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ninoford View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08-May-2015 at 4:21AM
Ok I just had my 351c overhauled, and added  elderbrock performer rpm cam, heads, air gap intake with a holley 4160 750 cfm carb, Headman headers with 2 1/2 pipes running into some magnaflows. Had a pertronix billet dizzy but just put the stock one back on thinking it was a timing issue. Problem is I have no power after 4000 rpm, It just stops going and wont climb anymore, sometimes it will pop through the exhaust but not always.  I was thinking it was a timing issue but same nothing seems to change no matter what I do with the timing. Fuel pressure gauge on the carb says 6-7, checked for vacuum leaks and nothing. Been dealing with this for the last 2 weeks and cant seem to figure it out. Can anyone help me out. What else can it be, what else can I check? Oh if I manually shift the auto tranny I can go over 4000 rpm only in 1st, but not in 2nd or 3rd. Don't know if that mean anything... Please help
 
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  Does it run good at idle and have good power to 4K? Any other issues like overheating or ?? A few things to look at, off the top of my head. 1) Valve springs, low tension or re-used valve springs could reduce the rpm range due to valve float. When you had engine overhauled did they give you cam and valvespring specs like installed height with open & closed pressures? 2) Ignition system, I just went through mine after finding my Crane HI-6 was starting to $hit the bed after 3K rpm, it would gain rpm but stutter and miss along the way. 3) Could also possibly be too lean carb tune or fuel pressure reduction once engine gets to 4K, possibly vapor lock contributes to the issue. 4) Cam timing, cam being installed too far advanced, rather unlikely due to other issues like valves being too close or hitting pistons, but that depends on piston height, gasket thickness and valve lift. Try and check the basics, maybe something simple as a loose wire, a coil wired backwards or a coil that is on it's way out. Good luck and keep us posted.

Edited by aquartlow - 08-May-2015 at 4:56AM
www.supermotors.net/22468
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^^^ X2
JOHN
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SO MUCH it could be!
^^^^^3
 
Go with what Todd said first
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ninoford View Drop Down
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Thanks for the quick reply, Yes it runs great at idle, starts right up, revs up 5000 perfect in park. It does not over heat, The heads I got like new, but were used. I am thinking that maybe the valves weren't adjusted correctly, or like you said weak springs. They had been sitting in a shop for about 5 years. My engine builder put it back together so I figured he adjusted them correctly or would have told me if they were bad.  I need to check that. I also just ordered an air fuel ratio gauge to see if im lean or rich...im no master mechanic just a regular dyi guy but the plugs look normal to me. Hopefully that will give me some more clues.  Ill keep yall posted
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with the plugs out... do a compression test.
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As noted, there are so many things it could possibly be. Do you know if the vacuum secondaries are opening on that Holley 4160? I had a similar experience with one once, it gave me the same symptoms you described. 
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Originally posted by ninoford ninoford wrote:

  starts right up, revs up 5000 perfect in park. 


Guys, would the car be doing this if there was something wrong with the engine?
Confused
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Originally posted by russosborne russosborne wrote:

Originally posted by ninoford ninoford wrote:

  starts right up, revs up 5000 perfect in park. 


Guys, would the car be doing this if there was something wrong with the engine?
Confused
Russ

 
A ("free-wheeling") running engine will presumably be in great running condition when no load is in place, but when one is imposed like placing the trans in gear, driving up an incline or while towing, something that is in the least bit antiquated will be revealed. Here is a cause/effect of weak valve springs:
 
Although the description above for weak/bad springs sounds like the culprit for the "break-up" issue, other potential problem makers need to be checked off as well, like fuel pressure, ignition and carb tune. I would definitely check everything I could before opening the engine up, but once that bridge is crossed, check EVRYTHING possible including but not limited to cam timing, lifter and cam wear, valve spring tension(of course), gasket sealing condition, distributor end or side play and etc. A simple test with a vacuum gauge and along with a compression test(as Regul8r advised) will give a decent "look" at the overall health of an engine. Sorry, it wasn't a "yes" or "no" answer. 
www.supermotors.net/22468
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same type of issue as when you put a 351W cam in a 302 motor and don't use the 351W firing order.
It will run, will rev up and even somewhat drive but not have any power or go higher in the rpms when driving...
 
