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INFO: Welding and Rust Repairs for Dummies |
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srwith 
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Joined: 04-September-2010 Location: North E. FL Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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 Topic: INFO: Welding and Rust Repairs for DummiesPosted: 28-January-2012 at 2:43AM |
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Watching Malcolm's build, a subject came up about BUTT or OVERLAP welds. Here is my question that after either is done the subject of rust developing how do you keep the inside area from rusting that you cant get to. I am only using malcolm as you can see how much work his doing and the great job he is doing. Now I can do the welding just lack everything there is to know about painting or undercoating. For bummies
 like me I had to ask the pro's. Thank's Guy's The Other Scott(srwith) PS: Jeff now you see why I want to keep your A-- here in florida.
Edited by 72 GTS 429 - 05-February-2012 at 9:26PM |
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 two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 3:19AM |
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OK when you prep the metal for welding you have to grind the paint or primer off the areas you intend to weld.Then any areas tht overlap and will be unprtected as you can't prime them after they are welded you spray a Weld Thru primer such as this on only the areas that overlap.Either mark and tape off the area of metal where the coating is to be applied or wipe off the excess overspray with lacquer thinner after the panel have been clamped or welded together
This helps with rust forming between the metal you joined for welding  there are many brands who make it this is just one example
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 3:45AM |
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when you do an overlap joint,if possible after the welding and grinding is done the outter usually gets body fillers to smooth and hide the seam but what to do with the inside?
Now if your overlap seam is seen like inside the quarter in the trunk you might want to sand or grind the metal and prep it for either,All Metal,Kittyhair or Duraglass body fillers which are strong on joints and won't crack as easy as regular body filler. Try to hammer and dollie the metal flat as possible before applying any body fillers over it to hide the seam.If you not to concerned on looks like areas inside a door or front of the quarter where it can't be seen then spray it with some self etching primer which they sell in a spray can and eiher seam seal over the joint with some quality automotive body seam sealer then apply some Rubberized Undercoating or if you can't get seam sealer in the joit then prime it and undercoat it the best you can to prevent corrosion later.areas such as the bottom lip of doors and quarters where you have put on a new panel they make a wax undercoat that you can spray in and it will be liquid and seap into the crevis then turn to a wax like substance that will help keep moisture out.It can be sprayed into the wheel wel areas after you have replaced a quarter skin to help keep it from rotting out again.  |
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 3:49AM |
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See Scott answers are not that far away,I don't have to be in Florida to help you or any others who have technical questions on Autobody related topics.
yes doing the work for you presents a problem but it is cheaper to do it yourself as paying a guy like me get awfully expensive and better to do as much as possible yourself and pay someone o do stuff that you absolutely can't do yourself. The beauty of Mig Welding s you don't have to be an expert to learn how and as long as you get good penetration and the welds don't look pretty you simply grind them down anyway so really after all said and done there is nothing horrible to look at.Just make sure your welds fill in all along the seam unless you are doing plugwelds which we can get into that later
Edited by 72 GTS 429 - 28-January-2012 at 3:53AM |
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srwith
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Joined: 04-September-2010 Location: North E. FL Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 5:14AM |
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Ok here is a place to be patched. how to coat the inside to keep from rusting from inside out after welding
Edited by 72 GTS 429 - 28-January-2012 at 10:50AM |
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two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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Eliteman76
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Joined: 20-March-2006 Location: Nebraska, USA Status: Offline Points: 4916 |
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 7:36AM |
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Man, what is it will all the cowl rot cases I have been seeing lately.
I sware I need to saving these panels! I will say as Jeff pointed out, the overlap, you coat with weld through primer. I still scratch off where I am going to weld, say like a rosette weld {punched hole in top panel, and welding to panel below}. Only concern, be careful about not breathing in too much of the fumes, ESPECIALLY if galvanized metal. In my GTS, I think I went through a half dozen cans because I was spraying anything bare. Example: Fender repair, replacing the supports on my NOS fenders:  A small patch I had to do on the trunk floor:  In the case of a butt weld, I did this on the center of my door. I sprayed the inside of the door as much as possible:   Repair of the A pillar, I had to fix both sides due to rot:    Fixing the wheel house lip:     On the welding of the quarter panel...before we had to hack off the top and fix my over-exhuberant welding job...  Another place that was sprayed, in the quarter panel/jamb area.  |
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 Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed RestomodPondering: #99Problems |
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 8:45AM |
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Dang Scott,you should have told me that you needed the cowl. The one on the 73 was good and cut it up and scrapped it.You could had it along with the tailpanel I saved for you
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 11:16AM |
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ok DON'T do as Andy has done and use the Weld Thru Primer to prime the metal after welding
it is not for that purpose,it is only to be used where the metals overlap and yes if you do Plug Welds which is what Andy was trying to describe is when you drill or punch holes in the one piece metal that overlaps onto another piece and you fill the hole with weld.You then clamp your 2 pieces together and either scratch the Weld Thru coating off inside the whole or use a small wire wheel to clean the coating off before welding.Also if you spray it along the panel such as a partial skin or patch panel,after you have the piece clamped in position wipe off the excess with thinner as it contaminates the weld during welding.The name is a little deceiving but I guess it is because you can use a Resistance Spot Welder with it and it will weld through the coating but along the edge of metals or holes the coating should be removed before welding. use a self etching primer or acrylic primer to cover the rest of the bare metal after welding on metal and grinding it down such as where Andy patched the wheel wells.On the lip where the metal joins to be welded you use the Weld Thru primer any areas tat don't get metal to metal contact don't waste your Weld Thru primer as it is not for that purpose and should only be used on the areas you will be welding to. |
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 11:21AM |
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To answer your question Scott how do you protect the areas of metal that you can't easily get to after welding and the answer is to get an undercoating gun with a wand and put POR 15 or equivalent in it and spray the inside through an access hole somewhere and move and rotate the wand so that all the metal will get coated. That is the best way to protect those areas.
