Gran Torino Sport four speed install |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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Posted: 30-January-2010 at 1:37PM |
I finally got my toploader rebuilt. new input shaft , syncros, shift rails and seals.
Today i started ripping the interior apart. column, brake booster, and pedal assy.
you can see under the dash to the left of where the column went through, there was a perforated spot in the factory insulation where you can pull it out and have a nice hole for the clutch rod. Ford even puts a little dimple in the center for the hole saw to go
Now, for the questions! the new clutch brake pedal assy... has a different attachment point for the master cyl pushrod, its lower that my old auto one on the left. Is this new pedal assy from a manual brake car? it wasnt advertised as such , but i didnt know of a difference either. whats the best way to remedy this?
lastly, anyone have any header suggestions for a 302/351w four speed car?, i have hedman ceramic coated ones, but they dont look like they will work. Edited by ramair351 - 18-October-2010 at 1:44PM |
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Pete, I ran into that very issue on my GTS when I added the lincoln power brakes, my car was originally a manual brake car.
Can't use the power brake booster, you will need to get creative. My suggestion, take the grind the weld on the power brake pedal, and tap out the pivot. Lay the pedals side by side, and drill a hole, and tap in the pivot, and weld it into the 4 speed pedal. Manual cars need more leverage I am assuming for pedal operation. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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I'm glad somebody else has has run into this, thats what i figured i should do. I see if i can get that done today.
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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haw_y_n_merc
Member Joined: 17-April-2007 Location: Hawaii Status: Offline Points: 186 |
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That is correct, the pedal you have is for manual brakes, you can mod it, or look for another pedal. everything else will be the same.
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haw_y_n_merc
Member Joined: 17-April-2007 Location: Hawaii Status: Offline Points: 186 |
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BTW, who did you go through for the rebuild on your toploader?
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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an old ford mechanic and i did it ourselves,with the ford service manual. i used parts from david kee toploaders, and KajunJon on ebay.
today i found the holes in the frame for the z-bar bracket. they are hexed holes, but no threads. I believe some sort of well nut goes there. any ideas? Edited by ramair351 - 31-January-2010 at 8:32AM |
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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looks like i need these headers. Hedmen 88650 shortys $150
but i may have some full length ceramic coated ones for sale for a 302/351 if anyones looking.
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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I forget the technical name of the nut, but it's a compression blind rivet. Basically, Ford from what I recall used a large pneumatic rivet driver with the captive nutzerk that got rivited in the frame. They are still made, go to a place that is an industrial hardware place.
Alternative, drill the hole out slightly, weld a nut to a piece of flat stock and burn it to the frame. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Are you running a 351c?
I've been told on the cleveland by a couple engine guys, not a good idea to do shorties, the heat will crack the welds on shorties. Can not say the same for the windsor crowd however. This is going off what I was told by the guy that does the FPA headers when I was looking for a solution to my header problem, before I modified my headers that I had. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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my GTS came with a 351w, factory. but its a canadian built car too.
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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got a few things done today. re-located the booster stud on the brake pedal with Andys tip. got it tig welded in nicely, and the old hole filled up.
Then i drilled the hole in the firewall for the clutch rod boot. 2.5 holesaw worked perfectly.
here is the 2 hex holes in the frame for the Z bar bracket, that take the special rivit nuts. They are still available from FoMoCo. i have one sitting in there, but they really need to be riveted in before the body goes on. otherwise its near impossible to squash them by hand. i may try to tack weld them in.
here is what the rivit inserts look like. i have cut a groove around it trying to make it collapse better, but it hasnt worked so well. will keep you posted.
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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heres the Hedders i bought, Hedmen 88650 shortys, they are supposed to clear the factory z-bar. It should be about where i put the impact socket in this picture. ( hopefully)
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Like the look...I had to loop one of my tubes to clear the steering box.
How that tube kicks up. Make sure your PS lines clear. May want to get some high heat boots if it is close.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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crazy question, what if i just did the drivers side, and left the long tube hedmen on the rh side? think the power balance would be that much off? the long tube and the short tube are both hedman elites.
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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mcford
Senior Member Joined: 31-May-2003 Location: Utica, Michigan Status: Offline Points: 2160 |
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it'd look kinda silly.............
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Eliteman76
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I'd say to leave the shorties as a set.
Long tube vs short tube, I would not mix them. This is why I made my long tubes work for me...
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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i was just talking a temporary thing, while i test and tune, until i could afford a trip to the exhaust shop. no drag racing!
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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well got alot done today, and ran into a few problems... first some pictures of FMX removal.
the 3" h-pipe was a mother* to remove from the flowmasters.
gotta pound a pilot bearing in here.
i found this factory tab on the firewall near where the z bar goes. does a clutch return spring go here?
got the Z bar mocked up. also tack welded the well nuts previously discussed into the frame. they hold 'well' Yes I know the gearbox is greasy, but its concours correct 30 year old original grease.
