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Anderslober View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24-July-2022 at 6:22AM
Ok guys. A few thoughts. I may have to pull the engine from my 72 GTS.
Can the oil pan be changed without taking the engine out? It looks like it can be done….the oil pan is very rusty(almost through) in a couple of places.
I like the stock exhaust manifolds….but, IF aftermarket manifolds were considered…which ones recommended? As stock locking as possible….
The exhaust manifold studs dont have much meat on them and one stud is busted…almost impossible to remove studs with engine/manifolds in car.
(Older picture below)👍

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 7:08AM
 i had to repair (correctly) a leak in my pan, i just pulled the engine out, welded a patch on the pan, removed manifolds, cam and painted it and dropped it back in Wink
JOHN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 78FordLtd2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 9:25AM
Pulling the engine is probably easier than trying to do a repair job on the oil pan in the car. If I had a hoist so I can properly get underneath...maybe not.

My next problem I'd have after pulling the engine is keeping my wallet sealed shut. Because once the engine is out and on a stand, everything is now so much easier! Lol!

Temptations galore!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg73Oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 10:34AM
Piece of cake!
Though, I can't speak about other engines, but it was very easy to remove the oil pan from my 351W without removing the engine or disengaging any of the steering or sway bar.
I removed the bottom nuts of the engine mount bolts (The ones that go through the crossmember), and then jacked up one side of the engine enough to remove the bolt (you have to do this because the weight of the engine on the bolt makes it impossible to remove) - then continued to a height to put a block of 2x4 under the engine mount.  Did the same for the other side.
For the jack, I used a block of wood that I fashioned to have a lip that fit in the channel of the oil pan.
What made reinstalling the pan a "snap", was using the more expensive one-piece oil pan gasket!!!
After cleaning the gasket surfaces, I used a dab of RTV in the corners.
GKF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 12:08PM
pretty sure you need to drop the oil pump into the pan to get it out?
if so, the oil pump driveshaft will come with it. could be a little tricky getting it back up,
just don't tighten the oil pump bolts until the driveshaft is all the way in to the distributor

and there is no 1 piece gasket for a Cleveland, if that's what you have



Edited by Rockatansky - 24-July-2022 at 12:26PM
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Anderslober View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 6:28PM
Ok, thanks guys. I think in this instance, it may be ‘easier’ to take out the engine(351cj/cleveland). The engine does still have its ‘engine hoist ears/brackets’……so should be ok. Leave tranny in?
Those manifold studs are scaring me a bit. I would like them changed. Tough job dat!
Now I gotta get an engine stand!👍
The engine runs really good…..but, it needs to be dolled up a bit. I wont do a full rebuild, just oil pan, freeze plugs, gaskets and paint.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 7:28PM
Leave the trans in with the torque converter. After the engine is out, check to see how much wiggle there is on the converter. At the very least change the front seal on the trans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-July-2022 at 8:17PM
Is there enough play to wedge out the engine with tranny/clutch unbolted? (4spd car)
The engine will have to be pulled slightly forward and up…correct?
(Car is a 4sp/351cj)


Edited by Anderslober - 25-July-2022 at 8:32PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-July-2022 at 3:06AM
Always change the front and rear seals, those are common leaks.

The engine can come out easily, just remove things from the front which are easy to do quickly, and watch the radiator closely as you pull it out. Two people make it much easier and safer for not bumping into things going in or out.
Don
73 Ranchero Sport "72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-July-2022 at 5:13AM
The TV shows usually pull the transmission with the engine. Me, on a four speed, I would pull the trans first and remove the engine with the bell intact. Especially if doing it alone.  You can rent a jack for the transmission unless you are on steroids. 

Edited by handsofstone - 26-July-2022 at 3:10PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-July-2022 at 11:43AM
You would need a good adjustable engine pulling device to control the tilt of the engine and trans together. It's very hard to do that by manually setting chains to get it angled well. My friend and I have done that more than once. But I bought one of those tilt devices from Harbor Freight in the 80's, and we  loved that, it's way better than just using chains.
Don
73 Ranchero Sport "72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2022 at 6:36AM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

You would need a good adjustable engine pulling device to control the tilt of the engine and trans together. It's very hard to do that by manually setting chains to get it angled well. My friend and I have done that more than once. But I bought one of those tilt devices from Harbor Freight in the 80's, and we  loved that, it's way better than just using chains.
Or, you rig a come-along at the front along with the chains. as the engine comes up, you tighten the come-along to tilt the engine. 
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
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How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2022 at 6:59AM
Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

You would need a good adjustable engine pulling device to control the tilt of the engine and trans together. It's very hard to do that by manually setting chains to get it angled well. My friend and I have done that more than once. But I bought one of those tilt devices from Harbor Freight in the 80's, and we  loved that, it's way better than just using chains.
Or, you rig a come-along at the front along with the chains. as the engine comes up, you tighten the come-along to tilt the engine. 


