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INFO: Broken Cross Member End Nuts/Hardware

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fordismyboss View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: INFO: Broken Cross Member End Nuts/Hardware
    Posted: 07-January-2017 at 1:49PM
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Wanting to remove the C4 tailshaft housing to replace the bearing but got stopped when the attaching/alignment frame clips sheared off on both sides of the cross member.Angry

Tried to lay different sizes of square stock against the frame to stop the nut from spinning, but no luck. The bolt and nut inside the frame rail just spins in place with the attaching/alignment frame clip now broken away.

Any thoughts on what to do? Thanks!

Cross member end bolt


Broken attaching/alignment frame clip

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aquartlow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-January-2017 at 2:44PM
Take a sawzall with metal cutting blade and cut the bolt head off flush with cross member so you can remove it and the nut inside the frame, then weld an 1/8" thick piece of flat stock(gusseted where needed) to a new corresponding nut that fits the new bolt, just make sure the flat stock/nut will fit into the access hole. Make sure to leave enough length on the flat stock so it will "wedge" against inside of frame while tightening the bolt. Back in "bidness", no problem.

Edited by aquartlow - 07-January-2017 at 2:48PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-January-2017 at 2:47PM
you could try heating with a torch, let the heat soak up to the nut then try the flat stock thing. or cut the head of the bolts off, and replace them with new ones, weld the keeper pieces to the new ones to replace them
JOHN
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Big Bird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 2:20AM
Torch the bolts carefully, or centerpunch and drill the heads off like cutting a rivet.
you could also bend a cheap box-end wrench to get to the nut. Make it so it will go in the hole next to the crossmember and then hold the bolt.


Edited by Big Bird - 08-January-2017 at 2:23AM
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 3:44AM
Just cut the bolts off and put new stuff on. I reused some extra nuts I had for the front upper control arms. They have a wing crimped on as well. I believe they are 1/2"-13. Use grade 8 bolts and washers.

Edited by Billy C - 08-January-2017 at 3:44AM
-Billy Conturo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 5:00AM
OK, I'll check the front upper arms and see what size box wrench will fit that nut, as I cannot determine  what size wrench to bend! Hopefully its the same as the cross member nut. If this does not work, I'll use the saws-all, something I did not want to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qcode72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 11:42AM
a 15/16s wrench for the bolt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Regul8r 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-January-2017 at 6:25PM
just grind the head off, remove the crossmember and fish the junk nuts out of the frame.
 
I used a couple large bolts with their nuts, welded a tab to the nut and re-installed!
 
Carl, Member/Admin since 07. Still the same admin/moderator REGUL8R just needed a 2nd account for more picture space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 7:45AM
agreed. I'd use a 4.5" electric grinder, take slices through the head and cut it off. Sawzall would work as well and minimal sparks.
Last I recalled you can put a wrench up in the frame, thing 15/16 or 7/8" but I am fuzzy on the size to be honest.
Andrew: Long time Torino guy and GTS.ORG admin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 10:45AM
I had to bend the wrench a bit to make it work.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 12:30PM
I used a sawzall, turned the bolt sideways and took a steep angle so I hit the opposite side of the bolt on the cut.

Then 90 degrees to that cut, plunged an angle grinder with a 3 inch hard disk into the "Wedge".

Once I ground it deep enough, I use a cold chisel to knock the burr off.

Sounds involved, but took about 10 minutes per side.

Make sure you support the crossmember before you get too far into it.

I have the correct clips and think they are still available.

Pictures attached, Mike H.










Edited by mtburger - 10-January-2017 at 12:31PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 12:41PM
As I looked at Mike's pictures, I realized that mine were different. I had short bolts dropped in from above with nuts and lockwashers on the bottom. Someone had probably pre-broken these and substituted bolts.
I did replace with new bolts and nuts, and used the wrench to put the bolt in and hold it while tightening.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtburger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 4:19PM
I am pretty sure that was a 1972 year only thing.

The 1973 and forward frames have the "Ears" welded on each side, and the crossmember sits on top of them, with the bolts.

This crossmember is bolted right into the frame rail as pictured, there is no place to put a wrench.

The clips are the same as the ones used to mount the front bumper brackets to the frame on the 73 up cars.

Mike H.



Edited by mtburger - 10-January-2017 at 4:22PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-January-2017 at 5:09PM
Originally posted by mtburger mtburger wrote:

I am pretty sure that was a 1972 year only thing.

The 1973 and forward frames have the "Ears" welded on each side, and the crossmember sits on top of them, with the bolts.

This crossmember is bolted right into the frame rail as pictured, there is no place to put a wrench.

The clips are the same as the ones used to mount the front bumper brackets to the frame on the 73 up cars.