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srwith
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Joined: 04-September-2010 Location: North E. FL Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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Posted: 28-January-2012 at 6:52PM |
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Yea, that was one thing I figured would have to be done is the undercoating. You know jeff I just plain forgot about the cowl. I can patch that with some of the scrap from the damaged parts I have. I have been going over some old post seeing what other members have done. Seeing things like you, andrew's, malcolm's and other members, I tell ya I am Impressed with all the info that is here. TO ALL I TIP MY HAT. Ok, the tearjerking
 is over. I am not sure when I will be home due to one week in Nevada no work, moved to South CA to look for work and another week nothing truck broke down here in California. Two week's + no work. Trucking driving suck's . I am shooting for Bristol with a car. It may be a shot in the dark but if I bust ass it may happen.
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two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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Psquare75
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Posted: 29-January-2012 at 3:01AM |
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Panel area to be repaired and patch panel coated with Picklex 20 over the patch, both sides, and the panel.
 I'll zinc the backside of the piece before welding. For the side of that cowl, I'll be honest, I'd probably be lazy and do an overlap weld. It's not visible at all when the car is together. Who cares?* Once welded, I break out the Zero Rust and spray gun.  Thinned out it flows nicely. Load up the welded seams front and back. Use a plastic spray bottle with a wand attachment if needed. If you did an overlap as opposed to a butt weld, seam seal it after this and call it a day. *If it's a high dollar car, or you're a perfectionist, that changes things.
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Paul
77 XR7 460/C6/3.00:1 *SOLD* 78 XR7 523/C6/3.5:1 79 F100 460/TKO500/3.25:1 'I also have some left over potatoes-I understand you can generate electricity from them'- Foote500 |
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72BlackGTS
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Posted: 29-January-2012 at 3:59AM |
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I've replaced the cowl sections, both inner and outer, on a few Falcons and Mustangs and I've used the POR-15 on all the panels except where welding was going to be done. On the seams and pnich welds I use a brush on pinch weld primer from ROGO on the bare steel. It goes on like a paste but when heat from welding occurs it flows around the spots and then goes back to the paste as it cools. When I POR-15 the panels I try and do both sides of each panel to try and stop the dampness.
After all this is done and a few days after paint has been laid, the areas like the cowl, inner doors basically any place where the are areas that cant be treated to stave off dampness, I spray a 50/50 mix of tranny fluid and orange (Dexcool) antifreeze from a small hand pump sprayer for pestisides. The antifreeze has corrosion inhibitors and will help the light transmission oil "creep" into the tight pinch welds and seams. Leave it sit a few days, wash off the residue and you're done. Car wash soap and water removes the residue easily.
Now the disclaimer: Use the above info at your descretion. It may not be a "professional" way to stop corrosion but it works.
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Ron
1978 LTD II Sport-Green 2003 HD Road King Classic 100th Anniversary |
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unlovedford
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Posted: 29-January-2012 at 11:43AM |
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Great info.
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Joe
1972 Mom's Squire Wagon 1972 Torino Wagon 1976 Torino 1968 Cougar XR7-First batch 1972 Torino 460 1989 BroncoII/Jeeps/Titanimous Popeye and Brutus (Rams) |
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Eliteman76
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Posted: 29-January-2012 at 2:29PM |
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Jeff-
I used a regular primer for that, not the weld through. I just used a hell of a lot of the weld through, as I did my roof, the quarter, fender repairs. |
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Andrew:GTS.ORG admin, '72 Q code 5 speed Restomod Pondering: #99Problems |
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Posted: 29-January-2012 at 3:39PM |
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well you musta used it to excess cause I could get several collision repair jobs out of one can
your only suppose to spray it on areas where your gonna weld which is usally no wider then 1 inch.If you have bare meal from grinding and cleaning rust off either prime it with ecth primer or in the case of classic cars like to use a product like POR 15 and put the Weld Thru on just the area which makes contact where i'm gonna have welds
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srwith
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Posted: 29-January-2012 at 4:38PM |
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Great input guys. I need to make a notebook so I won't lose this info. It is going to help this dummy alot. If more want to weigh in like to hear from you. Keep this topic going for others like me.
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two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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srwith
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Posted: 06-February-2012 at 3:11AM |
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From here go to the new Autobody and Paint(Q%A) section
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two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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Posted: 06-February-2012 at 10:43AM |
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hey look dummies can read and type,whoda thunk.
 well you are the dummy that titled this thread,just sayin
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srwith
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Posted: 13-February-2012 at 10:40AM |
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Well Jeff I guess you are doing all the
 and . just sayin
Edited by srwith - 13-February-2012 at 10:41AM |
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two loves, torino's and bike riding. drive and ride safe.
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72BlackGTS
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Posted: 16-March-2012 at 3:32AM |
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I also found this searching the I-CAR site on weld through primers and welding. It may help someone here along the line.
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Ron
1978 LTD II Sport-Green 2003 HD Road King Classic 100th Anniversary |
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