ASK US HOW WE KNOW! lol
I did it on a motor before and then we fixed one on Alex's buddy's car in Louisville!
Both idled, ran and even drove just low on power and not able to run up the Rs in gear.
 
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Well I am f#$%^&! did a compression test, numbers were everywhere,  a few 60s, 85, 75 100, etc. Basically my overhaul was worthless and I am back to square one. Cry  I really cant go back to my mechanic right now, he's going through chemo and is in bad shape. Guess I do the full rebuild now, anyone know of any good shops in the Dallas area??
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Originally posted by ninoford ninoford wrote:

Well I am f#$%^&! did a compression test, numbers were everywhere,  a few 60s, 85, 75 100, etc. Basically my overhaul was worthless and I am back to square one. Cry  I really cant go back to my mechanic right now, he's going through chemo and is in bad shape. Guess I do the full rebuild now, anyone know of any good shops in the Dallas area??

Gas Monkey Garage, of course.
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Don't take it to the Misfits Garage, I saw the episode where the old Tom put together an engine out of random mismatched parts (even fat Tom knew it was bad Thumbs Down).
What exactly went into your overhaul? Was this a complete re-build with new everything, or just adding headers, intake , etc.?
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Originally posted by ninoford ninoford wrote:

Well I am f#$%^&! did a compression test, numbers were everywhere,  a few 60s, 85, 75 100, etc. Basically my overhaul was worthless and I am back to square one. Cry  I really cant go back to my mechanic right now, he's going through chemo and is in bad shape. Guess I do the full rebuild now, anyone know of any good shops in the Dallas area??
 
Sounds like you had a bad day for sure. With PSI in the 60's and that much spread in readings, I wouldn't think the engine would run "great" at idle. At least you found the issue, even though it's not an EZ or inexpensive fix. Good luck.  
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Ok, a few dumb questions.
I ask because with the numbers all over the place like that it sounds like there is something not right with the test. 
 
Did you prop the carb wide open and do the check with all the plugs out?
 
Roll the motor over multiple times with the gage in place so the pressure reads after a few rotations?
 
Screw in gage with a good rubber seal?
 
IF so then there are some other tests to check things.
 
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Update, did a leak down test after the compression test and air is blowing out of the dipstick tube. Only checked one cylinder but had 40 psi loss...
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Originally posted by ninoford ninoford wrote:

Well I am f#$%^&! did a compression test, numbers were everywhere,  a few 60s, 85, 75 100, etc. Basically my overhaul was worthless and I am back to square one. Cry  I really cant go back to my mechanic right now, he's going through chemo and is in bad shape. Guess I do the full rebuild now, anyone know of any good shops in the Dallas area??
 
 
I had my engine re-built (complete long block assembly) at Blaine's Motor Supply in Dallas, TX, but had it installed at McSwain garage in Garland, TX. Eldon owns the shop and is a real nice, fair, guy! They work on ALOT of older model cars. They weren't able to save my original heads, but the block is original to the car.
 
 
 
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Quick and dirty test to see if compression is up on all cylinders. Pull the coil wire off. Prop the carb all the way open and crank the engine for about 15 seconds solid with the plugs IN. Does it crank evenly? Does it crank evenly for a moment, then "dip/drop" then return to even cranking, then "dip/drop" again during continuous cranking? If it cranks evenly, then all cylinders are within range of each other. perhaps not at a normal range, but within themselves nonetheless. When you have a cylinder or 2 that deviate drastically from the others, the lower compression on that cylinder will cause a speed change in the rotation when on the compression cycle on that cylinder, resulting in the momentary "dip/drop" in sound and speed. If all cylinders are low, I would suspect head gaskets leaking under load.
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Do you have adjustable rockers? If so, MAKE SURE your valves are adjusted correctly. A couple of tight valves could leak down compression and make you readings go everywhere.

Just don't ask how I know this, OK?
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