Question about some odd rust
Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Model Specific Forum
Forum Name: General Automotive Technical Discussion
Forum Description: Technical Automotive discussion of anything not specific to mid-size Ford/Merc
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=16450
Printed Date: 19-April-2024 at 7:06PM
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Topic: Question about some odd rust
Posted By: Don V.
Subject: Question about some odd rust
Date Posted: 03-August-2017 at 11:55PM
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I spent most of the night working on the new truck. It looks like the engine compartment has never been cleaned. I'm dealing with a lot of small, annoying issues but the rust on the power steering pump has me stumped. I've called the problem rust but that may be wrong. It could be some type of corrosion. The best way I can describe what the pump looks like is, "a pastry with a thick, hard, glossy icing." It has a fragile look to it like one of the hollow, chocolate Easter Bunnies. Break a piece off and half the side will break apart in pieces. I don't think that will happen. It just looks like it. Additionally, it looks like a build up rather than wearing away like typical rust. There is no spalling or breaking up. Just the opposite. There is almost no appearance of any sharp edges like the surface is growing and filling in negative space. I hope this is descriptive enough and makes sense. There are some small areas that look like typical rust but other than that the only thing typical is the color. The pump does have the color of being covered in rust. I'm just guessing but I assume what has happened is a result of power steering fluid and heat. There's no indication of any leaks but the truck is over 15 years old. Has anyone seen something like this before? Can the pump be cleaned up or should it just be replaced? Would it even be accepted as a core trade in? The closest I've seen anything to this is penetrating oil on exhaust manifolds. Don
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Replies:
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 04-August-2017 at 3:05AM
 sounds odd from your description! i think this is a perfect opportunity to work on your pic posting skills---- because i what to see this! maybe i'm just still half asleep yet reading this, but sounds weird ------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 05-August-2017 at 10:45AM
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John, I'm going to try for some pictures but no guarantees. Best bet will be for me to use someone else's computer again.Don
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Posted By: 72FordGTS
Date Posted: 07-August-2017 at 2:58PM
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If you can't do it with you computer Don, you can email me the pictures, and I will post them for you. ------------- Vince 1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car GTS.org Admin |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 08-August-2017 at 10:55AM
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Vince, Thank you but I can't upload to my email either. I've got to solve this but every option has its "that sucks" bonus to it. I'm think of a inexpensive tablet for doing this stuff and never be concerned about who or how it gets hijacked.
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Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 22-September-2017 at 10:19AM
 Microsoft has finally screwed all 3 computers so this is the best I can do to get a picture up. The shine is lost but the rust or corrosion can still be seen. The truck was Zbarted and I wonder if that is what caused this because they just sprayed everything. I couldn't get anything with my camera that wasn't a blur from the PS pump. This is an exhaust manifold. FYI, Helm said they are doing whatever they can to keep WIN 10 away from IDS. |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 22-September-2017 at 12:06PM
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Is that an exhaust manifold??? Looks like scale rust from here. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 22-September-2017 at 5:33PM
Yes, it's an exhaust manifold. Scale rust? It could be but I always thought of scale rust as being like fish scales where the metal erodes away in layers. I wish I could get a better picture but if the picture is taken too far away you can't make it out. Too close and it blurs. This is all solid and hard and there is no scaling to be seen. It's shiney which can't be seen well in the picture but you can see at the bend the rust\corrosion stops and the manifold changes color to the typical orange rust color and leaves the rust dust on your hands. Where the pitted, barnacle look is at nothing is left on my hands when handling. It's hard, smooth and clean (looking). It's on a lot of components which I didn't start to get a good look at until I pulled the PS pump. I'm thinking it was caused by something that got on the engine and reacted with heat but it's nothing like anything I've seen before. It's why I wondered about the Ziebart treatment which was sprayed on without much thought to how much or what it got on. The sticky, tar like stuff is on everything and can't be avoided. Whatever the cause it's more detrimental than the typical rust. |
Big Bird wrote:Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 22-September-2017 at 5:44PM
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hmm, sounds chemical to me???