Now the big problem. The Hedman 88650 shorty headers, WILL NOT WORK with a manual trans Z-bar. the description in the catalog says so, but the listing also say 68-73 mustang fairlaine torino etc. so they got a little too liberal in their coverage without checking. On the hunt now for different headers......
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Pete-
I used my set of $99 dynomax headers on my 351c 2v engine, and modified the last tube on the driver's side to clear the Z bar and fit around my steering box by cutting and trimming the tube, using tape to hole it to shape and having a shop bend it up. Don't want to thread jack, but here is what I did: I still happen to have one more of those pieces of pipe I had bent up by the muffler shop, when they did mine, I have 3 extras bent up incase I needed a template. Andy
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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you did a good job with that tube. i still am hoping i can find a set my windsor, looking at these right now. they key is they need to drop right down before the bellhousing.
these are a 70 mustang application, but if i remember right, the gearbox is in the same relative location as a torino Edited by ramair351 - 14-February-2010 at 2:34AM |
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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p.s. andy, what did you think about the tab on the firewall?
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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neejah
Member Joined: 13-June-2009 Location: GA Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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QUOTE=ramair351]
got the Z bar mocked up. also tack welded the well nuts previously discussed into the frame. they hold 'well' Yes I know the gearbox is greasy, but its concours correct 30 year old original grease.
Now the big problem. The Hedman 88650 shorty headers, WILL NOT WORK with a manual trans Z-bar. the description in the catalog says so, but the listing also say 68-73 mustang fairlaine torino etc. so they got a little too liberal in their coverage without checking. On the hunt now for different headers...... [/QUOTE]
Pete, Looks like a nice garage - with a lift, is it yours? I'm interested in this as I'm in the process of doing a manual conversion on my '72......dragging on a bit (around 3 months now) but that's due to my slowness! Anyway, I've sorta siamesed a fox body pedal box with the Torino one - giving a cable operated clutch.......I've already put the adjuster in the old speedo cable hole. If I could've got hold of a manual pedal box at a decent price with Z-bar I would've gone your route......looks easier! Still got to finish off the pedal box - had to move the quadrant down & across to clear the Torino bulkhead, and also to start on a cross member for the 5 speed.......plenty to do - keep up the good work though! Regards Neil
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Pete-
On that tab, I really have no clue. ON my car, the spring loops into the hole on the Z bar-atleast, when I tore my car down, the spring was tied into the pivot arm and a hole on the z bar. I would take pics...but you know the drill. Andy
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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Neil, yea thats my garage.
i applaud your courage to modifiy a cable clutch setup. beacuse buying this original stuff just about broke me. Edited by ramair351 - 18-October-2010 at 1:46PM |
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Personally, if I was starting from scratch, I would of ditched the entire pedal setup, and gone to wilwood for their master cylinder clutch pedal setup, and run a hydraulic clutch setup.
But seeing as how I drug my project kicking and farting from a barn after 17 years, I stuck with the leg muscle, fat burning, left leg of iron clutch pedal setup with old school 3 finger clutch set. Screw easy clutch engagement! I want something that I know will work.
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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you gotta put on a 40lb throttle return spring so your right leg gets the workout the left one does!
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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mike7379
New Member Joined: 01-October-2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Thanks..this thread has just revamped my interest in my "stick swap" into my '72.I am torn between both methods,as i also modded a mustang cable pedal to sort of work..still needs some fine tuning.(The bulkhead is definitely LOW on these cars.)After I got that into the car,I got a great deal on a factory 4-speed assembly w/z-bar.
Im going to keep an eye on this thread,to help me decide which will be less work.Sorry i have nothing useful to add.....
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ramair351
Senior Member Joined: 08-May-2006 Location: west michigan Status: Offline Points: 1561 |
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-Pete
1972 montego GT 1970 Torino cobra SCJ 1970 mustang mach 1 1965 Falcon futura |
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neejah
Member Joined: 13-June-2009 Location: GA Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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I actually looked at this too - you can get some great deals on Willwood or Tilton pedal boxes - I thought I'd give it a go at $30 for the mustang pedal box and $30ish for some hardware (plus $45 for adjusters cables etc.......it all adds up!).......the only issue I could forsee with the pedal boxes from Tilton or Willwood was the servo - but I'm sure it would be easy to fab something up...... Apologies for the thread hijack...... Neil
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Eliteman76
Admin Group Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 5044 |
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Well, my thought was originally when I had my red 1976 Elite, I was going to run a clutch pedal bolted to the floorpan, that any of the imca/dirt track racer catalogs sell.
I've also seen the pedal setup in person on a couple really nice high end cars, and guys like them, easy enough to install. Only thing I don't like is the idea of the master cylinders on the inside of the firewall. I figured if I got the floor bolt pedal, run a 80's 300 inline 6 F series bell housing meant for a hydraulic clutch on the trucks, and go from there. I stumbled into my GTS before I got much past the bench racing session with the hyd clutch. Andy
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod
Pondering: #99Problems |
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