons even for $500. I have finished 400 rods(polished) and TRW pistons, but those are old school and heavy pistons. They are solid and reliable, but the weight likely costs 15hp at the top end(minor I know).
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2021 at 8:15AM
Hello, welcome.

I am putting together a 400 now for a low buck (2021 version of low buck,,, not 1974 version of "Low Buck") big inch upgrade for a 351w.

The real issue with these engines as delivered from the factory in my opinion is the extremely large piston to deck clearance, or how far down in the hole the piston sits.

If you do not address this issue, it is my opinion that you are wasting your time & money because the quench will be way off and it will ping / detonate badly no mater what else you do, or you will need to knock the tune so far out of it, it will not run good at all.

The second issue, although not as big a deal is lack of available 400 piston selections, but 351c pistons can be used, and I scored a set of .040 over forged speed pro's for $200.00.

Block Prep:

Send to machine shop with pistons.

Deck the block .070 to get a zero deck height (+/- .005).

Bore block / fit pistons, press pitons on rods, and balance rotating assembly.

Assemble short block with normal prep and process, no oil system mods or restrictions, nothing fancy other than a high volume oil pump.

This will give you a 410 inch, forged piston, safe to 6500 RPM foundation.

If you had a bigger budget, I would consider upgrading the connecting rods depending on the intended application, but for a street terror that sees the drag strip occasionally or pickup truck, this setup will work very good.

As previously stated, intake manifold selection is limited, but for a dual plane I like the Weiand Action plus, for a single plane I like the old Holley Street Dominator for 2V heads.

2v Australian heads were a popular option at one time now the off brand import aluminum heads are about the same cost wise as getting and outfitting a set of old iron heads, your choice.

If you want to go the 351c 4v heads, you need to use the PME adapter plates or put port stuffers in the intake port on the heads, but all this is out the window on the "Low Buck" concept.

Pick your cam & headers.

Assemble and thrash.

Thanks, Mike H.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2021 at 8:40AM
I would skip the idea of using 400 pistons, as said the down in the hole distance is terrible. Find a piston with a taller deck height that will reduce the gap up to the heads. The TRW pistons I mentioned are 351C .020 versions. On the stock 400 rods and 4V heads I was expecting near 10:1 compression.

I don't know what pistons are available right now, but there are so many choices, I'd bet there is one that will make the compression you want, and not require too much machine work. The rub becomes the cost, piston weight, and is it forged or not, plus availability. There are some really light and strong Windsor pistons to be had for $500, from last year. Hopefully a Cleveland piston is made in that range too. I suggest spending more on pistons, and save on other less important items. Pistons are critical in any build.

PME was the company who makes the intake adapters, I forgot the name. They had adapter plates for a 400 that would let you use any 351C intake. That would be best for either 2V or 4V heads, if they are still available. I like the RPM Air Gap for best overall power band, the single plane intakes make less power at all but high rpm(4000 and up).
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2021 at 12:19PM
Welcome!  I have a built 400 in my Torino, mind you it wasn't a budget build.  Part of the big cost in my build was the retro roller cam and roller rockers.  Skip that and the price would be more reasonable.  With my 400, it is a pretty mild build overall, but it runs strong.  I upgraded to about 9.3:1 compression, but used stock heads (with new stainless one piece valves), used an Edelbrock intake, a Holley 670, and Hooker Super Comp long tube headers.  

Like other's mentioned, the biggest problem with a 400 is the pistons.  Low compression and too far down in the hole.  There are two options.  First is to use a 351C piston but the rods have to be bushed for them to work.  The other option is to use Track Boss pistons from TMI (this is what I use in my engine).   They will bump the compression and use a stock 400 pin and rod.  Plus Tim Meyer is one of the few guys that supports the 400 engine, and he's great to deal with.


If you get some decent pistons, run something like a Comp 268H cam, either the Weiand or Eddy intake, and a set of headers, it should run pretty strong and for pretty cheap.  The only other big cost in that list is the headers.  Hooker Super Comps fit a Torino chassis well, but are very expensive.  Sanderson makes shorty's that are cheaper and "might" fit a Torino, but no one has tried.

Maybe our resident 335 engine expert will also chime in - calling Rockatansky!

Good luck and keep us posted. 
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-August-2021 at 12:49PM
I could dig out my 400 rods and pistons that I mentioned, if they might be an option for you. As I said, they are TRW forged, the same part number I used in my first 351C-4V in 1980, and bought them again for the 400. I'm pretty sure they are .030 over, I was going to use .020 over in my old 72 351C block.

The rods I had polished, balanced, and the pins bushed for the pistons, they are assembled, in a box. Back then the 400 was the longest rod bolt, nobody made a bolt for the 400 except Ford and Pioneer. I got the Pioneer bolts and used SPS nuts on them. ARP was not interested in making such a long rod bolt back then, I have no idea what rod bolts are available today.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drowssap1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2021 at 12:30AM
thankyou all time to ponder now that i know it is possible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kychevyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-August-2021 at 1:02AM
Interesting project you have there. I have a 351M/400 in my 76, so I am following along here.
JT, USAF Ret./Architect
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