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 23-September-2017 at 2:52AM
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I do a lot of work at a site where they spray the roads with a salt mixture that has an additive that makes the salt stick to the roads. It also makes the salt stick to your car. I think it's a beet juice extract... Anyways, our work wan looks like that on the underside, chassis, exhaust, suspension are all rotting off. Front springs as well. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: stanman
Date Posted: 23-September-2017 at 6:53AM
| Yeah from your picture it looks like a typical salt belt exhaust manifold. Salt keeps eating through the metal in layers until a hole appears. Look for a better one if possible. |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 23-September-2017 at 4:17PM
"Beet juice" is a new one to me and I'd tend to agree with you except this is only where there is a lot of heat. That's something I couldn't originally see until I started taking the truck apart and did some cleaning. What rust there is to areas like the springs and chassis is typical unlike this. The one thing that heat hasn't effected is the SS exhaust and the aluminum engine components. Although it's not limited to cast parts that's where it's the worst. I'm convinced this has something to do with the Ziebart or something else that got sprayed under the hood at some time. Like John adds, "chemical." It's odd how it seems to have encased the parts. Stanman, I lived most of my life in the rustbelt and this isn't the typical salt effect. I've never heard of any salt additives used here to explain it. The trucks entire life has been here also so it's not an imported effect. |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 14-October-2017 at 3:41AM
| I started getting the motor ready to pull yesterday and I got a good look at the block with everything off the motor and the front clip off. Around the passenger side motor mount the block looked bad with this corrosion or whatever it is. I started poking at it with a phillips head screwdriver and it went right through the block like it was a hollow, chocolate Easter bunny. That was a first. |
Posted By: californiajohnny
Date Posted: 14-October-2017 at 3:55AM
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what?????
------------- JOHN 74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE 74 VETTE CUSTOM 90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED 77 CELICA CUSTOM 75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED 79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED 75 VEGA V6 5 SPD 70 CHEV C10 P/U 68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION |
Posted By: 72GTS351CJ
Date Posted: 14-October-2017 at 4:15AM
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So the screwdriver went through the side of the block itself? Or maybe the freeze out plug? ------------- 72GTS Clint Eastwood Special |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 14-October-2017 at 5:48AM
| Right through the block. When I was letting my buddy work on the truck here we knew the problem was either a cracked block or blown head gasket. We hoped for the head gasket but I'd guess now it was the block. Obviously something extremely unusual happened. It went through something, somewhere or something intentionally malicious was done to the vehicle. |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 14-October-2017 at 10:25AM
| I've done some searches for the cause of weak, brittle blocks and other various key words and a consistent cause is heat. Discussed are engines that are heavily covered in grease and oil or "other" preventing heat from radiating from the block. As I've said, this engine was covered with rust prevention. Everything was. Sounds like an "old wives tale," or "urban myth" until now. |
Posted By: Big Bird
Date Posted: 14-October-2017 at 12:21PM
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Never seen a block rust thru before. Please indulge us with pictures. ------------- "What we do in full frontal view, is more honest than your cleaned-up mind." Randy 1979 T-Bird 2005 F-150 STX RCSB 4.6, 3.55 LSD How the Heck does a REGULAR CAB SHORTBED weigh over 5200 pounds? |
Posted By: Don V.
Date Posted: 15-October-2017 at 7:56AM
As it is right now I don't think a picture will show much. I'm getting some work done on the coyote which I will know more about tomorrow and for now storage of the 4.2l in the truck is convenient. When it gets pulled I'm going to rebuild it with a new block and I will get some pictures for you then. I still have picture problems and just went 2 weeks without my IDS thanks to MS. (long story but if it wasn't for a hidden drive and an image file it would have been gone for good) I want to see where I went through. Water Jacket? I was asked about the wrong or mixing antifreezes, orange and green. I've read some stern warnings about this but I don't know. |