True, or like the old days you get two or three others to help manhandle the engine and trans. You end up rubbing the engine on most of the radiator support and firewall etc, plus dragging the trans across the top of the header panel etc.
Don
73 Ranchero Sport "72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-July-2022 at 11:07AM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Bird Big Bird wrote:

Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

You would need a good adjustable engine pulling device to control the tilt of the engine and trans together. It's very hard to do that by manually setting chains to get it angled well. My friend and I have done that more than once. But I bought one of those tilt devices from Harbor Freight in the 80's, and we  loved that, it's way better than just using chains.
Or, you rig a come-along at the front along with the chains. as the engine comes up, you tighten the come-along to tilt the engine. 


True, or like the old days you get two or three others to help manhandle the engine and trans. You end up rubbing the engine on most of the radiator support and firewall etc, plus dragging the trans across the top of the header panel etc.
You forgot to mention a Great Lakes-sized pond of transmission fluid that flows out of the tailshaft...
And breaking the speedo cable that you forgot to disconnect... 
"What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind."
Randy
1979 T-Bird
2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD
How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eliteman76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-July-2022 at 9:04AM
I'll be honest...I've pulled the GTS hood off my 72 by myself but it's a heck of a lot easier with 2 people.

If it was me, I would be just pulling the engine out.
Same time, you can also do all the seals, and look over everything else. Clean and repaint as needed to refreshen things. A lot easier on a stand instead of inside the engine bay.

Andrew: Long time Torino guy and GTS.ORG admin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 8:19AM
The mayhem started today! I drained the radiator and took it out. Fan and power steering is out. The alternator bolt is jammed…cant move it…ideas?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 8:21AM
All wiring disconnected.
Now……if I want to disconnect the engine at the bell housing…will there be enough room to wiggle the engine of the main shaft? And lift it out..?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 1:34PM
manual transmission or automatic?

if manual you drop the transmission out the bottom and remove the bellhousing separately.

if auto you disconnect the tq converter from the flexplate and the converter stays with the transmission. re-installation is imperative that the converter is fully seated into the transmission just as it was when you disconnected the converter from the flex, and the converter needs to be free to wiggle when the engine and transmission are reunited or the trans pump will be destroyed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 1:51PM
Ditto, for the automatic be slow with separating the engine from it. Try to notice how much front to back play the torque converter has with just the four nuts removed, that has to be the same when installing it back together. So measure how far back the TC is when you get the engine out, keep it pushed back until you can measure that. The when you reinstall it, you can check to be sure that movement is there.

If it's not, the TC will be jammed against the crank, which will ruin the crank thrust bearings or the trans front pump.
Don
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73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears for sale later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 7:38PM
Car is a 4sp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 7:39PM
I thought you guys said this would be easy!🤠👍🍻
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-August-2022 at 11:12PM
I would pull the transmission first. Then the  bellhousing. The  clutch will clear without any trouble and you will have fewer headaches if doing things by yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2022 at 5:52AM
I cant get the alternator off. The bolt is rusted solid inside the alternator mounting channel.
When I turn the bolt, the alternator just turns with it. So, only a half-turn is possible….

 I have squirted every known remedy in and around the bolt channel….
I dont want to snap that bolt…any ideas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2022 at 7:14AM
Maybe an impact driver?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2022 at 7:24AM
If it is frozen in the aluminum sleeve, try turning it enough so the open slot is facing up. Had the same problem on a 351 last month. A good six point socket had it moving in tiny increments. I was able to replace the 1/4" air pump belt that was mickied for the alternator prior to me owning it. 
   If your bolt rotates the sleeve and alternator, take measurements and cut the bolt mid way. Or try holding sleeve with a small pipe wrench and work the bolt with a breaker bar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anderslober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2022 at 8:36AM
The bolt turns just fine in its engine screw in hole. I can see it turn through spacer gap. Spacer spins free on bolt.
The bolt is ‘frozen’ inside the alternator bolt channel. Only half-turn..(until alternator hits engine block in each direction).
I have whacked it, impacted it, drenched it……it wont budge.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stanman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2022 at 12:15PM
You can try heating and tapping on the alternator to get the bolt to move but unfortunately you might have to sacrifice the alternator  by breaking it off. I think the engine might come out with it attached then you'd have more time to let penetrating oil do its job?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-August-2022 at 9:34PM
Originally posted by stanman stanman wrote:

You can try heating and tapping on the alternator to get the bolt to move but unfortunately you might have to sacrifice the alternator  by breaking it off. I think the engine might come out with it attached then you'd have more time to let penetrating oil do its job?

I agree and was going to suggest the same.
Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-August-2022 at 5:49AM
Originally posted by Anderslober Anderslober wrote:

I cant get the alternator off. The bolt is rusted solid inside the alternator mounting channel.
When I turn the bolt, the alternator just turns with it. So, only a half-turn is possible….

 I have squirted every known remedy in and around the bolt channel….
I dont want to snap that bolt…any ideas?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-August-2022 at 11:02AM
How about the risky trick of hooking up a battery cable to the bolt, and through the block, very briefly? I've read of that for some seized water pump bolts etc, I think they even make a portable machine that does it.
Don
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73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V 3.70 gears for sale later.
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