Mike H.

i agree with mike
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-January-2017 at 9:30AM
No ears. bolts dropped in thru the frame holes from above, nuts and lockwashers on the bottom.
Pic is probably best way to explain..
 
bolts were beat-up, may have been cut shorter after install. Pulled engine/trans together without dropping crossmember, had to drop it to re-assemble. New bolts went in with washer/lockwasher on bolt in frame. not any worse than changing a Chevy motor mount, or any non-Chevy GM frame perch.
Trans was about a year old in the car when I got it, maybe the shop that did the trans broke the clips...
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skinnys Garage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-January-2017 at 11:14AM
My early '73 has the bolt/clip through the frame also. Later '73s made the change to frame "ears".
Scott -'73 Gran Torino Brougham

Past Torino's -'73 Q-code GTS, '76 Original PS-122 S&H, '73 H-code GTS, '73 Ranchero
        '71 Cobra 351 Auto, '70 351C Brougham 2dr HT, '71 351C Ranchero
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-January-2017 at 11:49AM
Starting to wonder if i'm confusing the current car with one of the other one's I've screwed with...
Or if I have the wrong crossmember under my car...
Getting old sucks... but it beats the alternative...
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 9:49AM
Did chase this a bit. Mine has the correct crossmember, but I have the wrenches I bent to reach in the holes...
Talked to one of my buddies - I think I'm I'm losing my mind or something. He got a laugh out of it. His Mark V had no driveline and the ears burned off the frame when we got it. Solution was to use the crossmember from an early car and drill holes to install. We salvaged a crossmember at the junkyard, and installed it (in 1990, 27 years ago). We have had it in and out a couple times since, and it has bolts with 7/8" heads dropped in from the top. Bent a couple cheap wrenches to fit in the frame and hold the bolt.
Knew I have had this aggravation before, couldn't remember where.
 
 
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 9:56AM
Pretty sure I can get a 7/8" socket in the access hole. Will also bend a wrench. I'll let y'all know what happens! Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 1:43PM
if you figure out the size, just get a single cheap wrench from harbor freight the heat and bend Wink
 yes the nut thing on a 73 up bumper bracket are the same.
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
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70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qcode72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 1:54PM
you can go to the dealer and look in the ford standard; hardware catologue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 2:14PM
I can't guarantee the factory bolts were 7/8" heads as the current bolts came from a hardware store.
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-February-2017 at 3:49PM
i was able to get on the busted loose spinning nut inside the frame w/o bending a wrench, just use the offset of the box end and it worked for me. get it apart and put some decent tack welds to hold the nut retainer, then run a tap through the nut and use anti-sieze Clap 
72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2017 at 4:20AM
Yes, the nuts are 7/8', but as you can see in the photos, the swedging(sp) on the nut will not allow a 12 point socket to fit, it will just spin! Only a 6 point 7/8" socket will fit with a small breaker bar, if you are lucky, and suggest trying a deep sock too as the bolt may be too tall for a short socket. After much efort, I could not get it to work so I had the bolts torched off. Now way to get a wrench, open end or box, into the access hole unless you massively enlarge the access hole; not recommended. The bolts are 9/16 - 12tpi. I made temporary nuts and bolts to get the GTS back on the road, will make a new set using the correct size nut/bolt and perhaps put the welded tang on the bolt head and point it down with the nut outside...but?

 Auveco says they do not make the clips.  









Edited by fordismyboss - 16-February-2017 at 4:39AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2017 at 4:45AM
Rockatansky has a good solution too. Use the old clip by welding what is left to the old(restored) nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2017 at 2:25PM
What started this thread was the need to replace the tail shaft bushing in the GTS C4. I supported the tranny with a transmission jack at the pan, unbolted the cross member support and let it lay on the exhaust pipes and carefully removed the tail shaft so as not to damage the original gasket. I used a 1/2" drive socket, turned upside down, that was a bit smaller than the bushing and drove it out the end of the tail shaft. I used another 1/2" drive socket that was just a bit larger than the bushing and drove it in from the outside end of the tail shaft. I just lubed the new bushing and housing very well and it went right in.

Here is the old bushing showing where the yoke was running a grove in the bushing.


I used scotch bright and WD40 to polish the yoke before I reinstalled it in the new bushing below.


After a good long test drive, I let the GTS sit over night and no leaks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-February-2017 at 6:09PM
  Clap you got this!!! that's what i would have done Thumbs Up
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fordismyboss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-April-2017 at 4:18PM
Took me a while to complete this thread, but I could not get anything 7/8, wrench, socket, or a wedge inside the frame to secure the nut, so I had the bolts torched off. I made two smaller temporary nuts with flanges that work well, but then I took the original nuts and bolts off my '73 Montego donor car and made these:

 

 

They are 9/16-12 factory bolts with a flange welded on. I'll put the bolt inside the frame which is reverse from 1972 stock, but will perhaps allow for a jam nut. 
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Thumbs Up
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carguy47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-April-2017 at 11:57AM
That is just about what I had to do as well. The only difference, I welded the nut in the center of the drilled out flat stock. Painted it and Anti-siezed the sucker.
You have to build em to drive em!
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